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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
got the civic si steering wheel buttons working today. I did the whole wheel and got aftermarket illuminated buttons. Used the paddle shifters as vol up/down. Had to re-wire the wheel a bit. All works and is good . Gotta love the SWIRC
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Did you figure out how to disable the Honda ELD?
Yeah, there's a few different ways to do it . I want to keep the pcm codes working, yet I want full power mode on demand.

So , after studying the ELD schematic on all data and other sources I have found a way to "trick" the ELD into going into high power mode with some resistors. And some basic wire tapping.

What I want to do is add a 2nd external voltage regulator to control the add on circuit. There's guys that have done the mod by use of a toggle switch, I want it to do it on its own.

I think I should be able to use the regulator and a tr7 to trigger the in/outs to the custom circut.

It's the only way I can think of to controlling it. If it dosent work I'll use a toggle switch .
 

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Nice progress! Si steering wheel. No wheels. Big alternator.. Dang son!
 
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Got the wheels today!! Woot woot




screen cap
I see you got dem 420 edition wheels... :)
I've been following your build and just had a question:
What are the pros and cons of horns in a car, from your experience?
Is it that they have better off-axis response and can be crossed lower, raising the sound stage, plus higher effciency? Why are some people against horns in a car?
Thanks!
And we need some shots of the wheels & steering wheel mounted :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
I see you got dem 420 edition wheels... :)
I've been following your build and just had a question:
What are the pros and cons of horns in a car, from your experience?
Is it that they have better off-axis response and can be crossed lower, raising the sound stage, plus higher effciency? Why are some people against horns in a car?
Thanks!
And we need some shots of the wheels & steering wheel mounted :)
thanks for lookin and responding.
Yeah horns are kinda tricky to get to sound good. Only in the sence that they get very very loud with very very little distortion. So that leads a lot of first time horn users to over gain them. They are a bit tricky to eq as well and tune. But the benefits are well worth it.

They are very forward sounding. They really put the high end concert pa sound in a car very easily.

The only real cons about car horns other than tuning is horn honk, or higher order modes. Horn honk is when the mouth of the horn is not terminated correctly. A user might try to eq out the honk or barking sound to get them to sound good but at the expense of frequency response. Like 1.2k is a big problem for most horns. It's the band where the mouth of the horn/size reaches wavelength. The high pressure air from inside the mouth will break and become low pressure and will have a snapping sound. Properly mounting the horn under the dash (or where ever) extending the horn flare reduces honk dramatically. If one can't get good termination a higher crossover point is the only option. That way the high pressure to low pressure changes happens inside the horn and the flare on the horn acts like a round over somewhat.

HIgher order modes or HOM is where there's diffraction and reflection inside the horn. A frequency can bounce around inside the horn and basically get louder. It's like a harmonic side band that is too loud. If one try's to eq it than you are eqing down fundamentals so the system won't sound correct. Some sort of padding can be used to filter out HOMs. Foam is most popular and works very well. But a good mouth termination and proper mounting of the horns as a pair can minimize these problem.

This may sound intimidating but really it can be dealt with, I could give you more reasons why not to use a direct radiator.

The good thing about car horns is there off axis responce and pattern control. It's crazy how well they get sound to go upwards and place L/C/R information across the sound stage with articulate perfection for both sides of the car.

In my experience not every car works very very good with horns. About 75% of cars will work very well. The other 25% (just a wild guess) the seats are too forward and lower dash line is too low. Someone could make modifications in these kinds of cars to get them to work. These are typically a suv with a very tall dash and a seat that dosent go very far back and very large center consoles. Even in those cars good imaging can be achieved with a soundstage slightly below the top of the dash. Most cars tho sound stage is above the dash.

As far as pics go :) yeah ill post some pics of the wheel up tonight. That was such a fun mod to do. Nothing like getting a modification done in a hour and have it work flawlessly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Did some cutting today. Got the hole in the dash sized up for the horns.

Cut 10" of dash away, I just figured 10" Is roughly 1000hz and is the leinght of the horn mouth , so might as well have that much area in front of the horn.

I'm going to cut the rain tray/fire wall next and get the horn to sit flush up against it. The horn motors will be out side the car.

Also did some testing with some test speakers in that location. Images good in both seats. If I add 2" of TA it locks the center in, so it looks like I might have to play with that when comes time to tune. I'll either have one seat image good and the other image excellent, or have both image good. We'll have to see what happens.

The cool part is when I have zero TA the vocal image is just beyond the windshield and nicely center. I'm going to have to get used to listening this way it's so diffrent than the last car. My first reaction is start playing with TA to get the vocal center on the dash board. It's just center mid hood now.

It will also be intresting to see how the horn and midrange combo images together.
The more experiment with it it seems like I might be able to mount the midrange firing up torwards the windshield. I'll have better PLD doing that but I really don't want to fire a speaker into the glass. I want to use the glass as a wave guide not a reflector.

Hopefully I will cut the metal tomorrow or the next day. And get the horns in there home












 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
So I was only able to cut half the horn depth into fire wall. It's still sunk in. It still mates up windshield. The driver side had a dam wiper motor that made it so I could either cut the horn off by 2" or have it stick out 1". I have it stick out 1".

The cuts are done, now time to fab the a pillar Windows and the horn shroud. I'm going make a HUGE round over for the horns that mates it to windshield.

Will be fun!
 

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thanks for lookin and responding.
Yeah horns are kinda tricky to get to sound good. Only in the sence that they get very very loud with very very little distortion. So that leads a lot of first time horn users to over gain them. They are a bit tricky to eq as well and tune. But the benefits are well worth it.

They are very forward sounding. They really put the high end concert pa sound in a car very easily.

The only real cons about car horns other than tuning is horn honk, or higher order modes. Horn honk is when the mouth of the horn is not terminated correctly. A user might try to eq out the honk or barking sound to get them to sound good but at the expense of frequency response. Like 1.2k is a big problem for most horns. It's the band where the mouth of the horn/size reaches wavelength. The high pressure air from inside the mouth will break and become low pressure and will have a snapping sound. Properly mounting the horn under the dash (or where ever) extending the horn flare reduces honk dramatically. If one can't get good termination a higher crossover point is the only option. That way the high pressure to low pressure changes happens inside the horn and the flare on the horn acts like a round over somewhat.

HIgher order modes or HOM is where there's diffraction and reflection inside the horn. A frequency can bounce around inside the horn and basically get louder. It's like a harmonic side band that is too loud. If one try's to eq it than you are eqing down fundamentals so the system won't sound correct. Some sort of padding can be used to filter out HOMs. Foam is most popular and works very well. But a good mouth termination and proper mounting of the horns as a pair can minimize these problem.

This may sound intimidating but really it can be dealt with, I could give you more reasons why not to use a direct radiator.

The good thing about car horns is there off axis responce and pattern control. It's crazy how well they get sound to go upwards and place L/C/R information across the sound stage with articulate perfection for both sides of the car.

In my experience not every car works very very good with horns. About 75% of cars will work very well. The other 25% (just a wild guess) the seats are too forward and lower dash line is too low. Someone could make modifications in these kinds of cars to get them to work. These are typically a suv with a very tall dash and a seat that dosent go very far back and very large center consoles. Even in those cars good imaging can be achieved with a soundstage slightly below the top of the dash. Most cars tho sound stage is above the dash.

As far as pics go :) yeah ill post some pics of the wheel up tonight. That was such a fun mod to do. Nothing like getting a modification done in a hour and have it work flawlessly.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the pros & cons of horns in a car! I had no idea about any of that.
The dash mat stitching is a nice touch!
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Spent the whole day in the sun in fab. Massive sub burn .

Totally kinda bummed about my triple configuration sub box. My idea is not going to work.

It could work and I probably will do it at some point but the spare tire well is only 4" deep. I went to cut it out and realized there's some serious structural beams that go through it on the bottom of car.

I do t have a welder or a metal shop. So, I think I'm going to do the amps and batteries in spare tire well and do a regular sealed box.

On the good side of things my dash fab is going good. Got the horns Nicely tucked away into the cowl. My projected PLD of 4" turned out to be 5" after mounting them and measureing. Ill take it. The bad side of things the PLD where the mids will go will not be that low. I'm going to have to stick with some off axis a pillar mounting. If I go on axis (I can get 6"PLD but than the left side speaker blocks the edge of horn that's parrellel with left ear. I don't want to loose that direct sound so , I'll opt for slightly off axis and get 7-9" PLD. 9" on the close side of driver and 7" on the far side of driver:

I think it will still work pretty good in both seats as long as I aim them correctly. I've been testing with a few diffrent test speakers and got it to work. Nice center , good width. And for god sakes no time alignment.

I'm very worried that the custom work will block stuff , I'm been thinking very hard how I'm going to make it look good and sound correct.

The car is going to definitely have the look of a sound studio with all the sound absorbing paneling I'm installing In lower windshield and sides of dash area. It seems it's the only way I can get it to work right on both seats. It's just starting to look like too much foam. I'm going to have to make cuts to it and find where it makes a difference and where it dosent and than somehow integrate that into a decent looking install.

I'm definitely going to keep some very unexpected elements as a suprise for the end. Let's just say I ran a extra set of wires to the dash. And no I don't mean for a center channel.

It definitely has to be able to swap drivers easily. I love trying new speakers and sizes too much to be stuck with a install that has to use one set of drivers.

So far I would say I'm 70%aprx to my original ideas and 30% has changed from the 1st post.

I threw in the p99. I'm having some issues before I buy the x008. I just found out the optical output dosent have a volume control from the deck. That's really dumb.

I was thinking maybe get an old PAC swc module that does IR and send vol up/down buttons over a diffrent swc module to the 2x4hds . I have to make sure that will work before I do that tho. So I stick with the p99 for now until I get that all sorted out,
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Got the minidsp 2x4HDs installed.
The lower glove box houses 4 dsp's , 2in 4out. For a total of 16 dsp channels.

Yeah I'm a FIR snob I guess. Soon everyone will be doing it and it will be commonplace, the advantages are far too good (one you learn how to make a good set of filters ;) )

I'm going to use two platforms to make my FIR filters. Filter hose and re-phase. Running 96k sample rate.

Anyway got them all installed and playing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Glad I haven't ordered the other two FPS amps.
Might just stick with the setup I already have based solely on space.

This setup fits like a glove. I don't think I have the room for two more class AB amps.

I'm not 100% on this but maybe I can stack an amp underneath the board and have a couple up on top of it but than I would have to raise the floor.

If I keep this setup (which is a proven setup) it will fit as is , and the stock cover will go on and no one would be able to tell anything is even in the trunk. I kinda liking this idea.














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Got the minidsp 2x4HDs installed.
The lower glove box houses 4 dsp's , 2in 4out. For a total of 16 dsp channels.

Yeah I'm a FIR snob I guess. Soon everyone will be doing it and it will be commonplace, the advantages are far too good (one you learn how to make a good set of filters ;) )

I'm going to use two platforms to make my FIR filters. Filter hose and re-phase. Running 96k sample rate.

Anyway got them all installed and playing.
Wow, so you'll cascade 2 pairs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
Wow, so you'll cascade 2 pairs?
I'll Just use 1/2 of each one. The 2x4hd has 4096 taps available. 2048 for left and 2048 for right. With a 96k impulse response I will need at least 2048 taps per speaker to get the level of convoluteability (new word maybe?). Low amounts of taps can have pre ringing and other artifacts of a FIR filter that is undesirable. Although I've used the standard 1024 taps at 96k and had no ill effects, but for some of the filters I've been making it requires more taps. I'm doing linear phase crossovers as well as some all pass fir filters. And basicly making fir filters that add delay/phase changes to parts of a speakers bandwidth.

I've been playing with the 2x4hds enough and taught myself with the help of andy wehmeyer and Simon aka Hanatsu. And a few others. I think I've got pretty good at making fir filters. They sure do sound good at least so that must mean something. Still No expert , but I plan on becoming one :D that **** is fun to do !

So yeah, I just want to be able to have more taps so I got 4 seperate units.

Also , the p99 has 4way active and it's nice to keep and use the crossovers in the p99 however , I have been using LR crossovers so I won't use the 4way in the p99. Just use it as full range outputs .

I wouldn't cascade dsp's , going from d to a back to d back to a is enough punishment on the signal,

If I can get the volume sorted out I will go ahead and buy the x008 and use optical into the dsp's just for that reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Got the wire braids today. What a pain in the ass to put on 16' leinghts. Looks super nice tho. I honestly don't care about this kind of install gear, but now that I have my first set it is pretty nice.

Just way too much work, split loom goes sooooooo much faster
 

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I'll Just use 1/2 of each one. The 2x4hd has 4096 taps available. 2048 for left and 2048 for right. With a 96k impulse response I will need at least 2048 taps per speaker to get the level of convoluteability (new word maybe?). Low amounts of taps can have pre ringing and other artifacts of a FIR filter that is undesirable. Although I've used the standard 1024 taps at 96k and had no ill effects, but for some of the filters I've been making it requires more taps. I'm doing linear phase crossovers as well as some all pass fir filters. And basicly making fir filters that add delay/phase changes to parts of a speakers bandwidth.

I've been playing with the 2x4hds enough and taught myself with the help of andy wehmeyer and Simon aka Hanatsu. And a few others. I think I've got pretty good at making fir filters. They sure do sound good at least so that must mean something. Still No expert , but I plan on becoming one :D that **** is fun to do !

So yeah, I just want to be able to have more taps so I got 4 seperate units.

Also , the p99 has 4way active and it's nice to keep and use the crossovers in the p99 however , I have been using LR crossovers so I won't use the 4way in the p99. Just use it as full range outputs .

I wouldn't cascade dsp's , going from d to a back to d back to a is enough punishment on the signal,

If I can get the volume sorted out I will go ahead and buy the x008 and use optical into the dsp's just for that reason.
Cool, I hope you'll document your future tuning process too :p.
Not too much of a pain to manage 4 devices separately? Or did you find a solution for plugging them all in the same time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Cool, I hope you'll document your future tuning process too :p.
Not too much of a pain to manage 4 devices separately? Or did you find a solution for plugging them all in the same time?
Manage them seperatly, lol yeah but the more complex it gets the more fun it is to stay on top of that t all.

I basicly have 4 diffrent USB cords that come out of glove box, there marked sub/low/mid/high

Yes I will definitely post up some measurements and such
 
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