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Old 03-01-2007   #1
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Default are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

I have a buddy that told me that i should put 6 1/2 in my rear deck instead of 6x9 because 6x9 are not round and that a perfect round speaker has better sound. tell me what you think
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Old 03-01-2007   #2
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

BS. A speaker does not have to be round to sound good.

Personally I have no use for rear speakers, but that's not the point, to say that a round speaker sounds better than an oval is ludicrous.

A 6x9 speaker has more surface area than a 6.5" and therefore has the potential to have even greater bass output and efficiency.
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Old 03-01-2007   #3
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

a round speaker will produce sound comparatively better than an oval speaker because the motor is evenly distributing engery on the cone and surround as opposed to the oval speaker which will be uneven.

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Old 03-01-2007   #4
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

bobditts is correct. Some companies have tried, mostly failed, to make good oval speakers. The problem lies in manf a solid cone that is consistently stiff in all of the surface areas, shorter lengths of the same material and thickness are inherently stiffer. This leads to slight physical deformation of the cone which induces distortion into the intended output signal.

Adding more mass to thinner areas to compensate adds, mass, not a good thing either. The lower the mass, of course stiffness is important and many other aspects) the quicker the movement can be with out over excursion, the more accurate the driver can replicate the intended sound.

There happens to be a very fine audio manf that is addressing the oval speaker issues and soon will launch a line of high end ones that I can only imagine will be quite good.

Generally though, and nearly always, round speakers will sound much better than the same equivalent oval speaker. (the oval may be louder, that does not mean better

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You will find very few truly good sounding installs have speakers in the rear
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Old 03-01-2007   #5
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobditts View Post
a round speaker will produce sound comparatively better than an oval speaker because the motor is evenly distributing engery on the cone and surround as opposed to the oval speaker which will be uneven.
In what way will the sound be better?
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Old 03-01-2007   #6
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

See my post

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Old 03-01-2007   #7
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio View Post
See my post
Don't get me wrong. I don't run oval speakers, but not because they sound like shit, but because oval speakers generally are of average quality. I don't think that's because an oval speaker sounds bad by design, it's because they are generally marketed towards the mass market.

I remember hearing a set of Altec Lansing 6x9's many many years ago that murdered most other speakers in their day. They sounded like a small subwoofer was playing with them.
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Old 03-01-2007   #8
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
They sounded like a small subwoofer was playing with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio View Post
(the oval may be louder, that does not mean better
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Old 03-01-2007   #9
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

The real point is, using the same quality of materials to build a reasonably priced driver will result in the round speaker sounding better but will have less surface area so will not be as loud. When you get into higher end manf and materials the equations change and things get closer but to truely build a great oval driver the cone material will have to be such that it does not flex differently across it's surface and has to be very low in mass as well(all drivers need the stiffest, low mass cone possible)

So, to get great sounding oval speakers you have to spend allot of money. You can buy a huge number of round speakers that are dirt cheap and just as good in comparison but generally(excursion, motor strength, etc.... are limiting factors) will have less lower frequency output or extension.

Unless you are willing to spend quite a bit more per driver, you will do far better for less money with round speakers. There are many incredibly good and dirt cheap round speakers on the market now, got to love that!!!

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Old 03-01-2007   #10
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

I still don't believe as a general statement, that round speakers sound better than oval speakers because of the shape.

Most speaker manufacturers concentrate their high end lines to round speakers, but I'm not totally convinced it's because oval speakers sound bad.

It doesn't matter much to me though, even if it's a proven fact that round speakers always sound better than ovals as I don't run oval speakers anyway.

But the original question was about "rear" speakers. In that application, I doubt the shape would matter that much. Personally, no rear speakers sound better than round speakers.
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Old 03-01-2007   #11
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

think of it this way..... since a round speakers cone is excurding (dont even know if thats the right word lol) evenly, the sound wave will be nice and clean. the oval speaker will be uneven which will produce sloppy sound waves causing minor inaccuracies.

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Old 03-01-2007   #12
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
I still don't believe as a general statement, that round speakers sound better than oval speakers because of the shape.

Most speaker manufacturers concentrate their high end lines to round speakers, but I'm not totally convinced it's because oval speakers sound bad.
You don't have to believe something for it to be true.

Why else would most high end speaker manufacturers only build round speakers, if oval ones sounded just as good? There's a lot of cars that use 5x7 and 6x9 speakers on the road, why would manufacturers want to pass up all that business if oval speakers were no different sounding than round?

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Old 03-01-2007   #13
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobditts View Post
think of it this way..... since a round speakers cone is excurding (dont even know if thats the right word lol) evenly, the sound wave will be nice and clean. the oval speaker will be uneven which will produce sloppy sound waves causing minor inaccuracies.
That's possible. My point was mainly that the average 6x9 user won't hear the very subtle inaccuracies it they do exist, and certainly not in a rear speaker application.

My bigggest problem is "blanket" statments, such as "round speakers sound better than oval speakers" even though you might not have meant it as a "blanket" statement. I'm sure I can find some oval speakers that sound much better than some round speakers.

Considering that probably 1% or less of us on DIYMA use ovals may actually be saying something.
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Old 03-01-2007   #14
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

uneven motor energy dispersion also leads to driver failure since the cone is wobbling. im not talking instantanious or anything..... but over a period of time, the driver will fatigue quicker than the comparable round driver.

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Old 03-01-2007   #15
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by khail19 View Post
You don't have to believe something for it to be true.

Why else would most high end speaker manufacturers only build round speakers, if oval ones sounded just as good? There's a lot of cars that use 5x7 and 6x9 speakers on the road, why would manufacturers want to pass up all that business if oval speakers were no different sounding than round?
They don't pass it up completely. There are plenty of "high dollar" 5x7/6x8 speakers on the market. Not nearly as many as there are round ones, but they definetelydso exist.

Let's not get away from the original question in regards to rear speakers though. In that application, you will not notice any difference between round or oval speakers...unless you have a rear imaging system, than perhaps.
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Old 03-01-2007   #16
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

89grand,
Since you do not seem to understand the physics of what is involved here it may be best to not post what you "believe" in as it can be misleading to those that are just now becoming informed about good sounding audio.

I do agree however that rear speakers generally suck but some just like that type of setup and more power to them. I nearly always recommend no rear speakers but it they insist on them I recommend round ones, again you can get great round ones for cheap but can spend allot of money to get the same quality in oval speakers.

Since this is a DIY site we focus on value, quality for the money more than anything(sometimes that means big bucks to meet your particular needs of course) what does the job the best.

Yes, oval speakers can be great but so few are even tolerable to listen to it is best to advise most people to avoid them all together.

No offense meant but we do need to be consistent here and that warrants making statements based on the reality of the physical properties of nearly all speakers manf and distributed today.

Way back in the day, I used to love the 6x9's I installed in my mothers 58 Pontiac along with a great Motarola 8 track, first system I even heard, I was 14 and now am going to be 55 in May. It has been at least 35 years since I though 6x9's were cool

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Old 03-01-2007   #17
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

89, Hey buddy, no harm meant really. , I seldom get to post much now, just to busy and I seldom get into it with anybody on a forum and I can be quite tenacious and have never lost an online arguement(only had a few in my lifetime) but I really prefer to just get along.

My apologies for dragging this on so long, if you care to discuss this further please PM or email, or call if you wish.

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Old 03-01-2007   #18
 
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio View Post
89grand,
Since you do not seem to understand the physics of what is involved here it may be best to not post what you "believe" in as it can be misleading to those that are just now becoming informed about good sounding audio.

I do agree however that rear speakers generally suck but some just like that type of setup and more power to them. I nearly always recommend no rear speakers but it they insist on them I recommend round ones, again you can get great round ones for cheap but can spend allot of money to get the same quality in oval speakers.

Since this is a DIY site we focus on value, quality for the money more than anything(sometimes that means big bucks to meet your particular needs of course) what does the job the best.

Yes, oval speakers can be great but so few are even tolerable to listen to it is best to advise most people to avoid them all together.

No offense meant but we do need to be consistent here and that warrants making statements based on the reality of the physical properties of nearly all speakers manf and distributed today.

Way back in the day, I used to love the 6x9's I installed in my mothers 58 Pontiac along with a great Motarola 8 track, first system I even heard, I was 14 and now am going to be 55 in May. It has been at least 35 years since I though 6x9's were cool

Rick
I've read a few of your other posts where you are disagreeing with someone and you always claim to be not wanting to offend, yet you come across as condesending and offensive anyway.

I'm not some jackass 15 year old with a cassette deck and a power booster setup (I'm 39 and a Process Engineer) that can't understand physics, and I certainly don't need to be told to shut up and listen while the adults (pro's) speak.

You seem to have even contradicted your own self with this statement:

"Yes, oval speakers can be great ..."

How is that even possible if the physics that I supposedly don't even understand don't allow for this?

Also, it may have 35 years since you "thought 6x9's where cool", but I've never thought that, and certainly don't think it now. I've never even owned a pair of them.

I was responding to a poster that said he friend claimed round speaker are better that 6x9's, and I still stand by my two original points. #1, if you want rear 6x9's you more than likely won't notice the difference between them and round speakers. And #2, I disagree with the blanket statement that round speakers sound better. I'd rather run a pair of JL Audio ZR570's for instance over a pair of Boss 6.5's.

From here on out though, I'll take your advice and I'll stay out of this thread, not because I'm an idiot though, but because I don't want to make enemies here.
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Old 03-02-2007   #19
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Thanks for clearing that up, I have been working far to many hours, have a nasty cold and any sort of cold medications mess my head up and I just was not stating things the way I meant for it to come out.

Being of equal manf quality round speakers will sound better in nearly all cases.

Only a few oval speakers have ever been manf that have been tolerable.

You can buy a multitude of low cost great sounding drivers but only a few great sounding oval units and they are not low cost.

Back when car audio first got started nearly all speakers that I can recall were oval speakers, that is all we had to compare to and thus why I liked them, until I heard better

-----------------------------------------

One of my favorite all time car audio manf is coming out with very high quality oval speakers soon and I bet they sound just great BUT, they won't be low cost DIY freindly units like we have some many choices of here, just the way it is It will be nice to get more midbass from the larger surface area of the cones that retrofitting round speakers into the oval holes for the market they are intended for, customers that want the best they can get without cutting up their cars, etc.

-----------------------------------------

To everyone else on my favorite audio site, I apologize if I have offended anyone, not my intention. I love the fact that we all get alone so well here almost always.

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Old 03-02-2007   #20
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Speaking of 6x9's,I sure would like to try them new ID XS 6x9 comps coming out soon.
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Old 03-02-2007   #21
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

I could not recall off the top of my head what ID has announced, I was referring to them

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Old 03-02-2007   #22
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

These.... Here's link for reference..... http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...hreadid=139082
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Old 03-02-2007   #23
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

Well, from personnal experience, everytime I've had 3 different sets of 6X9 speakers in my old car. Factory set, Sony, and Rockford Fosgate. Now, although the RF speakers sounded much better than the two previous sets, I still ended up cutting them off from playing anything above mid-bass. I just didn't like how it sounded. But, as for my front Alpine Type-S speakers, well, I was quite happy with them (until I heard bigger better setups that is). But, still cheaper than the 6X9s, but better sounding. But, that's just my opinion.
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Old 03-02-2007   #24
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

so i should get 61/2 for my rear deck what ones should i look at? thanks for all the help
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Old 03-02-2007   #25
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Default Re: are 6 1/2 better then 6x9

another sonata owner eh? cool. dont bother with any speakers in that rear deck. the sonatas rear deck is a PITA to get to. just pull the old ones out or just dosconnect them until you can take them out.

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