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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long time no post, but after 10 years I am selling my mustang. It has 3 JL W3 10's sealed forward facing behind back seat powered by an MBQuart DSC2000.1 and JL C3 3 way components in factory locations (midbass where factory 8" sub was in bottom of door, mid and tweeter where factory 6x8 was) powered by a Zapco Reference DC200.2. Install and tune was handled locally by Steve Cook at Audio X. Well he closed up shop and I don't think he is doing anything for the public now so I'll be doing most of this by myself.

I bought a 2006 Explorer, and so far I have a Zapco ST-4X SQ for mids and tweets, NVX JAD800.4 for midbass, Sundown SFB-1000D for subs. Tweets are Peerless, and I just bought a pair of SQL 15's that will be in a 4cu ft sealed box. Midbass I am most likely going with SMB 8's if they'll fit, SMB 6.5's if not. The only thing left is a set of midranges. I want them to be able to take the 65 watts RMS of the Zapco crossed over at 500-1000 hertz depending on what sounds the best and my budget is about 100.00 or so. They will be placed in a pod in the A pillar with the tweeter. I have looked at the Infinity Kappa Perfect 300M for 105 on ebay, and also a few Dayton's, ND91,DMA90. The Dayton's are rated for 30 watts RMS but in my reading here many of you run more power to mids crossed over. I want loud and clear. Tweets are rated 100 watts RMS, and I want mids that sound good, but also take what the Zapco will throw at them continuously. The system in my mustang sounded fine, just not quite loud enough for me. Only processing will be from a new Pioneer head unit for time alignment, band pass on midbass, high pass for midrange, and will use high pass crossover on amp for tweets. It goes to 3000 htz.

Is this going to sound horrible ? Again I'm not looking for perfection, never will compete, just like to jam AC/DC, etc occasionally. I'll do some deadening on the doors for the midbass, and either build the pods or hire that done. I'm on a budget, all the amps were purchased used, and subs were on sale. Also on the pods, whats the best for aiming them ? Aim both at drivers seat ? Aim left at right seat, an vice versa ? That's the one thing I don't know what will do best and I don't want to have to have half a dozen sets built. Would I be better off using PVC end caps on a swivel of sorts and playing with that ? Thanks in advance if you read all my blabbering.
 

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When you say pod in the a pillar, are you saying a small sealed pod attached to the A pillar like Valicar pods or are you saying you are having pillars made that will breath behind the pillar down into the dash? This will make a difference on the proper driver for your installation. Let us know that info and then we can give you some examples that will work in that application with your budget(y)
 

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You haven't mentioned a DSP. Hopefully you have one. What tweeter are you running?

Plenty of good budget mids would work.

Dayton RS100 or RS75. Peerless TC9 , faitalPro makes afew good ones with higher efficiency, cdt unity 8 or maybe the 7 if you don't need the fullrange.

If you need output look a a 3.5 inch driver over a 3 inch (generally speaking) or a PA driver like the faitalpro and HPF a bit higher (500Hz vs 300Hz typical for a 3 inch).
 

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This is a cheap full range driver that is very good for the price. If you are ok with raw drivers like the Audible Physics above Tangband makes some nice drivers. If your willing to stretch your budget a bit these are nice aswell and come with grills.


 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

That's the tweeters I bought, but I'm not married to them if they won't work since they were only about 20.00. Raw drivers are fine as long as it's a 4 ohm and will handle the 65 watts rms from the Zapco. On the pillars, I'm open to sealed or vented, I've never had them but think that will work best for what I want. I really don't want to run a separate DSP at all as thats more tuning than I'm willing to try to learn, and I sure can't afford to pay someone to do it based on quotes I have read on here. The pioneer head units I'm looking at have active 2 way with band pass for mid bass and high pass for tweets with adjustable crossovers if I'm not mistaken. For what I want, I think all I would gain with a DSP is the ability to band pass the mids as well. I figured I'd high pass with head unit for mids, and use crossover on amp for tweets as it goes to 3000 hz.

On the CDT recommendations, my first component set back 12 or so years ago were CDT and they blew within 6 months on rated power. Are they better quality now ? I had also looked at that Dayton RS100 and liked it but again I have not heard any besides the JL's I use to have and don't want to go in completely blind as I can't afford to keep swapping them out. That's why I asked you good folks as I have already learned so much reading here over the years.
 

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Double check on the available crossovers built into the Pioneer HUs. Yes, they can do 2-way plus sub but, if I’m not mistaken, the lowest crossover for the low/high is around 1.5k. If you’re planning a 3-way front it doesn’t make any sense to HP a 3” mid that high. Even a cheaper DSP like the Dayton would be worth getting just to use as a crossover.
 

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That's the tweeters I bought, but I'm not married to them if they won't work since they were only about 20.00. Raw drivers are fine as long as it's a 4 ohm and will handle the 65 watts rms from the Zapco. On the pillars, I'm open to sealed or vented, I've never had them but think that will work best for what I want. I really don't want to run a separate DSP at all as thats more tuning than I'm willing to try to learn, and I sure can't afford to pay someone to do it based on quotes I have read on here. The pioneer head units I'm looking at have active 2 way with band pass for mid bass and high pass for tweets with adjustable crossovers if I'm not mistaken. For what I want, I think all I would gain with a DSP is the ability to band pass the mids as well. I figured I'd high pass with head unit for mids, and use crossover on amp for tweets as it goes to 3000 hz.

On the CDT recommendations, my first component set back 12 or so years ago were CDT and they blew within 6 months on rated power. Are they better quality now ? I had also looked at that Dayton RS100 and liked it but again I have not heard any besides the JL's I use to have and don't want to go in completely blind as I can't afford to keep swapping them out. That's why I asked you good folks as I have already learned so much reading here over the years.
any reason why you picked these tweeters? Its like a 3/4" that you can use from 4000 Hz and up, perhaps. I guess it was cheap so that's good. Fs is about 2000hz so make sure you HPF around 4k (2x Fs). I wouldn't run these if you cant cross them high enough.

If your pioneer deck can run 2way + sub active that will work well enough. You might need to get a little creative with the amp xovers to get it to work out, but it sounds like you understand what you might need to do. If you wanted to simplify things you could drop the tweeters and run a full range driver or a coax w/ passives.

Personally, I'd sell the zapco for a DSP (dayton would be the cheapest i'd spend money on, or spend more for a used helix mini, minidsp 6x8, or whatever you can find) and run a 2 way with some faitalpro 3" and Steven audio mb 6 or mb 8 (2ohm). That should be plenty to rip you face off. The pioneer might have enough processing to make it work if you're hesitant about buying the DSP. If that's the case run 4ohm midbass.

Fullrange should be installed on axis to the driver seat.

link to either the 3 or 4 inch faitalPRO fullrange. Might want to try 300 - 500 Hz HPF depending on how hard you push them.

The peerless/vifa TC9 measures very well for a low cost option. You trade off a bit of efficiency from the FaitalPROs.
Vifa TC9 - 3" Midrange/Widebander REVIEW/Measurements

link to Stevens Audio Midbasses - I'd rec the 2ohm to get more juice outa the amp, if you not bridging.



Read some reviews on the forum for these drivers and see if they meet you needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah I didn't realize that about the pioneer. Could I use the dsp for just the crossovers and do TA with the radio ? Or would I just be better doing a 2 way ? I could also just use the built in crossovers for the mid and tweet on the Zapco I suppose and same for the JAD on the mid bass and just put the radio in standard mode ? Maybe I should just run a 2 way. I know I would be better off with a DSP but I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Steve did the TA with the amp in my last system and used the passive crossovers with the 3 way set and to me it sounded great. I'd just like to come close to that but louder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah the tweeters were cheap and rated for 100 watts RMS, in hindsight I should have read here more before buying them. Maybe just get the Stevens mids and tweets and run a 2 way ? I know I can put 300 watts to each mid if I buy the 2 ohm and run them stereo from 2 channels off the JAD800.0. Then I could do the same for the tweets from the Zapco unless they would hold up to 180 watts from the other 2 channels on the JAD. He doesn't have the wattage for the tweets listed on his FB store. Anyone know what they are rated for ?

If the Fatial Pro's you mentioned would be fine in place of tweeters that would be fine for me. Only thing is in active mode 1.25 khz is the minimum the pioneers crossover for tweeters. As to why I'm set on a Pioneer head unit, after 30 years of systems in cars I have had Alpine, Kenwood, and Blaupunkt head units crap out on me, but I have never had a pioneer die. In fact I am still running a DEH-58 in my hunting truck that I bought in the mid 90's.
 

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Yeah the tweeters were cheap and rated for 100 watts RMS, in hindsight I should have read here more before buying them. Maybe just get the Stevens mids and tweets and run a 2 way ? I know I can put 300 watts to each mid if I buy the 2 ohm and run them stereo from 2 channels off the JAD800.0. Then I could do the same for the tweets from the Zapco unless they would hold up to 180 watts from the other 2 channels on the JAD. He doesn't have the wattage for the tweets listed on his FB store. Anyone know what they are rated for ?

If the Fatial Pro's you mentioned would be fine in place of tweeters that would be fine for me. Only thing is in active mode 1.25 khz is the minimum the pioneers crossover for tweeters. As to why I'm set on a Pioneer head unit, after 30 years of systems in cars I have had Alpine, Kenwood, and Blaupunkt head units crap out on me, but I have never had a pioneer die. In fact I am still running a DEH-58 in my hunting truck that I bought in the mid 90's.
I wouldn't run the tweeter you bought. You keep mentioning power rating of the drivers. Its probably the least important feature you should be focusing on here.

You need to make a choice on how many amps and drivers you want to run. It wont hurt you too much to run a 3 way, but you're going to have to mess around with the amp xovers, extra wiring, etc.

The pioneer deck is pretty solid, use it in 3way network mode. It will have you covered for TA, most Xovers, and EQ. You'll get 75% of the way there compared against a DSP with more eq channels. If you do a 3 way by splitting the "HIGH" channel to the tweeter and midrange just keep the tweeter and midrange close together and use the midrange when measuring for TA.

Is your HU the DEH 80PRS?

Only issue folks have with the pioneer is the pico fuse issue. Just dont hot swap the RCAs.

You're right that a 2way with midbass and tweeter would be easier to setup with you HU. My experience is that tuning a fullrange and midbass is easier and gets you better results. Your choice, I would recommend a good tweeter that can play down to 2kHz or so.

couple tweeter ideas, smaller format that might work well on the pillars or sail panels. If you have a ton of space then you could look at large format. These are 1inch or larger so they wont fall behind in output.


If you're going to stick with the 3 way idea and need a tweeter for the very top end check out the dayton nd20, cheap and they have a few install options. Just cross them high (4000 or 5000 Hz). They're playing such a small portion of the range up there they will only see a couple watts.

depending on your mounting option.
 

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Yeah the tweeters were cheap and rated for 100 watts RMS, in hindsight I should have read here more before buying them. Maybe just get the Stevens mids and tweets and run a 2 way ? I know I can put 300 watts to each mid if I buy the 2 ohm and run them stereo from 2 channels off the JAD800.4. Then I could do the same for the tweets from the Zapco unless they would hold up to 180 watts from the other 2 channels on the JAD. He doesn't have the wattage for the tweets listed on his FB store. Anyone know what they are rated for ?
the JAD will put out 300 x4 @ 2ohm (tested) so you could fully power the midbass (MB6 or MB8 2 ohm models). I dont see a ton of specs on the stevens tweeters. Some more info if you look at the component sets. Fs around 650 Hz. Looks like could work great with a 2-2.5 kHz HPF in a 2 way.

Doesn't look like they test bridge but you can get an idea if you double the 2ohm. I have one and its great for midbass and currently powers my front sub.


If you just run a 2 way you wont even need the Zapco.
 

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This is a cheap full range driver that is very good for the price. If you are ok with raw drivers like the Audible Physics above Tangband makes some nice drivers. If your willing to stretch your budget a bit these are nice aswell and come with grills.


That's going to cost the price of the speaker to ship🤣
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
i haven't purchased a head unit yet, just going off the videos for the new ones that include TA, etc. I have 2 4 channel amps, plus a mono for subs, and already planned to install all 3 so I have options for that. Both amps have built in crossovers, the Zapco goes up to 3k I think, and the NVX up to 4/5k with 10x multiplier. If I go 3 way mids and tweets will be together on A Pillar or dash. I have a huge dash and lots of room for any size drivers. So if I didn't use the active crossover on the pioneer I could run mids say 500-3k and tweets 3k and up off the Zapco if that makes any sense. Or just go with the previously mentioned 3" full range and no tweeter. Basically if I go 2 way I can use crossovers with more slope options from radio, or 3 way using crossovers on the amps and less slope options. And as far as mentioning power handling, A. I don't want to blow anything, and B. the JL 3 ways I had would go into a protect mode it seemed if I played them full tilt for more than 2 or 3 songs. Seemed like the tweeter would shut down as it would sound muffled. I'd turn it down and it would come back. Maybe it was the amp, not sure, but I had that setup for 10 years and although I enjoyed the clarity and staging, I'd like to go back to something louder like my older systems I had. The Mustang was my first "SQ" setup, and also the only time I ever paid for an install. Edited to say I'd like to have both louder and decent imaging and clarity. I know I'm not Steve and don't claim to be, but I can read a tape measure and probably fine tune to my ear from there if need be.
 

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i haven't purchased a head unit yet, just going off the videos for the new ones that include TA, etc. I have 2 4 channel amps, plus a mono for subs, and already planned to install all 3 so I have options for that. Both amps have built in crossovers, the Zapco goes up to 3k I think, and the NVX up to 4/5k with 10x multiplier. If I go 3 way mids and tweets will be together on A Pillar or dash. I have a huge dash and lots of room for any size drivers. So if I didn't use the active crossover on the pioneer I could run mids say 500-3k and tweets 3k and up off the Zapco if that makes any sense. Or just go with the previously mentioned 3" full range and no tweeter. Basically if I go 2 way I can use crossovers with more slope options from radio, or 3 way using crossovers on the amps and less slope options. And as far as mentioning power handling, A. I don't want to blow anything, and B. the JL 3 ways I had would go into a protect mode it seemed if I played them full tilt for more than 2 or 3 songs. Seemed like the tweeter would shut down as it would sound muffled. I'd turn it down and it would come back. Maybe it was the amp, not sure, but I had that setup for 10 years and although I enjoyed the clarity and staging, I'd like to go back to something louder like my older systems I had. The Mustang was my first "SQ" setup, and also the only time I ever paid for an install.
That sounds like some install issues with the prior setup. I'm not aware of protection mode for speaker, certainly amps do. Dont worry about the power handling. You're looking for sensitivity which you get with more PA style drivers like the stevens MB midbass or FaitalPRO mids. Tweeters wont run out of power handling if the HPF is appropriately set. You'll probably run HPF higher in general with PA drivers vs HIFI drivers. Midbass will probably be around 100Hz (8" might be good at 80Hz) and midrange at 500 Hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Probably this one as it has all the features I think I would want/need
 
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