Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread - Page 11 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 01-19-2011   #251
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Thrill_House View Post
Heres another question for you, will my DVA-9861 be compatable with it, meaning will it funtion in much the same way it does now when hooked up to the h701, ie CD/DVD audio going over the toslink and all other audio sources such as IPOD/Tuner/CD changer be sent over the ainet and also will I still be able to control balance/fade/subwoofer control from the headunit?
Still no answer?
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Old 01-19-2011   #252
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
the new alpine is able to have a center channel and with the assailable inputs like the ms8 i dont see why the new alpine piece wont be able to surpass what the ms8 dose
PLII Music or any other multichannel codec were not develop exclusively for the unique car environment the way the the MS-8's special Logic7 processing was. I'm sure the H800 does something to augment the based decoding but nothing like the MS-8 does. It's specialty seems to be more geared toward stereo with its Audessy Imprint tech.
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Old 01-19-2011   #253
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Unless the Alpine unit has dramatically improved their auto tune function (Imprint), it shouldn't be compared to the MS-8. It should be compared to other manual tune units.
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Old 01-19-2011   #254
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
PLII Music or any other multichannel codec were not develop exclusively for the unique car environment the way the the MS-8's special Logic7 processing was. I'm sure the H800 does something to augment the based decoding but nothing like the MS-8 does. It's specialty seems to be more geared toward stereo with its Audessy Imprint tech.
I can see your argument with this but there is also the other great argument of weather to use a center at all
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Old 01-19-2011   #255
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by rain27 View Post
Unless the Alpine unit has dramatically improved their auto tune function (Imprint), it shouldn't be compared to the MS-8. It should be compared to other manual tune units.
i think your totally wrong if you use the imprint in 3 way mode it works amazing, now it isnt perfect either i had to play with it for hours to find out how to manipulate my xover so that it sounded the way i wanted especially on sub bass as well the lack of adjustable after imprinting , but with the ms8 i had to do many of the same things and the sub control wasn't a true sub control and i found i couldn't get the adjustment to work well in my cars, although you could eq after tuning, hopefully if the alpine piece works you can change time corection xovers and eq after the tune so you can make all the fine adjustments you need to after the fact, casue lets face it a computer assumes what you want to hear but it cant know exactly what to change they get confused with stuff too just like us
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Old 01-19-2011   #256
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Thrill_House View Post
Still no answer?
according to everyone i talked to you will be able to use your deck for basic control as well as switching between processor presets
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Old 01-19-2011   #257
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
I can see your argument with this but there is also the other great argument of weather to use a center at all
I'm not aware of that argument.

This is not a room in a house, it's an offset listening position of which each driver has it's own unique space that mangles the sound in it's own way. And at more then one source per side from multiple speaker location.

Last edited by t3sn4f2; 01-19-2011 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 01-19-2011   #258
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
I'm not aware of that argument.

This is not a room in a house, it's an offset listening position of which each driver has it's own unique space that mangles the sound in it's own way. And at more then one source per side from multiple speaker location.
but in a house your not totaly aligned either thats why they make these auto tuners to time correct and level adjust for where you are sitting in a room, yes you are closer to the speakers in a car but when you set up a denon auto tune system you dont have to be in the center for it to work so adapting it for a car isnt far fetched
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Old 01-19-2011   #259
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
i think your totally wrong if you use the imprint in 3 way mode it works amazing, now it isnt perfect either i had to play with it for hours to find out how to manipulate my xover so that it sounded the way i wanted especially on sub bass as well the lack of adjustable after imprinting , but with the ms8 i had to do many of the same things and the sub control wasn't a true sub control and i found i couldn't get the adjustment to work well in my cars, although you could eq after tuning, hopefully if the alpine piece works you can change time corection xovers and eq after the tune so you can make all the fine adjustments you need to after the fact, casue lets face it a computer assumes what you want to hear but it cant know exactly what to change they get confused with stuff too just like us
The MS-8 allows for tuning the eq after auto tune as well (31 bands). And if the MS-8 gets the time alignment correct (which it does), why would you want to tweak it? And why would you want to adjust the crossovers after the auto tune when you could do it prior?
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Old 01-19-2011   #260
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
PLII Music or any other multichannel codec were not develop exclusively for the unique car environment the way the the MS-8's special Logic7 processing was. I'm sure the H800 does something to augment the based decoding but nothing like the MS-8 does. It's specialty seems to be more geared toward stereo with its Audessy Imprint tech.
The H800 does not use Audyssey tech this time around, this is our new ImprintEQ developed by our Japan HQ team. It has significantly more resolution, especially in the mid and lower bass, plus it has user definable/adjustable target curves.

The H800 also has Euphony, which acts similarly to Logic7 in that it can create surround sound from a 2ch source.
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Old 01-19-2011   #261
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain27 View Post
Unless the Alpine unit has dramatically improved their auto tune function (Imprint), it shouldn't be compared to the MS-8. It should be compared to other manual tune units.
We have, significantly. See above. Plus, now we offer manual adjustment after the tune to allow users to further customize past even their self-defined target curves to shift the center image, add some low end shelving, etc etc ... its has quite a bit more power than our previous renditions of Imprint ever had.
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Old 01-19-2011   #262
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
We have, significantly. See above. Plus, now we offer manual adjustment after the tune to allow users to further customize past even their self-defined target curves to shift the center image, add some low end shelving, etc etc ... its has quite a bit more power than our previous renditions of Imprint ever had.
This is great news!
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Old 01-19-2011   #263
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
according to everyone i talked to you will be able to use your deck for basic control as well as switching between processor presets
Ai-Net units will control Presets, nothing more. This is a new platform different from the H700/701, more like the F#1 sans firewire ... so the control lingo is a bit different. For most users, this control will be sufficient after the initial tune is complete and a few presets are saved. For the tweakos amongst us, the RUX can be tucked away and used as necessary to adjust on the fly.
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Old 01-19-2011   #264
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
hopefully if the alpine piece works you can change time corection xovers and eq after the tune so you can make all the fine adjustments you need to after the fact, casue lets face it a computer assumes what you want to hear but it cant know exactly what to change they get confused with stuff too just like us
Exactly the feedback we got after some years of Imprint in the field ... the computer was assuming too much. Now, we are giving you guys the ability to adjust the target curve and let the computer voice it to your preference.

For example, if you find a tune that just sounds amazing .. you can save that target curve on the computer. Then, go tune another car with that same "target" curve you saved .. basically proving that your target is rock solid. You can then save that as your "house/shop" curve that you'll voice all of your cars to sound like. This is going to be fun for the nitpicky tuners amongst us that can now create a standard "voicing" that they can set all of the cars they work on to sound like. Again, you can adjust from there to yours or your customers tastes .. but you'll find a good baseline that you know will work for you to simplify future tunes/installs.
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Old 01-19-2011   #265
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Ai-Net units will control Presets, nothing more. This is a new platform different from the H700/701, more like the F#1 sans firewire ... so the control lingo is a bit different. For most users, this control will be sufficient after the initial tune is complete and a few presets are saved. For the tweakos amongst us, the RUX can be tucked away and used as necessary to adjust on the fly.
When you say it "will control presets, nothing more "do you mean they won't control volume or source either .
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Old 01-19-2011   #266
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Your source is selected by the HU regardless, unless you are using the AUX+ via the second AI-NET jack on the H800. Still, I'd imagine that it would control that as well but I'll double confirm it.

Volume is obviously controlled.
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Old 01-20-2011   #267
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

filters are IIR type ?

what about analog part after the DACs?
are these driven by opamps or ics? is type of these disclosable?

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Old 01-20-2011   #268
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
The H800 does not use Audyssey tech this time around, this is our new ImprintEQ developed by our Japan HQ team. It has significantly more resolution, especially in the mid and lower bass, plus it has user definable/adjustable target curves.

The H800 also has Euphony, which acts similarly to Logic7 in that it can create surround sound from a 2ch source.
Nice! You guys might want to throw that into the product literature as a strong point, that should be a good selling point now a days with all the newer cars starting to have center channels built in.

Will the Imprint autotune for that multichannel mode as well, for all channels independently that is?

Last edited by t3sn4f2; 01-20-2011 at 06:56 AM..
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Old 01-20-2011   #269
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

I think it is pretty cool that Alpine is modeling this to help dealers/shops better serve their customers who are not into the nitty gritty details, but just want better sound; particularly, because at the same time they are not stripping away the ability for DIYers to do all their own nitpik tuning, themselves, with the very same equipment - NICE.

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Old 01-20-2011   #270
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
according to everyone i talked to you will be able to use your deck for basic control as well as switching between processor presets
So does that mean I will still be able to control balance, fade and sub control from the headunit?
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Old 01-21-2011   #271
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain27 View Post
The MS-8 allows for tuning the eq after auto tune as well (31 bands). And if the MS-8 gets the time alignment correct (which it does), why would you want to tweak it? And why would you want to adjust the crossovers after the auto tune when you could do it prior?
Is that why i had to re-tune my 2 cars at least 5 times each to get it to sound right so i could compete. the ms8 dose not always get time alignment correct the center and left imaging was always the issue i had, and to fix it i acctualy had to trick it by turning my head more than what it wanted me to just like in imprint, if you put the mic in different locations than what it tells you it will change the overall outcome of the tune
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Old 01-21-2011   #272
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Ai-Net units will control Presets, nothing more. This is a new platform different from the H700/701, more like the F#1 sans firewire ... so the control lingo is a bit different. For most users, this control will be sufficient after the initial tune is complete and a few presets are saved. For the tweakos amongst us, the RUX can be tucked away and used as necessary to adjust on the fly.
that's kind of what i was sayin and yes a rux is an amazing tuning tool, probably the one thing i like about the 701 over f#1 to be able to sit in your seat that your tuning for and just have a small controller in your hand making adjustments rather that having your laptop on your lap or console blocking speaker information its so nice and i find you can relax better while tuning by using it.
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Old 01-21-2011   #273
 
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
i think your totally wrong if you use the imprint in 3 way mode it works amazing, now it isnt perfect either i had to play with it for hours to find out how to manipulate my xover so that it sounded the way i wanted especially on sub bass as well the lack of adjustable after imprinting , but with the ms8 i had to do many of the same things and the sub control wasn't a true sub control and i found i couldn't get the adjustment to work well in my cars, although you could eq after tuning, hopefully if the alpine piece works you can change time corection xovers and eq after the tune so you can make all the fine adjustments you need to after the fact, casue lets face it a computer assumes what you want to hear but it cant know exactly what to change they get confused with stuff too just like us
I think this would be pretty hard to do. The auto tuning takes into account all the setting before it runs along with what it measures during. Then it calculates and create the final filter. If a slope, TA, or crossover point is changed after wouldn't it then have to go through the complete calibration process for each change each and every time (think of the time you'd have to wait each time you pressed a button)?

Or even more complicated, it might need to remeasure with the mics in order to compensate for the new acoustic phase change at the crossover point of the tweeter. You change the slope or crossover frequency, that then changes the phase of the tweeter at its crossover point, and then the TA need to be changed on the tweeter to realign it in that area. Or at least that is how I understand that it works, I could be wrong though.

Seems to me like EQ, tone, and saved curves would not affect things like this so they can be changed after cal without affecting the final filter.
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Old 01-21-2011   #274
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Seems like the more we hear from Jim about the new H800, the more intreiging the piece seems to be. Jim, when you get a moment, it would be great to have you weigh in on a thread a posted about the w910 a couple days ago:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...on-thread.html

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Old 01-21-2011   #275
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Seems like the more we hear from Jim about the new H800, the more intriguing the piece seems to be. Jim, when you get a moment, it would be great to have you weigh in on a thread a posted about the w910 a couple days ago:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...on-thread.html
Wish granted
jim walter is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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