Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread - Page 13 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 01-31-2011   #301
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

any info regarding the roadEQ?
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Old 01-31-2011   #302
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Question for Jim

I think i remember talking to our rep at ces and he was talking about strapping 2 h800 together to get 16 adjustable outputs, do you know if you can do this?
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Old 01-31-2011   #303
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikitaDrako View Post
any info regarding the roadEQ?
Hi Nikita,

The RoadEQ will use the tuning mic (needs to be kept plugged), that you place:
a) In-Ceiling above driver
b) Driver's visor
c) Rear View Mirror area

You'll measure the sound characteristics of the car parked and off with everything closed (or the condition you want it to EQ for).

1) Place the mic in the car
2) Measure the car
3) Set RoadEQ Level - 1/2/3

Jim
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Old 01-31-2011   #304
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearnzy View Post
Question for Jim

I think i remember talking to our rep at ces and he was talking about strapping 2 h800 together to get 16 adjustable outputs, do you know if you can do this?
No, this cannot be done with one RUX.

The only way to do this would be on the analog side of things, run two sets of RCA inputs to them and tune them independently. You could run this off any deck, but would have no adjustment of them other than varying the input level (volume) via your HU pre-outs.

Jim
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Old 01-31-2011   #305
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by minibox View Post
The H-650 was probably the worst car audio purchase I've ever made and, regrettably, soon followed by the second worst, the 9887 imprint combo.
From what I'm reading about this new unit it sounds like Alpine is finally getting it right but forgive me if I'm still a bit skeptical.
I can understand you were upset with the H650, being you were only allowed to have Imprint tuning, but how could you lump the 87 in there too? That was an awesome HU that had some of the best tuning options this side of a P9 and great SQ as well.
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Old 01-31-2011   #306
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Jim,
Thanks for all of your wisdom.
Could you please let us know to what extent the CDA-117 will be able to manipulate the h800 and if you can operate it without the controler?

Thanks for your help,
Gary
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Old 01-31-2011   #307
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpsvwino View Post
Jim,
Thanks for all of your wisdom.
Could you please let us know to what extent the CDA-117 will be able to manipulate the h800 and if you can operate it without the controler?

Thanks for your help,
Gary
Basic control - same as the other HUs. Yes, it can be run without a RUX, tuning will need to be done via PC. There is no need for the RUX unless you want to tweak on the fly.

if you do this. it'll help you. some sunny day ...
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Old 02-01-2011   #308
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Hi Nikita,

The RoadEQ will use the tuning mic (needs to be kept plugged), that you place:
a) In-Ceiling above driver
b) Driver's visor
c) Rear View Mirror area

You'll measure the sound characteristics of the car parked and off with everything closed (or the condition you want it to EQ for).

1) Place the mic in the car
2) Measure the car
3) Set RoadEQ Level - 1/2/3

Jim
Thanks Jim!
So the tunning mic won't be the one from ktx-100? And, from this positions positions I can notice that the roadEQ will be basically for the driver, right? can it be tunned for the car center, for an instance?
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Old 02-01-2011   #309
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikitaDrako View Post
Thanks Jim!
So the tunning mic won't be the one from ktx-100? And, from this positions positions I can notice that the roadEQ will be basically for the driver, right? can it be tunned for the car center, for an instance?
The first two positions focus on the driver, the rear view placement would be for the car center. You could theoretically place it near anywhere you wanted the EQ to be "focused".

The mic is different than the old H100 tuning mic. It is included with the H800 so you don't have to worry about purchasing anything.

Jim

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Old 02-01-2011   #310
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Jim,

Don't know if this has been asked, but how does the new 800 compare to the older holy grail F#1 H900?



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Old 02-01-2011   #311
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderplains View Post
Jim,

Don't know if this has been asked, but how does the new 800 compare to the older holy grail F#1 H900?
We are waiting until we get out Pre-Production piece in here with all the final tweaks in it before we benchmark it (SQ wise - Freq Resp, S/N, THD, etc) .. but we're looking pretty good on paper to stand side by side with it.

Tuning & System expansion, the H900 will have pretty much any and everything beat ... but for a real world system, I think we have something to hang out hats on with the new H800.

Jim
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Old 02-01-2011   #312
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Hmm, I'd like to know that as well, being an H900 user.

Edit: I was too late.

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Old 02-01-2011   #313
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Jim,

Will there be a 'limited edition Chrome and Yellow series"???

THEN YOU COULD "AUTOGRAPH" ONE FOR ME!!!!! hahahahaha

SIGNED ONES ALWAYS SOUND "BETTER" AND COST MORE.....lol
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Old 02-01-2011   #314
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
Jim,

Will there be a 'limited edition Chrome and Yellow series"???

THEN YOU COULD "AUTOGRAPH" ONE FOR ME!!!!! hahahahaha

SIGNED ONES ALWAYS SOUND "BETTER" AND COST MORE.....lol
You know we only do
black and yellow
black and yellow
black and yellow
black and yellow ....

You know how it is

if you do this. it'll help you. some sunny day ...
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Old 02-02-2011   #315
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Fo Sho!

Can you sign my THIN TYPE R WOOFERS?????

I Will pay you cause they will bump harder after you "autograph" them!!!! lololololol
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Old 02-02-2011   #316
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
Fo Sho!

Can you sign my THIN TYPE R WOOFERS?????

I Will pay you cause they will bump harder after you "autograph" them!!!! lololololol
Alright Booger .. we've got to get back to the topic at hand here ... don't want to close this guy down now do we

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Old 02-02-2011   #317
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

So, I just got my first sample of a fully functional PC App for the H800 this morning. We're at 99% right now with this .. and I have to say I like it.

Here's a couple of screen caps

CYA NOTE: This is still not final-final software, so the one you see might change when it comes to market.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cap3.jpg (56.1 KB, 272 views)
File Type: jpg cap1.jpg (63.3 KB, 652 views)

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Old 02-02-2011   #318
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

nice...

I see you guys are using multeq (assumedly for imprint)... curious if you considered using dynamic eq as well (iow: a volume dependent EQ that can be either done automatically via imprint or even custom tailored). I ask this question because there is another bit of hardware out there that allows for this in the car audio realm, however, that DSP's controller has to be used in order to control that feature via volume. The problem with that is simply having two different sources (much like would be the case if one only bought the h800/c800 and used it with a non-ai-net headunit). With the way the w910+h800 sync, the need for a separate volume control would be mitigated, and quite honestly would definitely be a HIGH factor in many's purchase decision.


On another note, would it be possible for you to show us what the EQ screen looks like? Just for curiousity's sake.

Again, I really appreciate you being here to answer these questions.

- Erin

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Old 02-02-2011   #319
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
nice...

I see you guys are using multeq (assumedly for imprint)... curious if you considered using dynamic eq as well (iow: a volume dependent EQ that can be either done automatically via imprint or even custom tailored). I ask this question because there is another bit of hardware out there that allows for this in the car audio realm, however, that DSP's controller has to be used in order to control that feature via volume. The problem with that is simply having two different sources (much like would be the case if one only bought the h800/c800 and used it with a non-ai-net headunit). With the way the w910+h800 sync, the need for a separate volume control would be mitigated, and quite honestly would definitely be a HIGH factor in many's purchase decision.


On another note, would it be possible for you to show us what the EQ screen looks like? Just for curiousity's sake.

Again, I really appreciate you being here to answer these questions.

- Erin
Hi Erin,

Once again, I have to reiterate that this is not using Audyssey tuning, rather our own proprietary tuning that allows for customer defined target curves and after the fact adjustment. However, it looks like you found some of our leftover slop from the original development.. that'll be ImprintEQ for production (realize we started development on this guy many moons ago before we had enough market feedback to determine the need to do our own tuning algorithm). Thanks for being a beta tester!

The RoadEQ is effectively a dynamic EQ, in that it actively EQ's the signal with reference to a quiet cabin to achieve a consistent sound regardless of cabin noise. Not sure which piece you are talking about, but you don't have to be shy, just type the name in here.

Here is a shot of the EQ
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Old 02-02-2011   #320
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Hi Erin,

Once again, I have to reiterate that this is not using Audyssey tuning, rather our own proprietary tuning that allows for customer defined target curves and after the fact adjustment. However, it looks like you found some of our leftover slop from the original development.. that'll be ImprintEQ for production (realize we started development on this guy many moons ago before we had enough market feedback to determine the need to do our own tuning algorithm). Thanks for being a beta tester!

The RoadEQ is effectively a dynamic EQ, in that it actively EQ's the signal with reference to a quiet cabin to achieve a consistent sound regardless of cabin noise. Not sure which piece you are talking about, but you don't have to be shy, just type the name in here.

Here is a shot of the EQ
Cheers for the feedback, Jim!
I'm sorry for making that mistake... I do recall you saying that previously but was thrown by the multEQ lablel.

I imagined RoadEQ was somewhat similar... I just view the two differently. Whereas with RoadEQ you're adjusting levels/FR based on road noise and with dynamicEQ, you're changing the curve based on the listener's hearing (ie: fletcher munson/equal loudness). In regards to how they differ in the use, well, for competitors, the roadEQ wouldn't really help as there is no correlating road noise to compensate for. Rather, we're in a parked car. Of course, competitors are a niche market, I know... but I do see the carry-over from "parked" to "driving" dynamicEQ plausible. Not sure if that helps relay my case any better, though.


The specific brand is Audison. They use the dynamicEQ to allow for a somewhat 'automatic' curve, or the user can go in with the use of a 31band equalizer and shape an upper and lower volume bounds FR. Use of this feature is only available via the DRC controller, though.

So, for example, let's say you want to mimic the fletcher munson curve (for pure example). The goal here is to take some of the sharpness out of the area your hearing is most sensitive to at high volumes, while at low volumes, you boost the frequencies you're least sensitive to:
  • At low volumes you will have a 15dB uprise starting at 300hz and going to 20hz, you want a boosted top end starting at 10khz and want the rest of the system to play relatively flat.
  • At high volumes, you want the low end and high end to be a relatively flat while you want to notch out 2-5khz, with 4khz being the largest notch.

Now that you know your target low and high, you simply go to the bitone software, turn on dynamicEQ, click on the 'low volume' setting and shape the equalizer curve to your desired tastes; boosted low end from 200hz down to 20hz and boosted high end from 10-20khz. Done there.
Then, on the 'high volume' setting, you keep the equalizer curve relatively flat, except you drop 2-5khz a few dB, notching it out to mimic the F-M curve (posted below for illustration).
You save the settings, and then you're done. Now whenever you use the volume, the software interpolates the curve between your low and high volume settings.

Of course, the above example is based on published f-m curves. As an end user, I would appreciate the ability to make the curve whatever I want (as the audison softare permits).
I hope that wasn't too wordy.


F-M Curve (posted in large resolution for others who are curious):

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Last edited by ErinH; 02-02-2011 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011   #321
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

What is the dimensions of the H800?

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Old 02-02-2011   #322
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Quote:
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What is the dimensions of the H800?
8.5" x 6.75" x 2"

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Old 02-02-2011   #323
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Hey Erin,

I see the point there .. but but but ... the reality is, most everyone here will voice/EQ their cars at their preferred listening level. The tuning tweaking process is usually quite iterative in that we hear something we don't like and go back and tweak it. Rarely are we voicing at such quiet levels that we need to actively add in f-m (or any user defined) EQ to get it to sound the same at the higher levels. The only real variable is actually the environment .. most of us tune parked, without road noise. The RoadEQ attempts to eliminate that variable.

Just my take on things ...
Jim

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Old 02-02-2011   #324
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

I understand. You're really only pandering to a small crowd with that feature, but I definitely think it's a cool one. Just from a 'linearity' perspective, that's why I view something like dynamicEQ so beneficial.

It would be interesting to see how external pink noise or any external sound source might work to manipulare the RoadEQ. Maybe one could make an inverse of the desired curve and use that to shape the roadEQ curve???... No idea how RoadEQ works in this regard, though.
Not saying it's needed, but my mind is just wandering right now...

Time Delay Calculator:
http://tracerite.com/calc.html

Last edited by ErinH; 02-02-2011 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011   #325
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Default re: Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread

Jim,

Maybe I missed it and please forgive me if I did, as i don't want the questions to be redundant by any means.

From looking over the screen shots and over the info very quick posted in this thread, can the new h800 output channels be configure like the below or anything in the below matter:


Channels 1-2: tweeter or wide-band

Channels 3-4: mid-bass

Channels 5-6: rears

Channel 7: center

Channel 8: sub-woofer

or more simple

Channels 1-2: tweeter or wide-band

Channels 3-4: mid-bass

Channel 5: center

Channel 6: subwoofer

Basically either a 2 way front stage with center/rears and subwoofer/s

or

2 way front stage with Center and Subwoofer.

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