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Re: 150,000 watts of bass

So I went to see the 2016 version of this last night in Dallas - the Paradox tour. Something reminded me of this thread last week and I looked up Excision and saw that he happened to be playing not far from me the following weekend so I decided to go and see what it's like. I'm normally a hard rock/heavy metal guy and have been to dozens of concerts for those kind of bands but nothing electronic like this.

It was an indoor warehouse type venue for 3-4000 people. The advertised 150,000 watt system included a pair of 7-cabinet PK Trinity steerable line arrays and full stage width of double stacked CX800 subwoofer cabinets (around 40 total I'd think, so 80 18" subs).

Seems like they definitely fixed the issue talked about I think in this thread where the opening acts got everything too heated up before the headliner to the point breakers started tripping. That was not a factor last night - the openers were at least 6dB on average lower in volume than Excision, so it was a noticeable increase when he started. I found myself thinking my car could probably keep up with the output during the openers, but the main act was on a different level.

Anyway, I stood next to the FOH engineer, so around 40-50 feet from the stage and pretty well centered. The effect probably would have been even more so if I was front row, but regardless, it was pretty intense. I wouldn't quite say it sucked the air out of my lungs, but it did make breathing feel different, hit the resonant frequency of my nostrils, made my clothing vibrate, punched me in the chest, and I could feel the air pressure in my hair as well. It was most intense from 45-90Hz, but there were times where you could hear it dropped down into the low 20's with usable output. The best part is that with the prodigious output, there are no distracting rattles or vibrations from a seat, car interior panels, or stuff mounted on walls or in drawers in a house, and no weird modes or nulls. It's super clean, and like Patrick discussed somewhere on here, the lack of harmonics in the deep bass keeps it from sounding muddy even at very high levels.

So all in all it was pretty cool. I could have done without 3 hours of opening DJs since at the end of the day, a lot of this dubstep stuff is pretty formulaic and sounds pretty much the same. But with Excision's laser/projection setup combined with the impressive sound, it was definitely a neat experience.
 

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Yeah idk what subs they use. Says they're neo motors, 5.3" coils, and 28mm of xmax. Could probably narrow it down pretty good with that.

Also I think my estimate of 40 cabinets may have been off, it was probably more like 30. Worth noting is that the amp in the Trinity cabinets is actually super powerful - 3x more so than the amp in the CX800 subs. 6000W vs 2000W. So I'm sure the 150KW includes the arrays too, meaning they account for over half of the 150KW. So it was probably more like 60KW of bass - 2000W x 30 cabinets. Lot of sound either way.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Yeah idk what subs they use. Says they're neo motors, 5.3" coils, and 28mm of xmax. Could probably narrow it down pretty good with that.

Also I think my estimate of 40 cabinets may have been off, it was probably more like 30. Worth noting is that the amp in the Trinity cabinets is actually super powerful - 3x more so than the amp in the CX800 subs. 6000W vs 2000W. So I'm sure the 150KW includes the arrays too, meaning they account for over half of the 150KW. So it was probably more like 60KW of bass - 2000W x 30 cabinets. Lot of sound either way.
18 Sound 18NLW9600 is the driver

IIRC, the amps are now Powersoft but they used to be sourced from a different company
 

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Discussion Starter #65
I don't think the whole rig was ever deployed all at once but if it was,probably a lot of that wattage is marketing.


I regularly work with a rig that's using 12 crown k2 amps bridged at 1600 rms into a pair of horn loaded 15s on each amp. it is..very powerful, also very big and not tour/truckpack friendly. but the sound I get out of this old no compromise cabinet design with updated drivers and power is nothing short of amazing.

I cant find a pic of it for obvious reasons but if you google image search "klipsche mcm1900 burning man" you will see pics of the rig..it doesn't just go to burning man.
Over on diyaudio I crunched the numbers, comparing a 90s style set up with horns, versus a PK style setup with vented boxes. I figured that the PK setup would CRUSH the old school setup, since I've never heard bass that was anywhere near as disorienting as a PK sound setup.

Much to my surprise, the SPL levels were about the same, when I compared the two.

I believe the big difference is the cutoff; the vented boxes play about an octave deeper. It's that ability to hammer the audience with frequencies around 30-40hz.

Part of it may be the music too; I've been listening to this music for over twenty years now, and somewhere around ten years ago the musicians started to gravitate towards tracks where there are long breaks between the bass. Dubstep is the most obvious example of this; there's no bass for the first forty seconds, and then the drop comes in, the bass is there for a minute or two, and then the next track comes on.

That forty second gap doesn't just give the audience a break, it also gives the speakers a break, and probably allows them to be pushed harder and longer. I don't recall music from the 90s doing this, like house or techno. Techno in particular tended to be really monotonous. When I went to DEMF it was kinda difficult to figure out when the tracks changes because they frequently sound the same.

 

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18 Sound 18NLW9600 is the driver

IIRC, the amps are now Powersoft but they used to be sourced from a different company
Ah ok. So the 28mm was p-p xmax. 14mm one way. Looks like PK could put a good bit more power to 'em if they wanted.
 

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If it's Powersoft or Powersoft amps, then they are using the 18id sub, not the NLW9600. At least according to the Voice Coil review of the sub last month.
 

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I don't know about the audio guys, but when I do shows(LED video) we typically have the show gear plus 10% for spares on hand. If the 72 number is close, then that's still a LOT of amps.
I was wondering more about 720,000 watts in the Staples Center for an awards show. Seemed like a lot.
 

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It does seem like a lot but they probably just brought a bunch of the same model amp because it was easy and they could be used for anything. From the description, it wasn't just a pair of line arrays and some subs. Those amps ran every speaker making sound that night. While fewer amps probably could have powered everything easily, all the upper level fills, monitors, and everything need to have their own channels for DSP, input, and t/a, so that more than actual power requirements is likely what necessitated so man amplifiers.
 
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