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Discussion Starter #1
Ive been interested in mobile audio for close to 20 years now. Ive thrown audio shop systems in cars and jeeps over the years, nothing spectacular and only in the name of having a little 'thump' in the ride. Im older now, and and have access to tools, lots of time and some extra funds. Plus Im comfortable now with fabricating things. Thanks to this forum Ive developed a burning desire to get some quality sound in my current car. There is a wealth of knowledge here and I have read countless threads trying to build enough to choose components and get a good jump on a quality install. Enough about me...

I have a Pioneer FH-P8000BT (15w per channel 3 sets of RCA outs).
I just purchased a set of HAT Imagine I6 6.5 components and they are mounted in the factory door location. There is a set of factory tweeters in the dash right in the corner where the window and the dash meet.

I just ordered an amp mounting kit and 150 of fatmat. I previously 'fatmatted the trunk so that's already done. Now you're caught up to today.

In preparation for the fatmat and the amp mounting kit, I went ahead and stripped all the interior panels except the door panels and pulled out the carpet all the way back into the trunk. Heres where the questions start. The second skin site reccomends applying cld to 25% of the surface area for vibration damping. They then recommend a layer of CCF and then a layer of MLV. I had planned on using the fatmat for sound deadening duties on the floor and behind the two rear seat side panels. Then CCF + MLV. When I got the carpet off today though, I see that there are 2 layers of factory 'stuff' under there. A rubbery softy layer first, and on top of it a solid rubber mat. Probaly 90 percent of the floor is covered with this stuff. Secondskin reccommends that the CCF be used as an isolation barrier between the deadner and the MLV.

Question 1 - Do I need to add the CCF though because of the two layers of stuff already there?

Question 2 - I noticed today that I get a much MUCH more solid soundstage in the front with the console out of the car. Given that i MAY have about 5 degrees of tilt angle available for my components, would trying to aim my components as much as possible so that they point over the console?

Question 3 - I noticed yesterday that when I roll the windows down, the soundstage is more solidly centered. What does that tell me? And what would manipulating my components to account for question 2 do to the cause of question 3?

I currently have no amplification ( will change after I get the sound deadening addressed and the wiring layed), I have no desire at this time to go active. I want a good quality system without permanently modifying the car in any way. So Im not gonna cut the door cards to get the optimum angles or anything. Im just querying to find out where my time tuning would be best spent.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
So I decided given the available information that I would use mlv only on top of the factory deadener + barrier in the front foot wells, ccf + mlv on top of the factory deadener in the rear foot wells and fat mat + factory deadner +ccf + mlv under the rear seats. The metal in the center under the rear seats is so thin that smashing it with my hand yeilds hearing the exhaust reverberating underneath it. I figured piling on the product at this location will help lower the road noise.

I really would appreciate some input on Question 2 and 3 above!!
 

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From what I've read, if your mids are aiming across toward each other with the console perpendicular to them you will get a null at 500 Hz.

Rolling the windows down removes reflections off the glass. This is similar to what you heard when you removed the console.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
From what I've read, if your mids are aiming across toward each other with the console perpendicular to them you will get a null at 500 Hz.

Rolling the windows down removes reflections off the glass. This is similar to what you heard when you removed the console.
Thank you! Now here is the heart of the matter, with the console back in place, will aiming the components over the console as much as possible (which will point them more directly at the glass) actually worsen those reflections? I have read a thread here where an installer purposely aimed at the window 2" down and 4" forward of his ear when in the drivers seat. Will this serve to reduce or remove the 500hz null and then add new ones or wierd imaging issues? Again, I will not be using a DSP.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
So these types of threads are more fun with pictures. Here is the process I used to build my enclosure and then the subsequent stripping of the interior in preparation for the wiring and sound deadening installation.





















 

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Thank you! Now here is the heart of the matter, with the console back in place, will aiming the components over the console as much as possible (which will point them more directly at the glass) actually worsen those reflections?
You'll get different reflections, which results in different cancellations. Another destructive force is comb filtering. I can't even pretend to be knowledgeable enough to go into adequate detail on this topic. I'm sure someone else will respond to this thread soon who can be more helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Looks like Ill have 100 sq ft of Fatmat xtreme and 40 sq ft of MLV + CCF sitting on my porch today when I get home.
Im excited about this opportunity to put this MLV stuff to the test. I stripped everything out of my interior but the drivers sear, drivers seat belt and the upper dash this weekend in preparation for the sound treatment. I noticed that the rear wheels just absolutely ROAR through the nice metal framed enclosure that frame the rear wheel wells. Those areas have already received about 80 - 90% coverage of Fatmat and it still sounds like a jet engine is following me around when I drive, especially in the rain. So I have chance to compare the car with Fatmat only (from the edge of the doors all the way back to the trunk - nearly 90% avg coverage if not closer to 95%), then with the proper treatment of ccf + mlv.

I'm going to approach this as follows:
1 - apply MLV + CCF ONLY to the two areas where the rear wheel wells are beside the passenger seats. Drive the car and see if the jet engine blast is quieted. Hopefully it is. If so then on to step 2.
2 - Begin treating the next loudest area.
3 - Continue treating each spot that's loudest until the entire car is treated (below the window line). At this time I can go back and do spot work on little rattles and squeaks.

If this works out as I hope, and the ccf + mlv is all it says it is, I should very shortly have some before and after comparisons and/or videos to post up.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I got my Fatmat Extreme and CCF and MLV in the mail yesterday. Don at Sound Deadener Showdown did an admirable job in working with me to put my order together and then getting it to me a day before I expected it. Hes also been readily available to answer any questions I send him. Sound Deadener Showdown gets a 10 for customer service IMHO.

So after work I got to work. I cleaned any residual funk off of the floor and side of the firewall where I was going to be treating.

Heres a picture of the area before:


I measured each section in a rough square that was larger than the floor area + the sides (transmission tunnel side and outer foot well side). I cut a section of CCF out to match the measurements. I then laid the CCF in and started working it into the corners and matching edges. CCF is really flexible and a bit stretchy. I started on one corner and used a marker to draw where it needed to be trimmed to match the contours of the floor pan. I took it out, trimmed it, laid it back in, marked it, trimmed it. This CCF makes the layout part really nice and easy, you can press it down and feel and see the contours underneath it. Once I got my piece of CCF perfect, I turned it upside down and laid it on my MLV. I traced the edges with a red marker and then cut the MLV out. I laid the ccf back in place, laid the MLV and trimmed where needed.

Heres a couple pics of the not quite finished step. (I still need to trim and lay in the side pieces which will either overlap the floor pan pieces or underlap. Underlap? Is that a word?








I plan on detailing the top of the transmission tunnel and the area around the shifter this evening before I get back to work. There is a brace there that the console bolts to that is rusty. Im also gonna pull that off, wire brush it and paint it. I can't stand knowing there are rusty brackets hiding in my car.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I almost started on the area that is going to be the true test of this CCF + MLV, this area of my car is where 99% of the road noise I hear comes from.



This is a rather complex area though, lots of curves and two levels of floor to try to overlap. I need to take my time with this area so I decided to wait. It was dark by now so I headed into the shop to get started on a side project:






I have never actually had the opportunity to take my carpet out and clean it back to brand new again. I broke out the foaming carpet cleaner and got to work. I cleaned all 4 sections once and called it a night. I plan on doing this as many times as it takes for the carpet it nice and fluffy and clean. haha!

Here's two sections after the first round. I Left one dirty to show the difference a little elbow grease and some foam can do.

 

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This weekend I finished up my cabin area. Everything had already been treated with MLV+CCF except for the areas behind my passenger side panels. I had previously covered this area (as you can see in the pictures) with fat mat.

Now before I go on, I want to make sure I convey my meaning very clearly. There are a LOT of discussions as to what different materials do in vibration dampening/ sound deadening. The road noise I heard after treating my wheel wells with fat mat was JUST AS LOUD, but it was a lower frequency, NOT A LOWER VOLUME. Does fat mat deaden sound? NO

There is no magic here. Fat mat does a GREAT job at damping vibrations. But if you want SOUND DEADER, the only way to get it is with MLV.

Once I got the area behind my side panels treated and screwed/snapped/bolted/popped trim panels and seats back in, I went for a ride... with the stereo off... how odd. I noticed that there were a couple of small squeaks in my passenger door, I noticed that the leather in my console top squeaks a little when my skin rubs it. And then I realized that this stuff had always done that. The MLV+CCF had so thoroughly eliminated road noise from my cabin area, I could hear new, very small squeaks. No big ones anymore, no rattles or pops. Just very small squeaks from panels shifting with the body stresses. I couldn't hear the sand hitting the bottom of my car any more, train tracks don't sound like jarring attacks on my cars structure anymore. Doing 55 SOUNDS like doing 25. Ladies and gents, MLV+CCF does what it says its supposed to do. No magic, just a nice clean barrier between you and all the noise that's outside your car. It works. Its amazing. I found myself trying to pop my ears all the way to work this morning because my car has that same dampened feeling that your ears have when they need to pop.

AMAZING.

Don at SoundDeadenerShowdown is a great guy to work with, its obvious that he knows his stuff. He was very friendly, took the time to answer every single question I sent him in detail, and he went beyond and offered suggestions. Thank you Don. Im totally pleased with the results ( and I still have to do my doors and the trunk floor!).
 

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Yeah, that enclosure is done very well. I have the same car and I made mine huge cause I was scared about the sub fitting and it was my first glass adventure.

:)

Also, I can move this to the build log forum if you like.
 

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Yeah, that enclosure is done very well. I have the same car and I made mine huge cause I was scared about the sub fitting and it was my first glass adventure.

:)

Also, I can move this to the build log forum if you like.
Thank you! That was my first as well, I finally figured it all out when I was halfway done with the front. Im trying to talk my friend into doing wheel well enclosures in his Civic now that I know how to do it right. haha

Please do move it, I appreciate it!
 
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