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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all! I'm in need of some suggestions and advice for my 2002 corolla.

Lets start with what I have currently installed:
Wiring:
- 4 gauge power wire from stock battery charged by stock 70-something amp alternator running to my single amplifier
- 12 gauge wire from speakers to 5 channel amp
- 4 gauge ground from amp to chassis
- stock chassis and battery ground

Speakers:
- Kicker CSC65 6.5 rear: www amazon.com/gp/product/B01MATSH7Y
- Rockford Fosgate R165X3 Prime 6.5 front: www amazon.com/gp/product/B00BF6HWCM
- Pioneer TS-SWX2502 10 inch: www amazon.com/gp/product/B00JQTU3QC

Hardware:
- Pioneer head unit: www amazon.com/gp/product/B0091UX3QI
- Alpine PDR-V75 AMP: www amazon.com/gp/product/B00OYG0CD6

What I have laying around that I'd like installed:
- Alpine SPR-60C 6.5
component: www amazon.com/gp/product/B004VBIEZW
- audio pipe dual 2 ohm svc woofers: http: salestores.com/audiopipeapv.html#.XEVbs89Kh27
- big 3 upgrade
- 145 high output alternator

My ideal system includes these subs to replace the 10 inch: the component speakers in the front to replace the 6.5 coaxials: a pair of 3.5's for the front as well: a DSP that does time delay: equalizer (really needed!??!!) and capacitor (if needed). I can do research to find a dsp, equalizer, capacitor and 3.5's, but my biggest problems related to setup are:
1) How will the DSP work with my setup? Will I need 5 amps?? 1 for front tweeters, 1 for front 3.5, 1 for front woofers, 1 for rear full range, and 1 for subwoofer?. From what I've gathered - head unit -> dsp -> amplifiers -> speakers. Can amps even take multiple inputs from multiple dsp outputs?
2) However the dsp will work (in Q1), can my current purchased amp be worked into this ideal configuration?

And smaller Q's are:
1) Is the 145 alternator going to run these two/or or more amplifiers?
2) How is this amp for the subs wired to 1ohm? www amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDZNC68
3) Any suggestions on 3.5's?
4) Is equalizer really going to help in such a small cabin?

I am going for high quality sound with an option to get some deep bass (new sub + amp solution). I find myself adjusting my legs frequently in order to unmuffle the vocals from my coaxial speakers (3.5's & tweeter solution), and my left ear is always overpowered (dsp solution).

Thanks so much ahead of time!
 

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you will need an amplified channel for every speaker, unless you combine with passive x-overs. You can use mono/2 channel/4 channel/6 channel amps configurations to power all the speakers in your system...-9 channels total
145 A alt should be sufficient.
There is plenty of 3-4 inch mids on the market,.... it would be cool to tell us how much money are you willing to spend on midranges since you can buy them for pennies or pay them a couple of thousand...HAT is one of manufacturers that I would be interested among others like AF, Brax, Focal, AudiblePhysics,.......

EQ is a must in every system
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks!

I'll spend up to 300 on mids, 1000 on dsp.

Will the DSP will output rca to each amplifier? For example, with the Alpine PDR-V75 5 Channel Digital Amplifier, I can use 4 channels for say the rear mids, and front woofers. Will the one "sub" channel be useable for anything? Or will I have to..let it go?
 

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No need to spend $1000 on a DSP at this stage. The $150 Dayton DSP-408 will do more than you will know how to handle for now. The thing that will make the most difference in the SQ of your system is your ability to properly measure and make corrections with the DSP. Your going to need some sort of measurement software (REW is popular and free) and a calibrated mic (MiniDSP UMIK-1 or Dayton Audio UMM-6 can be bought new for ~$95). Learning how to properly measure and make corrections with the DSP takes time.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
The truth! I agree, I'll definitely get a mic and some software as you suggested.

But I'm worried because that's a 4x8 dsp, and I think I need a 6 x something (my head unit has front, rear and sub rca outputs). Hmm, maybe the subs don't need to go through the DSP? I'm a little confused because LBAudio said I would need 9 outputs (2 woofer, 2 tweeters, 2 mids, 2 full range, 1 sub), but I can only seem to find 8 output DSPs. Would I need 2 DSPs?!

Thanks!

Edit: I found the 9 channels...They sure did go up in price!

amazon.com/AudioControl-DM-810-Channel-Digital-Processor/dp/B01EDIWWAK
 

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The truth! I agree, I'll definitely get a mic and some software as you suggested.

But I'm worried because that's a 4x8 dsp, and I think I need a 6 x something (my head unit has front, rear and sub rca outputs). Hmm, maybe the subs don't need to go through the DSP? I'm a little confused because LBAudio said I would need 9 outputs (2 woofer, 2 tweeters, 2 mids, 2 full range, 1 sub), but I can only seem to find 8 output DSPs. Would I need 2 DSPs?!

Thanks!
Actually the DSP only needs a single L/R input (2ch) to operate.

If you want to have front imaging/staging then the rear speakers will need to be turned way down. In this case they can just be run in mono - so just a single channel out of the DSP needed for that instead of 2.

Even if you decided you needed stereo rears then two Dayton DSPs are still cheaper than other 9+ch DSPs out there. But I'm willing to bet if you would experience a properly setup system that images/stages properly - you will realize how unimportant rear speakers are.

Also, if your sub(s) are going to be in the trunk then you will need to consider isolating the rear of the rear deck speakers (building enclosures behind them). The pressures in the trunk caused by the subs may damage them from over excursion and likely add distortion.
 

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Edit: I found the 9 channels...They sure did go up in price!

amazon.com/AudioControl-DM-810-Channel-Digital-Processor/dp/B01EDIWWAK
Since your using an aftermarket headunit - there are features on this DSP that are not required like signal summing.

Also, It only provides 1/3rd octave, fixed Q, EQ center frequencies. Full parametric EQ adjustability (on the Dayton and others) allows for finer tuning with less bands.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Now that's some good advice!

If the DSP works with only 2 channels, does this mean that the head-unit sends all (including sub) ranges through each of the stereo channels by default? Then it just adds a sub output for amplifier convenience?

I'll figure out how to put together boxes for the rear speakers. And will make the Dayton DSP-408 purchase for sure

Edit: This dsp has a bluetooth addon. Do you have experience with this? This is so I can adjust on my phone instead of laptop, or just bluetooth to the laptop?

Edit:

What do you think of:
Equalizer: amazon.com/gp/product/B01EE3Y3X8
4 Channel amp: amazon.com/gp/product/B00BF6HYBG
MonoBlock: amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDZNC68
 

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If the DSP works with only 2 channels, does this mean that the head-unit sends all (including sub) ranges through each of the stereo channels by default? Then it just adds a sub output for amplifier convenience?
Yes, that is how it works. There is likely some xover ability on the headunit to limit frequencies to each pair of outputs... but those can just be left turned off in order to send full range signals.


Edit: This dsp has a bluetooth addon. Do you have experience with this? This is so I can adjust on my phone instead of laptop, or just bluetooth to the laptop?
Yes, the Dayton DSP can be adjusted with a phone when using the bluetooth dongle.


Edit:

What do you think of:
Equalizer: amazon.com/gp/product/B01EE3Y3X8
4 Channel amp: amazon.com/gp/product/B00BF6HYBG
MonoBlock: amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDZNC68
No need for the Equalizer if your going to get the DSP... The DSP handles that function with much better precision.

I don't have any experience with either of those amps so can't really comment on them.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Any suggestion on a 4 and monoblock amp? Or some reliable brand names? You don't have to go looking! Just if you came across or have something that can run my speakers. (I noticed you sell as well :) )

Monoblock amp running dual 12" 2 ohm each svc 750 rms each. (should I find something that can get 1500rms on 1 ohm? Or 1500 rms on 4 ohms?

4 channel running:
- 2 woofers: 110rms 4 ohm each
- 2 rull range: 45rms 4 ohm each

Also, I'd love suggestions on things to upgrade if you see something is out of place or could drastically/mildly improve quality/loudness!

Thanks again!
 

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To be honest; I don't think upgrading anything other than your front speakers is really necessary at this point.

If your goal is sound quality (not just getting loud as possible); This is how I would proceed:

Get a decent component set for the front... Audiofrog and Morel are two brands I have experience with that I would recommend. But there are many more and even inexpensive raw drivers that can be purchased seperately on partsexpress or madisound. Mount the tweeters in the sail panels for now.

Acoustically treat your front doors to maximize the performance of the midwoofer. There are a ton of threads on here and youtube videos on how to do that.

Use your current amp: Front channels power tweeters, Rear channels power mid-woofers, Sub output to your current sub. Sub frequencies are the easiest to reproduce in a vehicle because of cabin gain but proper enclosure, install, and eq will make a big difference. Power your rear speakers off the headunit for now.

Then I would get the DSP, calibrated MIC, and download REW.

Read, read, read and learn, learn, learn how to set up and make corrections with a DSP. One guide that many start with is here: https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf

With the above you can get sound that will likely be much better then what you have now and you will learn many things on your journey. You will develop an better understanding of audio that will help you determine the best path of upgrades in the future.

Hope this helps.
 

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To be honest; I don't think upgrading anything other than your front speakers is really necessary at this point.

If your goal is sound quality (not just getting loud as possible); This is how I would proceed:

Get a decent component set for the front... Audiofrog and Morel are two brands I have experience with that I would recommend. But there are many more and even inexpensive raw drivers that can be purchased seperately on partsexpress or madisound. Mount the tweeters in the sail panels for now.

Acoustically treat your front doors to maximize the performance of the midwoofer. There are a ton of threads on here and youtube videos on how to do that.

Use your current amp: Front channels power tweeters, Rear channels power mid-woofers, Sub output to your current sub. Sub frequencies are the easiest to reproduce in a vehicle because of cabin gain but proper enclosure, install, and eq will make a big difference. Power your rear speakers off the headunit for now.

Then I would get the DSP, calibrated MIC, and download REW.

Read, read, read and learn, learn, learn how to set up and make corrections with a DSP. One guide that many start with is here: https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf

With the above you can get sound that will likely be much better then what you have now and you will learn many things on your journey. You will develop an better understanding of audio that will help you determine the best path of upgrades in the future.

Hope this helps.
I would agree with everything said above.

I noticed that you said you have a set of Alpine Type R components sitting around. If I were in your shoes I would install the Type Rs (woofers in the doors & tweeters in either the sails or A-pillars) and run them active on the F&R channels of the Alpine using the Dayton DSPs crossovers. You should be able to use your current sub as well (unless you feel it's lacking something or just want to upgrade). Those Alpine components are very capable speakers and you would be VERY surprised what they can do when run active with some delay and EQ-ing.

I also say ditch the rears but that is 100% my OPINION and you can do as you wish. If you feel the need to have them, run them off the rear of the head unit.

I also could not agree more with the READ READ READ & LEARN LEARN LEARN stated above. Then as you get more comfortable with delay, EQ, etc. you can add those elements into your system.
 
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thank you all again for your help. Looking back, I learned a lot from all the advice.

I finally got around to installing it, and it sounds great. Im just starting to learn rew now go tune it.
I ended up with front component 3 way with 3 amps...overkill, but hey, I enjoyed the complexity of drawing the system out on paper this way.
The sub is on a mono, rear and tweeters on 5 channel alpine (sub channel unused), and mids and woofers on 4 channel ds18.

problem is...when I power up the mono, all the alpine speakers are whining (tweet and rear). If any rcas in the alpine are plugged in, they whine, even if the rcas go no where. If no rcas are plugged it, it doesnt seem to whine. Ive tried different grounds (though all to the frame), different powering batteries, no rca next to power wires...but still whining when mono amp is powered on...any ideas?

Edit: setup is:
Head unit rca -> dsp 408 ->
1) alpine 5 channel: 2 channel tweet, 2 channel rear
2) ds 18: 2 channel wood, 2 channel mid
3) orion mono: 1 channel sub
  • all amps have remote fed from hu -> dsp -> relay -> amps
  • second rear battery grounded in one seatbelt location
  • all amps, dsp, and relay grounded in other seatbelt location
  • battery isolator grounded in side of car and determined by ignition
  • headunit grounded in oem location
 

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Whine is almost always a ground problem. How did you do your grounds? Are both amps grounded to the same place? Did you remove the paint first? Are you 100% certain your ground location is good, most new cars use adhesive “welds” so you don’t necessarily have a low resistance path back to the battery just because you grounded to sheet metal.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Whine is almost always a ground problem. How did you do your grounds? Are both amps grounded to the same place? Did you remove the paint first? Are you 100% certain your ground location is good, most new cars use adhesive “welds” so you don’t necessarily have a low resistance path back to the battery just because you grounded to sheet metal.
It’s an older car, so its straight to the frame. I took off the paint right to metal with a wire-drill-brush. Then clear coated on top once all screwed in. In the edit, i put all the ground information. I have grounded amps to same place, and different places, still whines. I will hit it again with the brush to make sure it’s on metal.
 

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It’s an older car, so its straight to the frame. I took off the paint right to metal with a wire-drill-brush. Then clear coated on top once all screwed in. In the edit, i put all the ground information. I have grounded amps to same place, and different places, still whines. I will hit it again with the brush to make sure it’s on metal.
Do you have a multimeter, and some spare wire (the thicker the better)?
 

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Measure the resistance between the gound point and the negative battery terminal. Connect the wire to your negative terminal and run it back to near the groung point. Use the meter and touch one probe to the wire (negative battery) and the other to the spot that you’re using for a ground. It should be well under 1 ohm. If it’s more than that the ground point has too much resistance, and isn’t a good ground. A perfect ground would read 0 ohms, so the closer to that the better.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Measure the resistance between the gound point and the negative battery terminal. Connect the wire to your negative terminal and run it back to near the groung point. Use the meter and touch one probe to the wire (negative battery) and the other to the spot that you’re using for a ground. It should be well under 1 ohm. If it’s more than that the ground point has too much resistance, and isn’t a good ground. A perfect ground would read 0 ohms, so the closer to that the better.
It is 0.1 ohms between the second battery’s neg terminal and both grounds.
 
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