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Discussion Starter · #901 ·
I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around lower sensitivity mids being sandwiched in between high-ish sensitivity midbass (SA-6 w/ 90db @1w) and obviously the ridiculous sensitivity of HLCDs (108 @ 1w for instance). Somehow in there we throw something like the 3.5wm from focal that has 88 @ 2.83v which according to my calculations is ~83db @ 1w/1m. According to its spec sheet we only can throw "max power" of 100w at it which gives us 103db. Not much for dynamic range for our mids.

Granted ... 1khz - 4khz is arguably our most attenuated frequencies, so thus our midrange can be the least sensitive driver in our system. Midbass typically doesn't get the same boost that our subwoofers get from cabin gain, so they really are the ones doing the heavy lifting in terms of sensitivity since they are playing into the 80hz-200hz region which according to most (not all) house curves is where we need to see that rising response and those extra db. We have talked previously and I know that you aren't necessarily a subscriber to the typical house curves that many are using (1/2 whitledge, Audiofrog, etc).

But all this always makes me wonder about sandwiching an average sensitivity mid in between a high sensitivity midbass and an HLCD. I know Mic recommended doing the same thing, so its obviously working for serious competitors. My newb brain just can't grasp it. What am I missing?

Also obviously any good midrange is going to do just fine. Dyn's, Focals, etc. Nobody is complaining about them. It's just them sandwiched in between extreme sensitivity HLCDs and high sensitivity midbass.
i love some good high sensitivity drivers
But I’ve also found I would cut so much from them to get sq because of cone resonance and breakup , although they would get mean loud , at times the con noise would be louder than the detail

so I’m very torn in between where I like to be as far as sensitivity goes

i’ll tell you what though, these new drivers will get plenty loud for me and my goodness they just don’t have any break up at all..... it’s crazy how well behaved they are ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #903 ·
Got the 1st round done

so far.... good.... the stevens set definitely stands up to these....

my wife says “it sounds the same” lol

and I would say it’s mostly the same also....

the sa6 amd the 6wm are very similar. The 6wm is a little bit more midbass but it bottoms out pretty dam bad when I crossed at 80 where the stevens did not

so the 6wm is crossed at 250 with a self defined 2nd order Q.7 and with a HK- 1k ratio 2.4

the 3wm is HK also 1k to 2.7k (which is the equivalent to a LR8 1400,3000)

8wm is 80,250

tweet is cascade filters LR2 at 3k and a 1st order at 1500 keeps the shape of a LR2 but gets me -17db at fs with more attinuarion at 2k
 

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2011 Prius rsx gs9>apl1 >helix dsp ultra>2 brax mx4’s &jl Audio 600/1> full focal Utopia m
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I honestly think you should be using beyma, b&c and those pro audio speakers, please don’t take it the wrong way but I think that you’re asking for too much from the speakers that you’re using right now, I recently did a system for a customer that left a deposit for a morel 3way with 1 ultimo 12” and when he and his friend came to drop off the truck, a customer that I did b&c 8pe21’s, beyma ast 60sq’s and (2) 12w7’s in a Lexus for was there shaking the block and the customer switched on the spot and wanted that spl but would still like to have good imaging and staging so I went with all beyma and a single 12w7 with a solid tune and he couldn’t be happier. Maybe you should try this route, your ears will tap out long before the speakers do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #905 · (Edited)
I honestly think you should be using beyma, b&c and those pro audio speakers, please don’t take it the wrong way but I think that you’re asking for too much from the speakers that you’re using right now, I recently did a system for a customer that left a deposit for a morel 3way with 1 ultimo 12” and when he and his friend came to drop off the truck, a customer that I did b&c 8pe21’s, beyma ast 60sq’s and (2) 12w7’s in a Lexus for was there shaking the block and the customer switched on the spot and wanted that spl but would still like to have good imaging and staging so I went with all beyma and a single 12w7 with a solid tune and he couldn’t be happier. Maybe you should try this route, your ears will tap out long before the speakers do.
you honestly should hear my car .... lol
There’s nothing I could post that could come close to how it sounds...

It is the best car I’ve ever heard ..... easily, and I’ve had all the Beymas and b&cs i have a garage full of them

im Not trying to be super loud

just want to be able to play comfortably loud without melting or even getting warm any driver

in the past , right when I would get things just right a 30w midrange would go..... I can play comfortably loud now , and zero damage!

I mean , why would I want to do that ?
I don’t like w7s (there just boring) and why would I want all that resonance?
 

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you honestly should hear my car .... lol
There’s nothing I could post that could come close to how it sounds...

It is the best car I’ve ever heard ..... easily, and I’ve had all the Beymas and b&cs i have a garage full of them

im Not trying to be super loud

just want to be able to play comfortably loud without melting or even getting warm any driver

in the past , right when I would get things just right a 30w midrange would go..... I can play comfortably loud now , and zero damage!

I mean , why would I want to do that ?
I don’t like w7s (there just boring) and why would I want all that resonance?
I apologize for the wrong judgment, I just don’t understand your system but it’s clearly is working for you so rock on man👍🏿
 

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Discussion Starter · #907 · (Edited)
I apologize for the wrong judgment, I just don’t understand your system but it’s clearly is working for you so rock on man👍🏿
no worries :)

theres nothing like a goodhorn system... and Beyma g40s and all of that , I ran horns for a 20 year run on at least one car, and still have horns in my van with a 6ch focal amp and dexp99

it’s dope AF but this car is all about sq

My goal with this car is to have it sound like I have a dam nice set of bookshelves in front of me with a sub

I’ve achieved that, that’s all I wanted, really dam good sq with a huge deep sound field and placement that is perfect.

im not after the immersive wide sound (although it’s great) that’s not my system goals... I want the sound to be in front of me, easy to listen to (non fatiguing) and pinpoint accuracy on imaging and staging with excellent realism , ambiance in the sound field , and free of resonance and breakup in the speaker.

could it be wider? Sure, that doesn’t mean better. could it be more efficient? Sure, I’m not trying to be super loud.

and a serious note on efficiency.... once the phase is good and all the speakers are working together, and not fighting eachother because of all these time shifts caused by crossovers the system efficiency massively goes up... massively!

Everyone has heard “50w in a home is a lot where 50w in a car isn’t much”
Well guess what .....
 

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the new epique M-mag 7”

14.5mm linear one way excursion
Full copper sleeve
Triple stack magnets (ferrite neo hybrid)
Dual voice coil like an XBL but a bit different only that it’s overhung instead of underhung. But it’s basically an XBL idea

this fvucking thing gets with it oh my goodness.... it does way more then I expected and I had high expectations...

more almost 5” deep I have a thread with pics on the technical forums ....
XBL2 is a single coil in a dual gap setup not dual split coil like a jbl gti
 

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Discussion Starter · #910 ·
So on oct 6,7 I’m redoing my grills , making the rings way way nicer , going to try to do my vynil in back also amd tweeter pods
 

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Discussion Starter · #912 ·
1st run on these.... sounds mostly the same as the dyn , it’s a snappy little fvcker tho. Definitely has quite superb detail, anti resonance.... i have them barley moving and tons of output. So it’s a sensitive one. The sensitivity seems to be good down low which is rare IME
 

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Discussion Starter · #913 ·
Overall..... about the same as the stevens SA6CS and dyn 8s

a tiny bit more detail , and realizm is top notch. It sounds like a hi end system (not that it didn’t before, it’s just more obvious now.

worth the price.... eek.... yeah and no

yeah because there really is no other speaker set that can do this quality out of the box, and still has excellent SQ even if a complete rook was tuning.

the 8s are ugly. There hideous looking, but very good sounding.
 

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Probably figured out that a simpler system sounds much better that 600 speakers
 

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Discussion Starter · #919 ·
I figured out a long time a go how pu**y works. What I can't figure out is what's attached to it! How does that work?
Probably figured out that a simpler system sounds much better that 600 speakers
Well it’s a 12ch system, and that’s what most ppl use these days..... i usea sub, 2 sets of bass drivers , a midbass , a midrange and a tweeter.

so that’s not it 600......but I get what you mean and no it’s not that...

my discovery is based on summing of speakers and the use of signal delay...
what is the most correct thing to do.

i know the answer , and maybe a few others know,... I’ll post it in the technical when I’m ready to reveal it
 
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