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Discussion Starter #1
Feedback on my planned audio dream would be greatly appreciated!

One thing to get out of the way is that I plan on putting the amplifiers underneath the rear seats by cutting away at them a tiny amount and using the plastic cover's provided underneath the seats by building notches using plastic for the amplifiers, DSP's, etc to be on display when I open that compartment of the vehicle. they'll be layed up on the back wall beside each other.

Okay so breaking down the channels as follows and what they'll be powering:

- 12 channels, six channels running active in the front, and six channels running active in the rear for two three ways in my double cab Tacoma.
Also I haven't picked out which two three way's I'll be going with. Yes... I do believe in rear-fill haha. Also I haven't picked out two six channels for my truck. They couldn't be too big of an amplifier physically though.

- 4 channels of mid-bass! I have a 1600/3200max watt hifonics amplifier to power these! Anyways, I was going to go with the sundown neo-pro's unless somebody know's of a more sq option here.

- 2 channels of mono bass. I plan on using three sundown SD3-D2's on the back wall, behind the seats. Powering this is a Hifonics BRZ1700.1D, which will work out perfectly as it will be around like 1.3ohm if I remember correctly, anyways can somebody tell me if it's safe to run an odd number like this and not just 1, 2, or 4 ohm. I don't think there is a more sq option regarding subwoofer's and the Hifonic's amplifier is very popular.


So basically I need sq suggestions for:
Mid-bass, which I plan on buying eight of. - current sq pick out neo-pro v3's running 180w rms each and using two of these per channel on a 4 channel I'd have 360w's headed to a 400w per channel at 2ohm amplifier. SO I guess I'll run them in pairs of series in each door. Should I do anything special when placing these in the doors other than mount them with a nice coating of spray paint over mdf?

Two three ways, what kind of problems will I find for not running the same pair of three way's? I plan on running all 12 channels active. SO I need suggestions on what to buy here, really hoping somebody can pull the threads where it get's debated what's the ultimately best sounding, reliable three way for say 1200 each or possibly more. Also If I'm running two 6.5" midbass speakers in each door, how will I stabalize and dry proof the door?

Two six channel amplfiiers - all they got to do is power midrange and the two tweeter's.

Am I mistaking the need for a three way if I plan on running dedicated midbass as well?

And lastly, and most importantly what's the best DSP's to use for this? I was hoping to use a helix... so I'd have the director. Though the only real question there is how would I go about using two helix's? Can I still use one director or do I need two of them?
 

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Zapco makes a 16 channel dsp if you can just use the amps lpf for subs. Also could just get a sub amp with build in dsp as well.
 

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Feedback on my planned audio dream would be greatly appreciated!..

Two six channel amplfiiers - all they got to do is power midrange and the two tweeter's.

Am I mistaking the need for a three way if I plan on running dedicated midbass as well?

And lastly, and most importantly what's the best DSP's to use for this? I was hoping to use a helix... so I'd have the director. Though the only real question there is how would I go about using two helix's? Can I still use one director or do I need two of them?
Which two tweeters are you referring to? Most commonly a 3 way consists of a Tweeter, Midrange Woofer, and a Midbass Woofer. So no extra dedicated mid-bass is needed unless your concerned about filling in specific nulls in the frequency response.

Depending on your goals dont forget that using passives on the rear fill can shave off some channels on the DSP requirement.

3 way Front Fully Active = 6 channels
3 Way Passive Rearfill = 2 channels
1 Mono Sub Signal = 1 Channel
^
This can be done with 10 channel DSP’s. The options quickly drop off as you seek for more channels.

The Director can only control 1 Helix DSP unit at a time. You would need 2 Directors or 1 Director for the first DSP and 1 URC remote for the second DSP.

IF you want to adhere to the 18 channels active.. I think your best bet is using the JL VXi platform which allows you to link DSP amps into a network controlled by one remote.
 

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I vote JL VXi as well.

I do like the comment about using passives for the rear to cut down on channels needed for DSP.

But u said u want EVERYTHING active, so yeah.

Here’s a suggestion u won’t get anywhere else...if u wanna cut down on the space from using multiple (traditional sized) DSP’s....check out the Arc Audio PSM. It’s a TINY DSP that takes up absolutely NO space (I believe it’s made for motorcycles or something)....but anyways it’s a 6 channel DSP. Fits in the palm of ur hand. U could use 3 of those and still not use the space of 1 regular DSP. However controlling everything from a remote would be ur issue. I use one in my Honda Accord, fits right behind the radio, and sound quality is top notch. Easy tuning software as well.

I’m staying tuned just to see what u come up with tho, sounds like an interesting build!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Still sold on 18 channels. Might double down on two three ways running into 2ohm series in the front and two in the rear to keep up with the 8 6.5” midbass speakers as well as three SD3-D2’s behind the rear seats.

Anyways I really do need opinions on different three ways! I think I’ve some what picked out the amps for the three ways. And yes I do understand that this will be running more of a dedicated midbass though I plan on cutting them off at different frequencies with the 3way midbass playing a little higher - or is this really not that great of an idea? I was hoping to start playing the three ways midbass at around 600hz and the midbass would be 80-600 or so hz and sub 20-80hz.
 

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This is a daunting task to pull off because you're adding unnecessary complexity IMO.

First, a 3-way can be simplified by including the midbass and since the Tacoma has provisions for larger midbass drivers (6x9" or 8"), that decreases the need for an extra driver, midbass, midrange, tweet should do well enough.

Secondly, rear-fill is not the devil of course, it can be very helpful if done right. However, there's no need for an extended response for it. A limited range driver should be more than enough. We're talking 200hz-3khz or so (rough estimate), a single matching mid could do just fine instead of adding a midbass and tweet.

I'm not against your idea to have a well thought out system in a Taco, but an extra 3-way in the rear plus additional midbass seems like overkill when you're going to or should be limiting what the rears add. The Taco is a fairly narrow cabin vehicle that doesn't need a bunch of drivers to reach this effect. However, I do run an 8", 3", & .75" in the front of my 05 Access Cab with a single 10" filling out the bottom and the sound is pretty dang good and engulfing.

Just my 2 cents though.. I could be wrong

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What are some opinions for the best 3 way's out there SQ wise? Really trying to find that perfect sound.
 

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That's where things get very subjective. The "best" is a very tricky term as the definition varies per user or amount spent, but if it were me, I'd look at maybe the Audiofrog GS 6x9 for ease of install. From there you could run the rest of the GS line including mid, tweet, and even rear mid. The highest of quality, I'm sure it can be beat as any other offering, but the value and ability to keep the same series throughout probably will be hard to beat.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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If* you plan on multiple DSPs, make sure you account for latency.

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This is a daunting task to pull off because you're adding unnecessary complexity IMO.
Gotta say I agree with this, ultimately it is your vehicle and your choice, but you're definitely adding a lot of complexity.

Secondly, rear-fill is not the devil of course, it can be very helpful if done right. However, there's no need for an extended response for it. A limited range driver should be more than enough. We're talking 200hz-3khz or so (rough estimate), a single matching mid could do just fine instead of adding a midbass and tweet.
Yup. Rear fill does not need a 3-way active, would be a complete waste of amp channels and I would bet a headache to get it dialed in correctly. Rear fill for me worked best at 500Hz to 3khz and all I needed was a pair of CDT-ES02 (again, this was my particular set up in my vehicle, yours will likely be different).

Now, if by rear fill though you mean you want to have music playing back there, that's a completely different story. I think there is often a little confusion between what rear fill actually is, for some people it is differential rear fill, something that if listened to with your front speakers disconnected, does not sound good. But, others think of rear fill as simply having rear speakers playing, which would sound fine with the front speakers disconnected.
 

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I was hoping to start playing the three ways midbass at around 600hz and the midbass would be 80-600 or so hz and sub 20-80hz.
I don't like the 600Hz crossover point. There's a lot of musical information in that frequency range, and u'll probably get a "wandering" effect as various instruments and male voices cross thru that range and move from the midrange to the midbass and vice-versa.

This is a daunting task to pull off because you're adding unnecessary complexity IMO.
Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading thru the thread. A 4-way setup in the front is overkill. A 4-way setup in the rear is just silly. More drivers isn't always better!
 

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Still sold on 18 channels. Might double down on two three ways running into 2ohm series in the front and two in the rear to keep up with the 8 6.5” midbass speakers as well as three SD3-D2’s behind the rear seats.

Anyways I really do need opinions on different three ways! I think I’ve some what picked out the amps for the three ways. And yes I do understand that this will be running more of a dedicated midbass though I plan on cutting them off at different frequencies with the 3way midbass playing a little higher - or is this really not that great of an idea? I was hoping to start playing the three ways midbass at around 600hz and the midbass would be 80-600 or so hz and sub 20-80hz.
Then maybe remove the "SQ" from the thread title. Your plan is actually to go in the opposite direction of what would commonly be agreed to as being a sound quality system.

Despite many people's belief, the fewer speakers you can use, the better. There is absolutely no benefit to running 3-way components (active or passive) and adding additional midbassed in all 4 doors. There isn't a benefit to running active 3-way in the rear, a basic coax is more than capable of running differential rear fill. With the amount of speakers you propose, you will not be able to tune it correctly, and it will almost certainly sound worse than if you kept it much, much simpler.

If your justification is to build a show car, or just to have a fun project, go for it, but your plan has some major problems if SQ is the ultimate goal.
 

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This is a daunting task to pull off because you're adding unnecessary complexity IMO.

First, a 3-way can be simplified by including the midbass and since the Tacoma has provisions for larger midbass drivers (6x9" or 8"), that decreases the need for an extra driver, midbass, midrange, tweet should do well enough.

Secondly, rear-fill is not the devil of course, it can be very helpful if done right. However, there's no need for an extended response for it. A limited range driver should be more than enough. We're talking 200hz-3khz or so (rough estimate), a single matching mid could do just fine instead of adding a midbass and tweet.

I'm not against your idea to have a well thought out system in a Taco, but an extra 3-way in the rear plus additional midbass seems like overkill when you're going to or should be limiting what the rears add. The Taco is a fairly narrow cabin vehicle that doesn't need a bunch of drivers to reach this effect. However, I do run an 8", 3", & .75" in the front of my 05 Access Cab with a single 10" filling out the bottom and the sound is pretty dang good and engulfing.

Just my 2 cents though.. I could be wrong

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
I have a 2nd gen DC Taco, 8” mid bass in doors, 3” mid door pod and tweet in the sails. The speakers are Dynaudio out of a Volvo with a Dayton 10” H.O. Behind the seat.
Years ago i filled up a taco extra cab with a few component sets, It was fun causing a ruckus and being obnoxious, but the sound quality in the DC is no comparison. So if you want SQ listen to these guys. If you want to be loud and raise hell, load that mofo up.
Check out those Hybrid LS8 in the classified, you can afford them if you go for sq
 

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I don't like the 600Hz crossover point. There's a lot of musical information in that frequency range, and u'll probably get a "wandering" effect as various instruments and male voices cross thru that range and move from the midrange to the midbass and vice-versa.

Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading thru the thread. A 4-way setup in the front is overkill. A 4-way setup in the rear is just silly. More drivers isn't always better!
IMPO, the 4 way in the front isn't overkill, but rather cool. On the other hand, I wouldn't even have rear seats in a truck, let alone mid / high speakers :) lol
 

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Punkrocker, I like it :) To me its looking a little more like an SQL setup though, which honestly, is exactly what I prefer. I also like that you will have lots of midbass. Somebody had mentioned that maybe you could have half the number, but bigger and stronger mid-bass drivers ? And I might agree with that. But I'm not sure if you could still make the resistance needed ? Now I need to go look up your subwoofers... The size is not in the name. Unless they are 3" :) lol

Oh and just one question, "What the heck do you have back seats in a truck for ? I ripped the back seats out of my brand new Supercab F150 2 weeks after I bought it 12 years ago, and never looked back. I never have a problem with seating. Mine is always the one on the front left :)
 

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IMPO, the 4 way in the front isn't overkill, but rather cool. On the other hand, I wouldn't even have rear seats in a truck, let alone mid / high speakers :) lol
The problem is, for every extra speaker you add to break up the bandwidth you have 2 more crossovers to get right, level matching, and phase. If you cannot time align them correctly, level match correctly and optimize the crossovers, then you're at a disadvantage. There isn't really a benefit of breaking up frequencies among 2 different speakers when 1 speaker is perfectly capable of playing the entire range without distortion, or beaming. It's an unnecessary step that adds cost to speakers, amplifiers, DSP, and wiring, and it doesn't lead to an improvement in frequency response. It's a lot of extra work, and money and will probably be a step backwards, not forward.

Not to mention, doing this in the rear as well as the front increases the issues 10x. The amount of work to get this to work in the rear is silly, especially when it will most certainly hurt the front stage in the process. Even with proper differential rear fill, active 3-way (or the proposed 4-way) is of no benefit over a pair of coax speakers.

It all sounds really impressive to tell people that you have 18 channels, 4-way active front and rear, yada yada, but it won't result in more impressive sound quality.

So again, if this is a show car, or just a fun project for the hell of it, cool. But, if SQ is a top concern this plan needs major simplifying.
 
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