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It's amazing the difference that a tweeter can make as for me it is covers the most sensitive part of our hearing. I seem to prefer tweeters with a lower fs and like to cross them over at 1800k - 2500k depending on where they are installed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I completely agree. With an fs of 900Hz, it's almost like having a wide bander :)
 

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Great upgrade on the ML280.3's, should hear much better bass when you swap out the C165 Woofers..

Maybe some GB60's????
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Great upgrade on the ML280.3's, should hear much better bass when you swap out the C165 Woofers..

Maybe some GB60's????
The 280.3's are night and day difference from the C26's. They sound phenomenal!

Maybe eventually I'll swap the C165's ... something like the GB60 or 1650.3's would be nice ... but for $1k and $820 respectively, it would have to be a really great deal for me to do so. I actually wasn't looking to replace my tweeters, but the deal for these 280.3's was really good, so I grabbed them.

I really need to dig back into the tune at this stage. I've been putting it off, but just need to set aside some time to do it right. I'm still a bit unsure on how to approach the center and differential rear fill from a level and EQ perspective. I get the process for the 2-way front stage and sub, I understand how to set up the center & rear fill processing in the Helix DSP, and I also understand getting the TA on them done (ie: delaying the rear fills an extra amount, etc ..) .... What I'm not too sure on is how to approach the channel level and EQ on the center and rears. Do I set the level and EQ with the DSP effects turned off (ie: set as regular full range channels), match them to the target curve, and then enable the center effect and rear differential? Or do I enable the effects 1st, and then run the RTA on them looking for something specific for level setting? etc ...

I'll probably start a thread in the audio forum to discuss this...
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I had some time last night to do a re-tune, which was badly needed since installing the two 8" subs and the new tweets. Especially the TA of the subs.

I created a new profile in the Helix, and started from scratch.

Here's the config:

Product Font Automotive lighting Audio equipment Parallel


I just used the "auto EQ" function of the Helix to do the tune. I grouped the right tweet, mid, and sub together for the RTA auto EQ ... then grouped the left tweet, mid and sub together and auto-EQ'ed those as a group.

Here is what the result looks like after doing that. So this is both left and right playing, but only the tweets, mids and subs. I left the center and rear fills muted during this stage.

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Parallel


I then EQ'ed the center without the Real Center effect turned on, and matched it to the curve from 400hz up. Then I enabled the real center effect on it.

I also EQ'ed the rears between 200Hz - 20kHz to match the curve, then added the 7kHz LP and inverse signal afterward to create the differential.

It sounds great as is, but I know there's more work to do. I believe I should change the sub LP to 60hz for a better blend. Having both the sub and the mids set at 80hz seems to be doing something in the crossover region, but I wanted to give it a try to see what it sounded like.

I also know I can clean up the dips above 2kHz. Not too sure about the 900Hz dip though?

I ran out of time yesterday at this point, so it'll have to wait until I can get back to it... but for now, this will work nicely :)
 

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I'm amazed at how well those 8"s perform compared to the sealed 12" and gets you that coveted trunk space back! Though I'm curious about what you mean when you say the 8"s are more musical?

What's the next upgrade on the list?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I'm amazed at how well those 8"s perform compared to the sealed 12" and gets you that coveted trunk space back! Though I'm curious about what you mean when you say the 8"s are more musical?

What's the next upgrade on the list?
Me too! The Vega 8's, installed in this config, really do perform very well.

By more musical, I mean the way the subs react to rock music; tight, punchy, bass passages .... The kick and bass guitar are more defined. I assume it's related to how the speaker reacts to transients maybe? I'm sure having the 8" subs in the cabin, while the 12" was in the trunk, also has an impact here too. The 8's just sound more lively than the 12 did, and since they also cover the spectrum down to 25hz or so just fine, I've been really happy exchanging them for the sealed 12.

There's another forum member, @KFXGUY , who has a GTO as well. He's the guy I got the mounting adapters from, and he tried several different 8" subs in the rear deck before settling on the Vegas. Not all 8s performed like this, and I am really thankful he went through the trial and error process which I got to capitalize on :)

For the next upgrade, I'd like it to be the head unit ... but supply chain issues and pricing right now are making that difficult. I may swap the 6.5" door speakers for the matching Hertz Mille Legends counterparts to my new tweeters if I can find them at a reasonable price ... but I'll just have to wait and see at this point.
 
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Me too! The Vega 8's, installed in this config, really do perform very well.

By more musical, I mean the way the subs react to rock music; tight, punchy, bass passages .... The kick and bass guitar are more defined. I assume it's related to how the speaker reacts to transients maybe? I'm sure having the 8" subs in the cabin, while the 12" was in the trunk, also has an impact here too. The 8's just sound more lively than the 12 did, and since they also cover the spectrum down to 25hz or so just fine, I've been really happy exchanging them for the sealed 12.

There's another forum member, @KFXGUY , who has a GTO as well. He's the guy I got the mounting adapters from, and he tried several different 8" subs in the rear deck before settling on the Vegas. Not all 8s performed like this, and I am really thankful he went through the trial and error process which I got to capitalize on :)

For the next upgrade, I'd like it to be the head unit ... but supply chain issues and pricing right now are making that difficult. I may swap the 6.5" door speakers for the matching Hertz Mille Legends counterparts to my new tweeters if I can find them at a reasonable price ... but I'll just have to wait and see at this point.
Ahhhhhh, I'm tracking with you. That's what I'm looking for, subs with more definition. My NVX was fine, decent clarity, but I want something tighter. Though that may be from having a soft top more so than from the sub itself.

What head unit are you interested in? I really dig my touch screen pioneer. I'm addicted to Android Auto, having Waze on my head unit and Google maps on my phone in a mount next to it really gives me a lot of traffic data while I'm driving. The head unit came with a solid mic that manages to be clear even when I'm driving on the interstate in my noise machine.

How warm is the sound from those tweeters? Mine are a little too harsh for my liking.
 

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Me too! The Vega 8's, installed in this config, really do perform very well.

By more musical, I mean the way the subs react to rock music; tight, punchy, bass passages .... The kick and bass guitar are more defined. I assume it's related to how the speaker reacts to transients maybe? I'm sure having the 8" subs in the cabin, while the 12" was in the trunk, also has an impact here too. The 8's just sound more lively than the 12 did, and since they also cover the spectrum down to 25hz or so just fine, I've been really happy exchanging them for the sealed 12.

There's another forum member, @KFXGUY , who has a GTO as well. He's the guy I got the mounting adapters from, and he tried several different 8" subs in the rear deck before settling on the Vegas. Not all 8s performed like this, and I am really thankful he went through the trial and error process which I got to capitalize on :)

For the next upgrade, I'd like it to be the head unit ... but supply chain issues and pricing right now are making that difficult. I may swap the 6.5" door speakers for the matching Hertz Mille Legends counterparts to my new tweeters if I can find them at a reasonable price ... but I'll just have to wait and see at this point.
What head unit are you looking for?
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
How warm is the sound from those tweeters? Mine are a little too harsh for my liking.
Hmm, not quite sure how to answer LOL ... they're not overly warm, or overly bright. They are very well balanced, as I suppose they should be for the quality. I have them crossed at 2500Hz now, and they perform flawlessly. Not audio artifacts at all, no matter how loud I play them.

What head unit are you looking for?
I'm not quite sure which one yet, but my wish list is:
  • Wireless CarPlay
  • Backup cam

  • Integrated NAV
  • Capacitive touch
  • HD Radio built in
  • Sirius would be nice, but I use the mobile app today and it works fine for me
Ideally, it would be a standard double DIN and integrate seamlessly into the GTO dash. Although I have considered a floating screen, so long as it doesn't look too out of place.

Motor vehicle Steering part Vehicle Automotive design Car


Home appliance Clothes dryer Washing machine Automotive tire Motor vehicle


Kitchen appliance Home appliance Audio equipment Vehicle Musical instrument accessory


As a mock up, I measured it all out, and this is what a floating pioneer would look like

Light Plant Vehicle Motor vehicle Car



It would just barely cover the silver side pieces, but wouldn't extend past them.
 

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Hmm, not quite sure how to answer LOL ... they're not overly warm, or overly bright. They are very well balanced, as I suppose they should be for the quality. I have them crossed at 2500Hz now, and they perform flawlessly. Not audio artifacts at all, no matter how loud I play them.



I'm not quite sure which one yet, but my wish list is:
  • Wireless CarPlay
  • Backup cam

  • Integrated NAV
  • Capacitive touch
  • HD Radio built in
  • Sirius would be nice, but I use the mobile app today and it works fine for me
Ideally, it would be a standard double DIN and integrate seamlessly into the GTO dash. Although I have considered a floating screen, so long as it doesn't look too out of place.

View attachment 326799

View attachment 326800

View attachment 326801

As a mock up, I measured it all out, and this is what a floating pioneer would look like

View attachment 326802


It would just barely cover the silver side pieces, but wouldn't extend past them.
Yea I’m not a fan of the way that looks.
I ask because I have two extra pioneer head units. If you have car play, you dont need navigation. I prefer the one that displays from the phone anyways. The one I have IN my car ticks all those boxes. But the two spares I have don’t.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Yea I’m not a fan of the way that looks.
I ask because I have two extra pioneer head units. If you have car play, you dont need navigation. I prefer the one that displays from the phone anyways. The one I have IN my car ticks all those boxes. But the two spares I have don’t.
Ya, I kind of want to like it, but being honest, I think I'd hate it after it was installed. It's tough to tell from mock ups though, and the cost would make it an expensive mistake.

Do either of your spares do CarPlay? Wireless? I have that ProClip dock there, which I use today, but want the new Head Unit to be such where I don't need the dock anymore. It would be nice to not even have to take the phone out of my pocket.

The good thing is I don't need any advanced audio features, since I have the Helix setup now :)
 

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I have to track down the link, but there's a company developing an adaptor that turns a wired carplay/Android auto into a wireless one for under $80, which will really open up a lot of options. Motorola, I think. I've barely seen the wireless head units for under $1k.

I love my wired one, but the charging is slow (takes nearly two hours of driving to fully charge a near dead phone) and if you're out running errands the constant plugging/unplugging is not only a pain but it also wears out that charging port. A wireless android auto with a wireless charging cradle would be stellar.
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I have to track down the link, but there's a company developing an adaptor that turns a wired carplay/Android auto into a wireless one for under $80, which will really open up a lot of options. Motorola, I think. I've barely seen the wireless head units for under $1k.
Very cool! I had no idea these existed, thanks for sharing. Looks like there's a bunch of options out there.

 

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Very cool! I had no idea these existed, thanks for sharing. Looks like there's a bunch of options out there.

Oh that's even better! No wait for it, I might have to look into one of those You're welcome 😁 Of course, can't vouch for how well they work, but I read some early tests of the Motorola being pretty decent.

That can disengage you from the super premium $1k head units and get you back into the $500 range. Makes me glad I venture into that price range.
 

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@Stoopalini - VERY nice setup within your GTO. I am getting ready to begin a similar journey and am looking for improved audio across all frequencies, but not crazy low end. I saw that you used the 3D printed adapters in the rear deck and was curious if you purchased those from the fellow DIYMobile member? If so, could you send me this person's details? I would love to purchase a set as well!
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
@Stoopalini - VERY nice setup within your GTO. I am getting ready to begin a similar journey and am looking for improved audio across all frequencies, but not crazy low end. I saw that you used the 3D printed adapters in the rear deck and was curious if you purchased those from the fellow DIYMobile member? If so, could you send me this person's details? I would love to purchase a set as well!
Thanks, it's been a great setup! I actually traded @KFXGUY some measurement equipment for the 8" rear deck adapters he 3D printed for me.

Welcome to the forum!
 
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