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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
hi guys and gals...

this is a mercedes benz, mb 100 van install im currently working on for what was a customer.. now a freind.. :)

the install request was something loud ( about or above 150db),
and sounding as good as possible..

subs = reconed w6v1 12inch.... 6 of them.. ported box, tuned to 34hz..
mono amp, = kicker zx 2500.1, which is actually 2780.1 at 2ohm on the birth certificate it came with..

speakers = focal kp 100 four inch... two sets up on the dash.. currently one there, install is still underway but can be listened too while the rest is completed..

amp for the above splits = 650.4 zx kicker amp.. 170rmsx4 at 4ohm i believe from memory..

midbass = currently, the focal kbe, bass extension kit.. 6.5 inch, its doing nothing really, but fills the hole in the door,lol..

midbass going in = morel sw 9inch.. in each door, using modified and strengthened factory locations...

amp for midbass = identical to amp for the splits, but bridged, and will supply 325rms at 4ohm... using the rear rca outputs and using hpf and lpf of the headunit and amp to filter the signal they recieve..

batteries = aux batt = optima d34.... factory battery in factory location aswell.. also, has stinger battery isolator, stinger wiring, and 2 x3farad cadence capacitors..

sound deadene = mix of dynamatt, and option audio.. roof,doors and floor are done completely...
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
the van as it stands finished... 3amps, and 6x 12inch jl audio w6vi



test fit of box and amp rack before wiring the subs up..




passenger side A- pilar... focal kp100... four inch splits.... eventually will have two of each here.. the next set built just beside them in a pod that will sweep from side to side of the dashboard..



the cabin... reverse cameras and mirror image visor screens.. head units are pioneer 9650 for audio, and an exad jvc unit for the reverse cam and dvd functions..



roof linig..(old installer, that was sacked because of dodgy workmanship and average install techniques..)
it has a jl audio logo in the roof, and YES those are tweeters, though i didnt do that, im actually drilling them out and tapping about 5 LED'S into them to act as down lights..



close up of pods...



more build pics to come, and wiring and battery pics too..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)




panel was traced with boc in place.. i measued in 35mm and cut the sqaure out.. then cut the rectangle out above that for the amp rack window, trimmed it, and put an 8mm thick acrylic window in..






heres a shot that shows the size of the box and panel well...



more box building pics, the box is two layers of 18mm mdf, glued and screwed together..









more pics coming
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
home made jasper jig ive knocked up to cut out 6/6.5/10/12/15 inch holes for speaekrs/subs..



trimming the face of the box before being installed for the final fitment..



SOUND DEADENING

the van has been completely covered with dynamatt and option audio...

doors recived a layer on the outer skin, then had the service holes covered with 3mm mdf templates, i then gaffa taped them in palce and dynamatted over the top.. there pretty solid sounding door panels now..



seats and every thing else came out for the deadener and some new wiring to be ran...



0G EARTH LUG... into the chassis of the van.. locked in place so it cant shake loose... anything is possible when its flexing the way it does.. the roof flexes about 3cm..



0G power cable was ran under the van in and out,using gromets because it had to pass the side door from the batteries located on the passenger side rear of the van.. this was done to avoid it being pinched or broken while the owner is working and loading things thru the side door..




location of optima d34 battery, other battery is located about 30 inches from the optima on the same side.. the battery is located inside it own enclosure, with a door to access it.. it will eventually be trimmed and have a window for veiwing when the van is at comps,etc..




close up of 3 farad cadence capacitor... OG wiring in and out of these..



this pic is taken from the rear of the wall panel.. the box is about to be slid forward and bracketed to the panel...



this pic shows the wiring from one of the 4ch amps.. the fans are located on the right and left top of the rack, in a push / pull configuration to vent any hot air...




more pics to come...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
the pic below shows the wiring from the amp rack.. its dropped off the side of the box and into the distro blocks located on the side. visable in the next pic...





cover panel was made over the capacitors.. there is an acrylic window in this now, and its trimmed in the same material as the box and wall panell... there was also a trim peice that sits inside the cut out so the caps are not visable when not needed to be..



progress pic of pod construction..



visor screens were disasembled and painted to match interior and A-pillar pods..



 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
amp rack build pics... the amps are mounted by placing the mono block at the rear,then screwing and wiring it in, then mounting the 4ch staggered in front.. the mono block must be screwred in first because you can only acess the screws thru the cut outs of the 4ch mounting boards.. they serve a twin purpose, A= to keep the air flowing around the amps, and B = to access the mounting screws as mentioned.. the amp rack was later painted with black acrylic paint, and pre wired before being lifted onto the box inside the van and wired up in place..





a couple of buil;d pics of the A-pillar pods...
the pods where built originally for some pioneer splits, but eventually the owner was talked into buying some decent speakers.. it makes no sense spending big money on installing cheap speakers.. so we went with focals for the front stage... they were built like they are in the pics, so the midrange was kept isolated from the tweeter.. the tweeter mount was added latter after the bulk of the pod was fibreglassed like in the pics..

the holes are drilled to help adheasion and to blen the two into one peice.. the resin will go thru the holes and create bubbles on the rear of the trim which helps with stregth of the pod..



pic below shows the pod before the teeeter being added...



some fibreglass reinforced filler being added...



below is a pic of the two pods finished and loaded ready to install...



well, thats it.. for now..

as mentioned there will be some more speakers going in, i'll update this thread with pics of the head units, and battery locations etc, and pics of the trimmed board around the caps very soon..

hope you like it..

and your probably wondering... it hit 150.5 on the term lab, with 2780rms...

plan to add about 10 000rms to the subs via two amps, daily use will be ran from one amp, and comp use will require hooking up the second amp for more output... either some digital designs hv amps, or some xxx series soundstream amps is what im thinking along the lines of..

if any one has any other recomendations on good qaulity amps for this install mono blocks that is, pls comment.. keep in mind it would need to be two amps, able to run at 2ohm when one is conected, and 2or less when two is conected... and stil put out aboput 5000rms each amp..

thanks for looking... updates will be done soon..

BRAD..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
AFTER SOME ADVICE ON AMPS.. THEY WOULD NEED TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE 6OHM DVC SUBS IN GROUPS OF THREE AND 6....

3 off one amp and 3 off the other for com use, and then for daily use, go back to one amp.. 6 subs = 2ohm load and about 4000rms would be good for daily use.. any ideas..
 

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hate to be the bearer of bad news but they put the steering wheel on the wrong side, and in the picture of the amp rack in the house I can see your ball sack hanging out, other than that looks like a cool project
 

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Why would you run 3 subs on 1 amp and the other 3 on the other when it needs to be crazy loud and all 6 subs on 1 amp when it needs to be just loud?
I guess that would be some complicated wiring.

Why not just run 1 coil of all 6 subs on one amp and the other coil of all 6 subs on the other one?
That way you can half the power(consumption) for daily use by simply switching only 1 amp on, and using full power by switching them both on.
This would give you a 6ohm/6coils=1ohm load per amplifier, so if you pick 2 amps that deliver 4000W at 1 ohm, you get 4000W for daily use and 8000W when both amps are used, without difficult/complicated wiring.

Why make it more complicated than you need to?



About the rest of the system: I like the Focal mids, I like the fact that you'll use 9" Morel midbasswoofers, but I simply hate Focal tweeters, especially in systems that not only have to sound good on lower volume levels, standing still at a sound quality game, but also have to be able to get pretty loud or even very loud.
Even the top-of-the-line tweeters (Utopia Be, TLR) just aren't made to get loud, if you try it, they make dogs 2 streets away run even further away and if you keep trying, you blow them, they just aren't made to get loud...

Dynaudio MD100/102's would be a big step in the good way, I did that before, the system of a friend of mine is chosen and partly built by me.
He originally had 2 JL 13W3v3's taking about 1200W RMS and a Focal Polyglass component set taking 2x150W RMS (passive). In a Fiat Cinquecento, this gets more than loud enough to listen at (he doesn't do spl nor sq games). The sub sounded loud, deep and right, the midbass was okay (mids in sealed boxes on the doors), the midrange was fantastic but the highs were harsh at higher volume levels and a bit 'thin' at medium volume levels.
We simply replaced the tweeters by Dynaudio MD100's and switched the tweeter attenuation from -6dB to 0 and it was perfect, the highs sounded nice and full, a little laid back without missing detail and without becoming extremely harsh at higher volume levels.

greetz,
Isabelle
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks for he comments and recomendations on amps...

even some humor thrown in there too.. though my ball sack was empty at the time of the pic, it normally hangs lower and wider.. :p i'll have to get my mechanic to sheck the steering wheel out, ive never noticed that problem myself... :)

isabelle.. first of all, thank you for your thorough response.. its raised a few questioned in my head...

firstly, the question you asked, why run 3 on each amp to get really loud and 1 on all 6 to get loud.. well, my thinking tells me the more power i feed them for a comp the more spl id get.. then for daily use go back to one amp one all 6 so they dont fry from over powering them....

the way youve mentioned to run the amp and sub combo sounds fine, except for one thing, i thought you couldnt run dvc subs with only one coil hooked up.. i dont for a second doubt your knowledge, im asking you to elaberate on your suggestion pls... im not even sure where i got the idea ou cant run one coil, but its stuck in my head,so id be a bit hesitant to just go and do it because someone said it is ok.. you know what i mean? no disrepect intended at all...

i agree with you on the foical tweeter coments, to a degree... i think the k2 range leave the polyglass for dead, and the tweeters used in this install are not the polyglass harsher type tweeters.. the ones in the k2 range sing very nicely in my oppinion, but every one is diffrent hey... its a mater of preference and what enjoy.. im by no means saying they are the be all and end of speakers (focal in general im saying) but imo they do a good job, hence there reputation, it really is,as ive found a love them or hate them thing with focals..

after the install is complete, i'll demo some other tweeters, and the dynaudios you mentioned and see what i think later, but right now its a mater of beefing the alternator and battery sytem, then doing the sub amps.... in that order too,lol..

thanks..
 

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Powering only 1 coil of a DVC sub shouldn't be a problem, I did it before (using a DVC sub as a SVC, leaving 1 coil open) without any problems.
The only problem you might get is that the unpowered coil starts to deliver power to the switched-off amp.
I don't know if that hurts the amp, but you could put a high amperage switch (like a battery switch) between one of speakercables that connect the subs with the amp that doesn't always have to work (a single simple switch so the circuit is broken and the subs cant power the switched-off amp is enough).
And off course, the power handling is lower if you only use 1 coil, but it's still more than half the normal power handling since the cooling of the sub is calculated for the full power handling (with both coils powered) and the unused coil also works as some sort of heatsink.

About the tweeters, I know what you mean about the love them or hate them thing. I love them at normal volume levels and hate them at higher volume levels. Those TN52's are off course much better than the TN47's, but I still think the limit is just too low for SQL installs.
The limit of Dynaudio's is higher than any Focal tweeter I've ever heard (including the Utopia Be and TLR) and they sound very nice for a reasonable price (for a caraudio compact), that's why I recommend those to anyone that wants a nice sounding system that is able to reach higher volume levels without getting unbearably harsh and I'm pretty sure, if you'll test them, you'll forget those TN52's very fast ;-)

greetz,
Isabelle
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks for that reply..

i actually contacted the importer custom car sound, and soke to a speaker repair shop about the option of running them as youve mentioned, they both said in theory it can be done, but wouldnt recomend it.. was also told that if only one coil was to be damaged it wouldnt be covered in any warranty claim, but, in saying that... you are correct in the fact it can be done.. just prefered to run both id say.. so, i think i might look for an amp that can just run about 8000rms at 2ohm, 14.4v, something like the dd lv amp even would do, and just swap from the amp thats running them now, to the bigger amp for comps..

so basically id just be putting the rcas into the bigger amp, and the speaker wiring into it aswell... i think thats the safest, easiest way to go.. thanks so much for your replies though, if any thing it has been educational in the fact ive chatted abt about the one coil option on sub wiring, and now have another option for the tweeters if we run into trouble with the hrashness when getting loud...

i'll be looking up the specs on that tweeter, mainly the size in diameter and mouting cup options as they would need to be placed into the exsisting custom A-pilllar pods with out much, if any modifications to it...

thanks again Isabelle..

cheers
BRAD......
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SO NOW IM STILL AFTER RECOMENDATIONS FOR AN AMP THATS ABOUT 10.000 RMS AT 2OHM, RATED AT A DECENT VOLTAGE.. LIKE 14.4 OR LESS WOULD BE GOOD... BUDGET IS ABOUT $2500 FOR THE AMP, AFTER SOME DISCUSSION,THE USE OF TWO AMPS IS OUT, AND ILL GO WITH ONE BIG ONE FOR COMPS, AND THE CURRENT ONE FOR 'SUB SAFE' DAILY BASS... THEY WONT FRY OFF 2800RMS..

then if necersary, the battery and alt can be beefed up.. at the moment it is charging ok , and i estimate the alt to be 100amp or above, so for a daily system with 3000rms its just keeping up... if anything its discharging, with that amount of current being drawn, but its working is what i mean..

but for comps the batteries can be charged so i dont need to worry about feeding the 10.000rms amp constantly, its only a few burps at a comp i need, not an alt to keep up with it....


thanks
BRAD...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
well, the actual subs came with a bright yellow sheet of paper,with a big WARNING!!, saying DO NOT USE THIS SUB WITH ONLY ONE COIL CONNECTED, but, as im still learning, i tend not too doubt the things i read or i'm told, but i take advice on forums to be half fact, half fiction and ALWAYS get a second oppinon on any advice i receive.. every thing i've ever read or been told tells me that it was a big no no, but as i said, im still learning and will listen to everything, then double check the info...

im really not into arguing on threads about this and that, i just decided to not go with that advice.. i didnt actually qoute what i was told over the phone by the speaker repair shop... but its along the lines of, WE WILL BE SEEING YOU SOON,LOL....

thanks
 

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Wow what a cool install
 
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