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1949 Tube Radio Speaker

850 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  jts
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So I have a 1949 Chevy truck that I'm restoring a radio for. It's a Delco 986443 AM-only tube radio with a built in speaker. So far I have converted it from 6v to 12v and recapped it. Right now I'm working on converting it to FM/BT/AUX. The original speaker is obviously toast, so I'm looking for a replacement 4 ohm 6x9. Power doesn't really matter but the radio's output tube is a 12v6gt which I believe is 12W.

It seems to me that I should be looking for a high-sensitivity driver that plays as wide a frequency range as possible, as flat as possible, although I have no idea what frequency range an AM tube radio can play. It also has to fit in the enclosure, which is the hard part. The original speaker had a 3" bottom mount depth, with the magnet making up 1" of that. The magnet is a 1.5"x1.75" and sits inside a 4" square in the chassis. The speaker basket is also pretty small and already gets close to some of the electrical components:

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I've been looking at the JL C1-690x for its 94db sensitivity and because it allegedly plays 39-22,000 Hz. There's also the C1-690tx which is a 3-way coax instead of 2 and should theoretically have better mids, but I'm not sure if it'll fit. The yellow cone isn't great but I haven't seen a better driver that seems to have a small enough basket/magnet.

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Should I just find a barebones paper 6x9? Use an adapter and run a wideband? Switch to 6.5" driver? I'm open to ideas...

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Single (Class A) or Push Pull (Class AB) on the 12V6GT?

Edit: Sorry - based on the output of 12W then it's going to be the latter.

Most all speakers made today are designed to be used with Current Amplifiers where sensitivity is not as important as it was with Tubes which are Voltage Amplifiers. Not only do you want the highest sensitivity you can find but you want the highest impedance you can find as well. If you hook up a 2 ohm speaker to a tube amplifier it will burnt out the tubes in a matter of hours. The higher the impedance the less heat the tubes will generate but they don't lose output the same way that a current amplifier does so the difference in volume is made up by the efficiency.

As far as frequency response goes - when that radio was built, AM radio was Low Passed at 3kHz to prevent the intercarrier whistle at 5kHz from being audible. So nothing in that radio was designed to reproduce frequencies above 3kHz and even after you FM/BT/Aux you still won't get much in the way of high frequency reproduction. So a a tweeter is unnecessary and pretty much any 6x9 or 6.5" with an efficiency of >96dB should work but preferably in the 8-16 ohm range to prevent too much heat.

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Very cool project you have there! I'm afraid I can't be of any real help, I just thought it's damn cool... I would be reasonable though and not try to find a driver that will cover the widest range possible. I would think a coaxial, point source or wide band that covers mid to upper range would still be asking a lot but could be doable. Sorry I can't be of any real help but I'm sure someone will come along soon that can be though. Good luck with it!
Single (Class A) or Push Pull (Class AB) on the 12V6GT?

Edit: Sorry - based on the output of 12W then it's going to be the latter.

Most all speakers made today are designed to be used with Current Amplifiers where sensitivity is not as important as it was with Tubes which are Voltage Amplifiers. Not only do you want the highest sensitivity you can find but you want the highest impedance you can find as well. If you hook up a 2 ohm speaker to a tube amplifier it will burnt out the tubes in a matter of hours. The higher the impedance the less heat the tubes will generate but they don't lose output the same way that a current amplifier does so the difference in volume is made up by the efficiency.

As far as frequency response goes - when that radio was built, AM radio was Low Passed at 3kHz to prevent the intercarrier whistle at 5kHz from being audible. So nothing in that radio was designed to reproduce frequencies above 3kHz and even after you FM/BT/Aux you still won't get much in the way of high frequency reproduction. So a a tweeter is unnecessary and pretty much any 6x9 or 6.5" with an efficiency of >96dB should work but preferably in the 8-16 ohm range to prevent too much heat.

Thank you, that's a lot of great information. Yes, it's push pull. I'll have to see what high impedance drivers I can find. Pretty much all modern 6x9s are 4 ohms, and the higher impedance speakers meant for classic cars don't have any specs. I'm considering a NOS speaker but I'm concerned about the paper cone being too old. The original speaker was 4 ohms but what you describe about increased efficiency is intriguing. Would it make sense to just add a resistor across the speaker terminals? And it sounds like it wouldn't be necessary to add a filter of my own since it won't play low or high enough.
Very cool project you have there! I'm afraid I can't be of any real help, I just thought it's damn cool... I would be reasonable though and not try to find a driver that will cover the widest range possible. I would think a coaxial, point source or wide band that covers mid to upper range would still be asking a lot but could be doable. Sorry I can't be of any real help but I'm sure someone will come along soon that can be though. Good luck with it!
Thank you! I figured if I couldn't realistically have SQ I would take the original tube amp sound over a cheap reproduction solid state radio.
Thank you, that's a lot of great information. Yes, it's push pull. I'll have to see what high impedance drivers I can find. Pretty much all modern 6x9s are 4 ohms, and the higher impedance speakers meant for classic cars don't have any specs. I'm considering a NOS speaker but I'm concerned about the paper cone being too old. The original speaker was 4 ohms but what you describe about increased efficiency is intriguing. Would it make sense to just add a resistor across the speaker terminals? And it sounds like it wouldn't be necessary to add a filter of my own since it won't play low or high enough.
No - do not add a resistor - simply a heat sink that's wasting power.

Both DS18 and PRV make 8 ohm 6x9s but I'd be more inclined to use a 6-6.5" wideband PA style driver with an adapter. You're not going to get any kind of bass unless you build an enclosure behind the driver so don't worry about the bottom end and cone movement.
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No - do not add a resistor - simply a heat sink that's wasting power.

Both DS18 and PRV make 8 ohm 6x9s but I'd be more inclined to use a 6-6.5" wideband PA style driver with an adapter. You're not going to get any kind of bass unless you build an enclosure behind the driver so don't worry about the bottom end and cone movement.
Got it, thanks again for the suggestions. I'll probably try a few out and see what I like.
Check out Parts Express. They have literally hundreds of different sizes & impedances of speakers. They’re bound to have SOMETHING that’ll work. I’m wondering if using a pair of 4” or 5” full range speakers would work better than a single larger speaker?
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Interesting project...

Wish PE would make searching things better on their new site, but until then I have a script I wrote do it for me. Here's the results from the 3 different categories (Woofers, Mids, Pro Woofers/Mids) for greater than 94db, 8ohm or greater, 5" to 8" drivers:

Woofers

Midranges

Pro Woofers/Mids



They have one of the PS180-8 6.5" PointSource drivers in the restock list for $78 right now that might work.

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I've been checking out PE and yeah the search was getting on my nerves... I like that PS180 but I would definitely have to cut off at least the top and bottom of the flange and the basket might be too big, it really depends where the holes end up. A safer bet would be something like the Visaton BG13P or Tang Band W5-2143. I don't know these brands though and I might just take a chance with the bigger Dayton.

Using two speakers is a good idea and some of the "replica" radios use two smaller drivers, but without the enclosure. Unless they were very small, the magnets would be too far apart to fit through the hole and it would have to be at least less than 2" deep. The enclosure is very unforgiving.
Would you consider having the original speaker rebuilt?
Would you consider having the original speaker rebuilt?
Maybe. The original speaker has no markings other than the part number. I haven't been able to find any info on it so I assumed it would need a custom made cone and cost a lot to fix. Then it would still be 4 ohm and old technology. At the same time, I'd get more cone area and it might be better suited than a modern driver would be. I found an old manual that says the undistorted power output is 3W, or 4.5W max. The visible potion of the radio is smaller than a single DIN so the speaker sits behind the dash and plays through a couple grills. I'm mostly concerned about getting enough undistorted output.
A safer bet would be something like the Visaton BG13P or Tang Band W5-2143. I don't know these brands though and I might just take a chance with the bigger Dayton.
I've used both in home audio projects over the years, no real issues. Tang Band does have a tendency to be a bit "optimistic" (i.e. higher listed than reality) with their specs. They're decently made and relatively decent sounding if used properly/within their limits. You project is definitely well within their capabilities.

Two that I have used before: The FaitalPRO M5N8-80 is an amazing mid with the right specs (12ohm nom, 99dB), but pricey and probably way too big around the magnet. The PRV 6MB250 (8ohm nom, 94dB) is ok if kept tamed (nasty 4K spike), but based on the info in daloudin's post that might not be an issue for your use.
I've used both in home audio projects over the years, no real issues. Tang Band does have a tendency to be a bit "optimistic" (i.e. higher listed than reality) with their specs. They're decently made and relatively decent sounding if used properly/within their limits. You project is definitely well within their capabilities.

Two that I have used before: The FaitalPRO M5N8-80 is an amazing mid with the right specs (12ohm nom, 99dB), but pricey and probably way too big around the magnet. The PRV 6MB250 (8ohm nom, 94dB) is ok if kept tamed (nasty 4K spike), but based on the info in daloudin's post that might not be an issue for your use.
Actually, I think the FaitalPRO would fit and I like the specs. I might end up getting that and in the meantime I can find out what it would take to restore the original speaker.
Wish you luck. My dad refurbishes old '30s, '40s bakelite, wood and other home radios like that. And the stuff he refurbishes is unreal. I know he puts a lot of work just into re-capping and finding the right tubes. Last check he had something like 400 different tubes sitting at his house and a couple thousand caps. I'll see if I can find the pics he gave me one a couple years ago for a birthday. I know a couple he has are worth a couple K in price if he were to sell them.
Wish you luck. My dad refurbishes old '30s, '40s bakelite, wood and other home radios like that. And the stuff he refurbishes is unreal. I know he puts a lot of work just into re-capping and finding the right tubes. Last check he had something like 400 different tubes sitting at his house and a couple thousand caps. I'll see if I can find the pics he gave me one a couple years ago for a birthday. I know a couple he has are worth a couple K in price if he were to sell them.
That's cool! I know just enough to know I'm ignorant about the details. I'm sure it's difficult to work around not having parts available, especially because of how much it can affect the sound.

It's interesting to think about how the different recording and playback options available in different eras has affected the overall sound signature of music. It makes sense that the music I tend to see people listening to is also what sounds "good" on portable bluetooth speakers, stock car systems, etc. I doubt many farmers could afford a radio in their truck in the 50s.
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Sry for the large pictures but these are a few of what he has done over the past 10 years or so. The one I have is the Zenith AM/FM you see in the third picture. Every one is very clear and work great. He has some portable huge ones that have all the sidebands on them as well. Plus a HUGE home ham radio setup with equipment worth a ton of money he has built over the years.

All of these were destroyed when he got them. I mean in pieces, cracked, not working, no tubes or wiring. He rebuilt all of them to look and work perfectly.



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Sry for the large pictures but these are a few of what he has done over the past 10 years or so. The one I have is the Zenith AM/FM you see in the third picture. Every one is very clear and work great. He has some portable huge ones that have all the sidebands on them as well. Plus a HUGE home ham radio setup with equipment worth a ton of money he has built over the years.

All of these were destroyed when he got them. I mean in pieces, cracked, not working, no tubes or wiring. He rebuilt all of them to look and work perfectly.



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You aren't kidding, those look brand new. I love the styling, especially the dial on the Zenith.
Yeah he is very meticulous on his rebuilds. I've seen other people do rebuilds on those and none come close to the work he does. Wish I could find some more that he could rebuild and keep him busy,lol. Plus they are a money maker when certain ones are put up for sale. He will go crazy looking for NOS parts as well like pointers or the glass or any of that sort of stuff to put in if he has to.
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