Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed - Page 2 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2013   #26
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,543

Thanks: 568
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 326 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Part of what I took from this is that a smaller amplifier delivers a lot more distortion when pushed into clipping as well. So there's two problems in the picture, 1) sine wave like input and 2) more work/less cooling due to the higher distortion and noise floor.

Both of those would seem to allow more power to the coil without much of a break. Doesn't that mean it's easier to burn up a coil when pushing an amp too far? A speaker coil was designed to play with music, which is dynamic and not constant.


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-25-2013   #27
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quality_sound's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cannon AFB, NM/
Posts: 8,965

Thanks: 18
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 264 quality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nice


iTrader: (52)



Default

Distortion doesn't increase power. The size of the amplifier has nothing to do with its clipping characteristics.

quality_sound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #28
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,543

Thanks: 568
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 326 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Maybe a lot of assumptions are being thrown around? I thought of this article in a sense of somebody using gain incorrectly. Mostly because almost every person I've ever helped points out right away that their sub sounds best when they turn the gain all the way up.

Doesn't a coil need to shed heat? If it's busy playing distortion or getting stressed out due to clipping, when will it get a chance to breathe? But I failed to mention my assumption of a poorly set gain.

I agree that if gains are set correctly I don't understand why an amplifier would hurt any speaker that's setup appropriately. But I usually only see people turn the gain up too much when using smaller amps.


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2013   #29
DIYMA 500 Club
 
minbari's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: STL, MO
Age: 46
Posts: 11,919

Thanks: 38
Thanked 142 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 234 minbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to all


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Distortion doesn't increase power. The size of the amplifier has nothing to do with its clipping characteristics.
depends on how you qualify "distortion" clipping is still distortion and it certainly does add power.

Original post whore!
Bent Nail Brewery

2014 Tacoma, Stock HU |AC LC2i | Dayton 408 DSP | Phoenix Gold T500.2 -> Silver Flute 8" | -> JL 300/2 -> Vifa XT25 | JL 500/1 -> 12" ID IDQ
minbari is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #30
DIYMA 500 Club
 
MarkZ's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ..........................................
Posts: 6,851

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 243 MarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really nice


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT FAN View Post
If you send your sub back for warranty because it burned out, the manufacurer can tell from the burn pattern on the voicecoil whether it had too much power or clipping.

Speaker Failure Analysis

1. Black discolouration in the middle or all over the voice coil
This is the most common damage seen and indicates that a well centred coil was driven with too much audio power for too long. The resistance of the burnt coil is often half or less the nominal value due to internal shorting.

2. Black discolouration at one end of the voice coil.
This is also a common sight and indicates either the voice coil was not centred during manufacture OR that the damage was caused by DC current rather than audio frequency current. A large DC current will displace the voice coil to one or other extreme. A faulty amplifier is automatically suspected.

I'm not sure what you're implying here, but DC offset has absolutely nothing to do with clipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
MarkZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #31
DIYMA 500 Club
 
MarkZ's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ..........................................
Posts: 6,851

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 243 MarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really nice


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
Doesn't a coil need to shed heat? If it's busy playing distortion or getting stressed out due to clipping, when will it get a chance to breathe?
Coils don't breathe! They also don't sweat, piss, shit, or anything else.

Coils also don't know what distortion is. They don't have access to the original (undistorted) waveform, so it is impossible for a coil to be affected by distortion. Distortion only affects human beings, because as humans we have the unique ability to have expectations about what something should sound like. So we're pretty damned good at identifying distortion. [actually, we're pretty bad at it, but sssshhhhhhhh!]

The only thing that coils "know" is how much energy they're being driven with, how much energy they were driven with a few seconds/minutes ago, what the frequency content of that energy is, and how hot or cold the local environment is. Those are the things that will determine whether your speaker will live or die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
MarkZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #32
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 384

Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 91 CDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (5)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkZ View Post
I'm not sure what you're implying here, but DC offset has absolutely nothing to do with clipping.
I didn't write those notes. I copied them from the link that I included to illustrate my statement that the manufactures can tell from the burn patterns on the VC what kind of abuse that it encountered. I am learning and appreciate anybody's input or clarification.

I remember reading on multiple occasions over the years about the effects of clipping and the damage it causes, but the article I referenced actually refuted those claims.

Since you mentioned it, doesn't DC offset affect clipping? In a simple amplifier, don't you want to bias a transistor at the midpoint of its linear range so that it can handle the positve and negative halves of the signal equally? If the bias is offset too little or too much, the transistor will cut off on the low end or saturate on the top end.
CDT FAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #33
DIYMA 500 Club
 
minbari's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: STL, MO
Age: 46
Posts: 11,919

Thanks: 38
Thanked 142 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 234 minbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to all


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT FAN View Post
I didn't write those notes. I copied them from the link that I included to illustrate my statement that the manufactures can tell from the burn patterns on the VC what kind of abuse that it encountered. I am learning and appreciate anybody's input or clarification.

I remember reading on multiple occasions over the years about the effects of clipping and the damage it causes, but the article I referenced actually refuted those claims.

Since you mentioned it, doesn't DC offset affect clipping? In a simple amplifier, don't you want to bias a transistor at the midpoint of its linear range so that it can handle the positve and negative halves of the signal equally? If the bias is offset too little or too much, the transistor will cut off on the low end or saturate on the top end.
that is why most amplifiers are push-pull. you have 1 device baised positive and 1 baised negative. only 1 device is ever "on" at a time.

no matter what class you use, there the DC bias is NEVER on the output of the amplifier. more than a few mV of bias voltage at the output is rare.

Original post whore!
Bent Nail Brewery

2014 Tacoma, Stock HU |AC LC2i | Dayton 408 DSP | Phoenix Gold T500.2 -> Silver Flute 8" | -> JL 300/2 -> Vifa XT25 | JL 500/1 -> 12" ID IDQ
minbari is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #34
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 384

Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 91 CDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (5)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by minbari View Post
that is why most amplifiers are push-pull. you have 1 device baised positive and 1 baised negative. only 1 device is ever "on" at a time.

no matter what class you use, there the DC bias is NEVER on the output of the amplifier. more than a few mV of bias voltage at the output is rare.
Oh, I see what you are getting at. That is if the DC bias is actually presented to the speaker. No, it shouldn't be directly flowing through the speaker. Just between the base and emitter of the transistor. However, it will indirectly affect the speaker output if it isn't adjusted properly.
CDT FAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #35
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quality_sound's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cannon AFB, NM/
Posts: 8,965

Thanks: 18
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 264 quality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nice


iTrader: (52)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
Maybe a lot of assumptions are being thrown around? I thought of this article in a sense of somebody using gain incorrectly. Mostly because almost every person I've ever helped points out right away that their sub sounds best when they turn the gain all the way up.

Doesn't a coil need to shed heat? If it's busy playing distortion or getting stressed out due to clipping, when will it get a chance to breathe? But I failed to mention my assumption of a poorly set gain.

I agree that if gains are set correctly I don't understand why an amplifier would hurt any speaker that's setup appropriately. But I usually only see people turn the gain up too much when using smaller amps.
How does a speaker, any speaker know the difference between a clean signal and a distorted one? If the speaker is still oscillating then it's shedding heat regardless of the signal it's getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minbari View Post
depends on how you qualify "distortion" clipping is still distortion and it certainly does add power.
I see what you're saying, but I think of distortion as just that. I don't lump clipping into that because one is signal and the other is power. Related but a distorted signal is not necessarily clipped. Agreed that clipping adds power.

quality_sound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #36
DIYMA 500 Club
 
MarkZ's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ..........................................
Posts: 6,851

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 243 MarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really nice


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT FAN View Post
I didn't write those notes. I copied them from the link that I included to illustrate my statement that the manufactures can tell from the burn patterns on the VC what kind of abuse that it encountered. I am learning and appreciate anybody's input or clarification.
That's fine. I'm just trying to point out that when the second note talks about DC offset, it means that there was coil offset that resulted from a defective amplifier with a nonzero DC bias. This doesn't have anything to do with clipping... your post looked like you were trying to attribute those notes to clipping, that's why I responded.

Quote:
I remember reading on multiple occasions over the years about the effects of clipping and the damage it causes, but the article I referenced actually refuted those claims.

Since you mentioned it, doesn't DC offset affect clipping? In a simple amplifier, don't you want to bias a transistor at the midpoint of its linear range so that it can handle the positve and negative halves of the signal equally? If the bias is offset too little or too much, the transistor will cut off on the low end or saturate on the top end.
Yup! DC of any sort will produce asymmetric clipping. But that would be the least of your problems if you had that much offset.

Quote:
Oh, I see what you are getting at. That is if the DC bias is actually presented to the speaker. No, it shouldn't be directly flowing through the speaker. Just between the base and emitter of the transistor. However, it will indirectly affect the speaker output if it isn't adjusted properly.
Don't confuse offset with bias. Bias can be adjusted to accommodate a particular design, but offset should always be as close to zero as possible. Some designs are intentionally overbiased into class A/B (out of laziness IMO ), but they should still produce an offset on the order of a few millivolts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
MarkZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #37
DIYMA 500 Club
 
MarkZ's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ..........................................
Posts: 6,851

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 243 MarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really nice


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
I see what you're saying, but I think of distortion as just that. I don't lump clipping into that because one is signal and the other is power. Related but a distorted signal is not necessarily clipped. Agreed that clipping adds power.
This is a good point. It all gets down to semantics.

If you're comparing a signal that maxes out at 35v but isn't clipping vs. one that maxes out at 35v but IS clipping, the clipped signal will have more energy.

If you're comparing a signal that maxes out at 50v without clipping, but shove that SAME signal at the same amplitude level into an amp with 35v rails, the clipped signal will have less energy.

Clipping is a form of compression. Literally. If you buy a compressor, and set it to a hard knee with really fast attack, you're compressing the signal by clipping it. So, in the real world, if you clip your signal, you're going to be giving the speaker LESS energy overall than you would if you had an amp with no limitations.

The old motto was "clipping blows speakers". Maybe the new motto should be that clipping saves speakers.

[the caveat here is when tweeters are on passive crossovers... then it's a different story]

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
MarkZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to MarkZ For This Useful Post:
jku89 (04-18-2017)
Old 03-26-2013   #38
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 384

Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 91 CDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enoughCDT FAN will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (5)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkZ View Post
That's fine. I'm just trying to point out that when the second note talks about DC offset, it means that there was coil offset that resulted from a defective amplifier with a nonzero DC bias. This doesn't have anything to do with clipping... your post looked like you were trying to attribute those notes to clipping, that's why I responded.



Yup! DC of any sort will produce asymmetric clipping. But that would be the least of your problems if you had that much offset.



Don't confuse offset with bias. Bias can be adjusted to accommodate a particular design, but offset should always be as close to zero as possible. Some designs are intentionally overbiased into class A/B (out of laziness IMO ), but they should still produce an offset on the order of a few millivolts.
Thanks for clarifying. I need to refresh my knowledge. I think my memory isn't what it use to be.
CDT FAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #39
DIYMA 500 Club
 
minbari's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: STL, MO
Age: 46
Posts: 11,919

Thanks: 38
Thanked 142 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 234 minbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to allminbari is a name known to all


iTrader: (0)



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
I see what you're saying, but I think of distortion as just that. I don't lump clipping into that because one is signal and the other is power. Related but a distorted signal is not necessarily clipped. Agreed that clipping adds power.
I call anything distortion that"distorts"the signal. If the output doesn't follow the input, then it is distorted


Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts

Original post whore!
Bent Nail Brewery

2014 Tacoma, Stock HU |AC LC2i | Dayton 408 DSP | Phoenix Gold T500.2 -> Silver Flute 8" | -> JL 300/2 -> Vifa XT25 | JL 500/1 -> 12" ID IDQ
minbari is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #40
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Bayboy's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 7,005

Thanks: 68
Thanked 304 Times in 261 Posts
Rep Power: 192 Bayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud of


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

First time reading this and damn near got a headache trying to keep up with it. Guess I'm destined to damage my drivers since I'm upgrading to more power for headroom.... I give up.
Bayboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #41
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quality_sound's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cannon AFB, NM/
Posts: 8,965

Thanks: 18
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 264 quality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nice


iTrader: (52)



Default

You'll be fine. I regularly overpower the piss out of mine. It's not a bad thing.

quality_sound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #42
DIYMA 500 Club
 
chad's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 17,149

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 946 chad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

I wish I had the money to overpower the piss out of everything....

If you ain't flickering the clip light, you are wasting money on too much power.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
Mark's an up late kinda dude. His neighbor has a horse.
chad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #43
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Bayboy's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 7,005

Thanks: 68
Thanked 304 Times in 261 Posts
Rep Power: 192 Bayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud of


iTrader: (7)



Default

My current amps don't have clipping indicators, but I would notice distortion before I reached driver limits. Then again my normal listening levels varies greatly so I felt a bit more power was in order.

Bayboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2013   #44
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,543

Thanks: 568
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 326 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
How does a speaker, any speaker know the difference between a clean signal and a distorted one? If the speaker is still oscillating then it's shedding heat regardless of the signal it's getting.



I see what you're saying, but I think of distortion as just that. I don't lump clipping into that because one is signal and the other is power. Related but a distorted signal is not necessarily clipped. Agreed that clipping adds power.
I'm definitely just chiming in for the sake of learning. I'm not the best at conveying the thoughts in my head so I'm really using words out of context in a big way

I had read another paper sometime back, don't recall where, that stated it's crucial to keep a clean signal going to the coil. So when I refer to distortion I was trying to imply a clipped signal.

So here's where I'm getting mixed up between the two sides...A clean signal can overwhelm a coil but so can a clipped signal....is all this coming down to the same thing as always; make sure you're only feeding the speaker what it can handle and use filters as needed? That's the art of this whole thing. Balancing install needs with what you have or will have vs. what you like. Holy crap...I get burned out reading this stuff sometimes.

So what everybody is getting into is whether it's the amp's fault or not? Hrmmm. Well this is probably where I just start watching again. I haven't burned one up yet. So I'm applying something right.


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished

Last edited by I800C0LLECT; 03-26-2013 at 10:05 PM..
I800C0LLECT is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #45
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Bayboy's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 7,005

Thanks: 68
Thanked 304 Times in 261 Posts
Rep Power: 192 Bayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud of


iTrader: (7)



Default

Applying something right, or limiting your setup's potential? Hmmm....

Bayboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #46
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,543

Thanks: 568
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 326 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
Applying something right, or limiting your setup's potential? Hmmm....
I used my DQS to set gains for quite a bit But I totally see where you're going with that :>


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #47
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Bayboy's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 7,005

Thanks: 68
Thanked 304 Times in 261 Posts
Rep Power: 192 Bayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud ofBayboy has much to be proud of


iTrader: (7)



Default

Personally I've always matched power as close as possible, but this time I'm going for the extra headroom. Nothing worse than smelling your a/b amp on a long drive during the summer (I do push it to it's limits often). Haven't blown drivers or amps in a long time, but I don't like reaching power limits so soon. Will I reach driver limits now? Hmmm I don't know, but I'm hoping amp distortion won't be an issue. Two MRX-F30 on fronts (1 bridged on midbass), and a MRX-M100 on sub(s). Hoping this cures the headroom & heat issues, plus opens the door for more driver options. Perhaps I'm going in the wrong direction so I'm going to stay tuned to this thread.

Bayboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #48
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
ChrisB's Avatar
 
Inappropriate Thoughts
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LFT
Age: 46
Posts: 3,991

Thanks: 8
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 1029 ChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
I wish I had the money to overpower the piss out of everything....

If you ain't flickering the clip light, you are wasting money on too much power.
Ahh, the good old days of DJing with the Peavy CS amplifiers that felt like they weighed 100 pounds each. I used to run them with the VU meters bouncing into the DDT light.

2019 WRX Limited with stock HK sound while iDatalink prepares the Maestro RR2 for the modern day Subaru

"Beware of the forum boner for it will screw you every time!"
ChrisB is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #49
DIYMA 500 Club
 
chad's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 17,149

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 946 chad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond reputechad has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

DDT is limiting, damn good limiting at that. Beats the fuck out of Crown's ODEP... that's horrible shit.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
Mark's an up late kinda dude. His neighbor has a horse.
chad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2013   #50
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quality_sound's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cannon AFB, NM/
Posts: 8,965

Thanks: 18
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 264 quality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nicequality_sound is just really nice


iTrader: (52)



Default Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
I'm definitely just chiming in for the sake of learning. I'm not the best at conveying the thoughts in my head so I'm really using words out of context in a big way

I had read another paper sometime back, don't recall where, that stated it's crucial to keep a clean signal going to the coil. So when I refer to distortion I was trying to imply a clipped signal.

So here's where I'm getting mixed up between the two sides...A clean signal can overwhelm a coil but so can a clipped signal....is all this coming down to the same thing as always; make sure you're only feeding the speaker what it can handle and use filters as needed? That's the art of this whole thing. Balancing install needs with what you have or will have vs. what you like. Holy crap...I get burned out reading this stuff sometimes.

So what everybody is getting into is whether it's the amp's fault or not? Hrmmm. Well this is probably where I just start watching again. I haven't burned one up yet. So I'm applying something right.
Exactly. It's ALL about power and not exceeding your drivers' limits.

quality_sound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy