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there is another option - run rears passively from your HU or small amp, front system active from DSP/amp
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I'm at the point now where I could just buy a 2nd 4 channel amp & install it instead of the crossovers.
All my speakers have midrange and tweeter wires (2 wires) running back to where the amps are going.

So in theory all I would need is another amplifier.
It just sucks I would need another head unit to control them all.

I'm not opposed to passive, I just don't want to mount up the crossovers then build the sub box & box them in with the false floor, just to tear it down later and swap them out to go active.


In my head the most logical solution is to get the p99 head unit, but that's a $1200 hit lol.
It would though solve all the problems and increase the simplicity while having an active system front & rear.

Passive is the simplest,
I could justy set it up passive & enjoy it for a while.
I'm just really interested in an active system.

My last system was passive & great, but its always best to try and improve upon things each time you do them. An active system is that answer to keep climbing upwards.
 

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Why is a DSP not on the table? Saves you from having to change head units, and it's going to be easier to tune as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Why is a DSP not on the table? Saves you from having to change head units, and it's going to be easier to tune as well.
When I was doing my planning I thought the deh 80prs would be my dsp.

If I knew adding one was part of the equation I would probably choose the alpine h800.

But when you add up the cost of the h800 & 80prs. Your looking at $1,000+ when the c99 is 1100-1200.

I would've rather done that for an equivalent cost.

I do want a dsp to be part of my system.
I just thought I already had that :-(


If I could sell my brand new 80prs in the box for what I paid $300.
I would lose nothing & could just buy the p99


I hear a lot of good things about the Ms-8 & it's around only $400...
 

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When I was doing my planning I thought the deh 80prs would be my dsp.

If I knew adding one was part of the equation I would probably choose the alpine h800.

But when you add up the cost of the h800 & 80prs. Your looking at $1,000+ when the c99 is 1100-1200.

I would've rather done that for an equivalent cost.

I do want a dsp to be part of my system.
I just thought I already had that :-(


If I could sell my brand new 80prs in the box for what I paid $300.
I would lose nothing & could just buy the p99


I hear a lot of good things about the Ms-8 & it's around only $400...
I don't think you need to sell the 80PRS. Probably a big upgrade over the stock headunit anyways. There's a few cheap DSPs sitting around here used. I feel like I've seen a Helix DSP Pro MK1 around here for like $5-600. I think you are needing 10 channels if I am understanding your desires correctly. 4 channels for 2-way front, 4 channels for 2-way rear, and then sub. If you go 2-way front, passive rear, and sub, you could get away with the MS-8, Helix P-Six, etc.

The Alpine PXE-0850S looks pretty impressive. Though it has low wattage.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
So my stereo installation is complete.

I am looking for input on how to properly tune my stereo with a microphone & a tripod.

I have a microphone included fron my old alpine imprint kit for the cda9887.
Could I use that with my laptop to measure my frequency response?
Or would I need to invest in a new microphone?

Also i think people are using some app i think is called room eq wizard?

I have an old laptop I can utilize.


As of now the raw sound is great.

But I have yet to break out the string and tape measure for my time alignment.
That should be the easy part.

I must say that the idmax 12 v4 sounds amazing running on my k1000 infinity amp.
 

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Take a look at these two guides.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/163234-first-timers-guide-measuring-your-system.html?highlight=Guide+to+rew

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/styles/diymobile/misc/multipage.gif

Regarding your microphone, I’m not familiar with it but I doubt it. The easy question is how do you connect it to your computer and if your answer is you don’t then you’ll need to buy a USB microphone. Most people use a USB microphone either from Dayton (Parts Express -UMM-6) or MiniDSP. The Audiofrog UMI-1 is another car specific option though it is more expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Take a look at these two guides.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/163234-first-timers-guide-measuring-your-system.html?highlight=Guide+to+rew

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/styles/diymobile/misc/multipage.gif

Regarding your microphone, I’m not familiar with it but I doubt it. The easy question is how do you connect it to your computer and if your answer is you don’t then you’ll need to buy a USB microphone. Most people use a USB microphone either from Dayton (Parts Express -UMM-6) or MiniDSP. The Audiofrog UMI-1 is another car specific option though it is more expensive.

It plugs into the standard sized microphone Jack.
 

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It plugs into the standard sized microphone Jack.
I’m not sure if REW will work with the built-in sound card or not. I’m use to working with USB microphones as mentioned above or with microphone preamps such as the Focusrite 2i2, which would work with a microphone like the Dayton EMM-6.

So do a quick search to see if REW will work with the built-in sound card on your computer. However, one other thing to think about is quality. Do you think a free microphone that came with your Alpine will be good enough to give you accurate enough results? It may but it maybe off. But since you already have it, if you can use it I’d recommend giving it a shot to see how it does. Maybe you can make a change in your DSP or radio (bass +/- 10) to see how well the microphone recognizes such a change.

Well I just did a search and REW mentions a USB microphone, an SPL meter with analogue output, or an analog microphone with a preamp. Technically the built-in computer soundcard is a preamp so it could work. However, I’m concerned the quality of the microphone and the computer’s soundcard will result in inferior results. So if you have the money to get one of the USB microphones, I’d recommend that, besides quality but also because that is what most use and instructions will be focused more on that usage. But if you’d rather not make an investment or you may not use it much, you could give the mic and computer soundcard a shot. Here’s a link to the REW introduction, which mentions the equipment you’ll need. By the way, you don’t necessarily need an SPL meter but it would help you make sure your SPL measurements are accurate; without the SPL meter, your measurements will be fine but might be 5 or 10 dB off on the scale.

EDIT - Here’s the link I forgot earlier.
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/gettingstarted.html
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
I’m not sure if REW will work with the built-in sound card or not. I’m use to working with USB microphones as mentioned above or with microphone preamps such as the Focusrite 2i2, which would work with a microphone like the Dayton EMM-6.

So do a quick search to see if REW will work with the built-in sound card on your computer. However, one other thing to think about is quality. Do you think a free microphone that came with your Alpine will be good enough to give you accurate enough results? It may but it maybe off. But since you already have it, if you can use it I’d recommend giving it a shot to see how it does. Maybe you can make a change in your DSP or radio (bass +/- 10) to see how well the microphone recognizes such a change.

Well I just did a search and REW mentions a USB microphone, an SPL meter with analogue output, or an analog microphone with a preamp. Technically the built-in computer soundcard is a preamp so it could work. However, I’m concerned the quality of the microphone and the computer’s soundcard will result in inferior results. So if you have the money to get one of the USB microphones, I’d recommend that, besides quality but also because that is what most use and instructions will be focused more on that usage. But if you’d rather not make an investment or you may not use it much, you could give the mic and computer soundcard a shot. Here’s a link to the REW introduction, which mentions the equipment you’ll need. By the way, you don’t necessarily need an SPL meter but it would help you make sure your SPL measurements are accurate; without the SPL meter, your measurements will be fine but might be 5 or 10 dB off on the scale.

I'll have to poke around a bit on the information.
I cant say with %100 accuracy how good the mic is, but when I used the imprint kit with my cda 9887 it sure did an amazing job of dialing in the system.


I feel like it would be worthy a shot to try at least once to see if it worked.
Worst case scenario I just buy a microphone later

Either way I need to dial it in & I know I need to use a microphone to start taking measurements.

The amp gains are set.
So now it's a matter of getting measurements so I can properly equalize.

I'll break out some string & a tape measure to get the time alignment set probably tomorrow.

This system hits.

That idmax 12 is a powerhouse.
It fills my car with plenty of bass.

& the kappa prefects fill my car with clean sound.

The only thing that always bugged me was how bright the tweeters always are on the perfect series. I need to eq those down.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
This setup is clean.

These door speakers are pretty high fidelity.
They sound very nice.

I have the tweeter switch on all of the passive crossovers set to low to help tame those bright tweeters.
I have the high pass filter at 50hz on the front, 100hz in the rear.

In its raw form the speakers were very sharp & bright.
I didn't think these kappas could be tamed.

But now the mids and tweets are very well blended together.
Not harsh on the ears anymore.

These door speakers really came alive once I set the hpf to 50hz.
They blend well with the sub set to 63hz lpf.

I've never had a setup where I could blend the mids & sub so low.
Those bass lines stay so clean & accurate!

That idmax I'm really impressed with.
I love how accurate it is, yet it's got the authority to really back up those low heavy notes when it needs to.

I didn't think at first one 12 would be enough, but it turns out to be exactly enough.
Anymore and it would overwhelm the rest of the frequencies.

Having that false floor helps to reduce any mechanical noise created by the subwoofer from coloring the sound in the cabin.

The other thing I noticed was that having my subwoofer bolted into my trunk helped to increase the accuracy compared to being loose. I had never considered that before. I'm glad I dynamated the shit out of my car before bolting that beast of a sub down lol.
I have no rattles.

Mmm!
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Discussion Starter #32
I personally love having rear fill.

When implemented properly you dont notice any pull to the rear.

My soundstage is all up front & ever present.

If anything the rearfills just help to make the sound larger, more authority.

I also like the idea that with 4 speakers you could run them with more headroom as compared to only 2 speakers.

& like others have said, the rear passengers need sound too!

Even though I mostly drive alone.

I really enjoy how when people ride in the back.
They get to hear good clean music back there too.

I like that front & rear passengers both get L&R +sub

Being in the rear since I have my time alignment set to the driver seat.

I notice that I only hear the rear channels.

That's because the rear speakers are farthest away so sound is shot out first from the right, then the left.

It gives the illusion of their own L&R stereo back there.

Being up front I get the time alignment to where the sounds all arrive in harmony, surrounding me, washing over me.

But the rears are not really noticed.

The front retains dominance.

Even trying to listen for them I don't notice unless I recline my seat all the way getting me closer to the rears & pulling me out of my time alignment bubble.

The rear fills make it so that the mids piston surface area doubles.

While although they may only theoretically add 3db (via doubling of drivers).

They do add more accuracy. The mids start to be more punchy & defined.

Adding more mid drivers increases the volume of the lower mid woofer ranges, possibly allowing you to bring your subs lowpass filter down lower.

I've noticed that with a well dialed in system.
The rear fill adds to the experience rather than detracting from it.

Plus I personally like all 4 mids & tweets to be matching.
I notice they harmonize better.

Some run components up front, but coaxial in the rear.

This difference in components from front & rear will affect the overall sound.

I went with infinity kappa perfect 500's front & rear.

So the sound is magical whether in the front or the rear.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I was at a stoplight with a coworker behind me.

I decided to crank up the volume so that he could hear the stereo.

He hadn't heard it really.

I had some low frequency, bass heavy rap playing.

All the sudden I heard a loud crack & noticed that my front window had cracked all the way across lol!

It has 2 rock chips about afoot above the crack, but had no imperfections where it had occurred.

I knew I had some pressure, but had no idea it would break my window lol!!
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