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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Time to start my build log. My system will consist of a VW RNS510 (satnav unit) connected to a Bit Ten D using the speaker level inputs (just the fronts going to this). All four channels of a Hertz HDP4 will be used to biamp a set of HSK165XLs in the front. The rears are being left stock for now and still connected to the rear channels of the OEM head unit. I plan to fade it all front and see how I get on with that.

I have an old RF Punch 40.2 which will drive a sub of some sort to begin with. May change out that amp. later but I have it kicking around
so will give it a try to get started. Still working up ideas for a sub and enclosure and asking for ideas in General Car Audio.

Objectives
- Balanced, natural sound on a wide range of music with better than average imaging.
- Maintaining prcaticality for every day use including boot/trunk space, spare wheel etc.
- OEM integration (steering wheel, dash display, display of climate on head unit)
- Nothing visible from outside of car
- Not too much additional weight (i.e. will deadean but won't be smothering and will try without mass loading vinyl initially) - will add extra as needed.

Here's the plan...


Kit


Progress so far...
RNS510 installed (with mic and bluetooth unit)


Installed power cable from battery to boot/trunk area
16 AWG speaker cable installed (6 runs including the 2 high level inputs for the Bit Ten D)

Preparing door for speaker install...turned into a much bigger job than expected requiring removal of window and regulator to reach door outer skin and harness. The OEM speaker and the regulator panel were riveted in place necessitating drillin out and sourcing of replacement rivets and a pop riveter gun.


Door harness connector (Molex style) after drilling


Cables installed thrugh connector


Finished door wiring bellows


Wires exiting harness in door


More soon...
 

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Alright, another VW thread. I will be watching this one.
 

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Sith Lord
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I own a '10 JSW and I would like to keep the factory HU, but I worry about it "de-equing" when the volume is turned up. Let me know if you run into this problem.

Thank
D


Sent from my iPhone.... Beware of AutoCorrect.
 

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I own a '10 JSW and I would like to keep the factory HU, but I worry about it "de-equing" when the volume is turned up. Let me know if you run into this problem.
i'm doing the same, RCD-315. everything i've read states that all the VW radios de-eq the bass as volume increases. either it's time for an audiocontrol lc2i/6i or full-out dsp with correction like the 3.sixty, 6to8, bitone, or ms-8.

i haven't finished amassing my gear but i should know for sure by the end of summer.
 

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The RNS850 in the Touareg I'm doing is supposed to de-eq the bass, but when I ran the signal directly into the RTA software I'm using, it didn't drastically change when I turned up the volume. As a matter of fact, it stayed about the same. As far as I have seen in the 6to8 software there is no correction for this. The LC2i has a feature to help overcome this, but it's a little weird to set up.

Jay
 

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Sith Lord
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The LC2i has a feature to help overcome this, but it's a little weird to set up.

Jay
I don't mind weird, but does it work well enough to retain the factory HU? Also, if I'm going to run a 6to8 or H800, does it even matter?

D

*Sorry to hijack the thread*
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Will report back on how I get on with this. I have the option to use the DRC as volume control against a particular volume on the RNS (i.e. the volume I use to set-up the Bit Ten including it's de-equing). This means not being able to use steering wheel volume controls however.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Since the thread has a few VW owner followers, some further VW/Golf-specific detail on work so far... - All at your own risk - ya da ya da.

Head unit install was relatively easy to research online so I won't go into this. I have installed the Bluetooth unit in the dash (loads of space below head unit) and run microphone to stock location in roof. All can be researched easily online. For the microphone I added a little tape to prevent rattles as it is a bit loose. The Bluetooth unit was wrapped in some foam to avoid rattles. It wedges neatly and tightly in the location suggested and I added a couple of cable ties to secure.

Power from battery required removal of airbox and battery to do properly.

Power cable in engine bay (airbox and battery removed - you can see the engine bay side of the grommet in the pic. below.



On my UK car, the wiring grommet is accessible from inside the car without removing the glovebox (just about).



Just remove the felt panel underneath the glovebox. A wire fish can be used to guide the cable through once a hole is made in the grommet (there are spare nipples on it). I did actually remove the glovebox in the end and would recommend this for this install. In fact, I'd recommend preparing by removing:-

- Head unit
- Aircon controls
- Gearstick surround
- Ashtray
- Forward section of centre console (or at least undo it and move it back out of the way to ease glovebox removal/replacement).
- Glovebox (I've done a vid which may help some - golf glovebox remove.wmv - YouTube)
- Kick panels
- Sill trim
- Rear quarter internal panel (mine is a 3 door)
- Rear seat base and at least one side (once one side is done the other is easy)
- Boot/trunk side trim (depends on how you're laying out boot)

- In my case I also removed the rear cupholders, vents, media interface from armrest and removed some screws to let me lift up the centre console/armrest a bit - this was to run the Bit Ten's DRC cable, but not needed if you plan something different.

I believe How tos for most of this are easily available, but will help with links and stuff if asked as I've assembled loads of bookmarks.

The door work turned out to be a much bigger exercise than I anticipated from my research.

The panel removal is relatively easy and can be researched on forums. Once the panel is off however you won't have any access to the outer skin of the door for deadening nor access to the door end of the wiring bellows which sits between the door and the car.

For this reason I had to bite the bullet and remove the window and window regulator with its carrier. I could not find anything online about how to do this on a Mk6. Here's my how to...

Take a pic of the wiring in place or use mine...



Remove the two circular blanking plugs (circled below)


Position the window up/down until you can see the glass clamp screws through these holes. The screws are fitted with the heads facing the outside of the car so it's not possible to loosen them in the normal way. I don't know what the correct procedure is, but in my case I noticed that the end of the screw that you can see looks like a Torx bit (i.e. not a screw head). So I think a Torx socket could be used to loosen this. I didn't have one, but managed to improvise with a 4mm hex socket. The screw loosens clockwise. With these clamps loosened, you can pull the glass up and out of the door. Pull it up and then tilt up from the end of the window nearest the back of the car and lift out. Grippy gloves help to make this easier and safer, but consider having a helper - the glass would be easy to drop. Store safely. Note that the clamp bolts seemed to have thread lock on so may need to be replaced or at least cleaned and threalock reapplied - I'm looking into the correct procedure at the moment.

Disconnect battery. Disconnect and unclip all the wires on the door.

With all the connectors disconnected from the door, you can unclip the rubber grommet where the harness comes to the dry part of te door from the inside (wet side) or the door. It's then possible to push the grommet inside the door. Do the same for the rubber surround on the door lever pull cable.

You may wish to remove the stock speakers at this point by drilling out their rivets, but it can be done later if needed.

There are two Torx T30 bolts holding the window regulator to the door. These are behind a couple of bits of circular tape. They are the two uncovered holes at the top of the door in the pic below.


Remove these bolts. A magnetic bit helps to avoid dropping them inside the door - not a problem when removing the window regular, but a pain if it happens during refitting (on refitting - fit these first in case they drop).

The regulator is then held in place by a bunch of cream coloured nylon push clips/rivets. You can see one in the corner of the regulator panel below


Use pliers to pull the centre pin until the rivet comes out.

I think VW may have changed the approach at some point on these. On some pictures I've seen the panel is held in place with these nylon push clips all round. My panel however had three of them replaced by metal pop rivets which I needed to drill out. I've hopefully sourced replacements from my local VW dealer which I'll collect tomorrow. They are not specialist items, but you need to get the size right. Get the VW ones if you can, otherwise get something like a 6mm (thick) x 6-8mm grip rivet with a 16-18mm flange head. Sizes are just my estimates.

Drilling these out needs a drill of 6-10mm. Drill the head until the remaining head comes away and probably attaches itself to your drill bit. The remaining rivet can be punched out into the door. You may want to look this up as I'm no expert and there may be better instructions.

The regulator and it's carrier panel can now be removed by pulling out at the bottom and the sliding down and out of the door. You may need to break the seal first. Don't use anything too sharp but slide something between the carrier panel and the door to lever the panel away from the door. Take care not to damage the seal.

As you remove the panel, feed the harness through the hole and do the same with the handle release cable.

The harness is then just held in place by the end of the bellow and by two clips. Once you've done all this you have all the room in the world to work on the outer door skin and the harness.

For the end of the harness on the car body, use a trim tool to ease out the cover. It has a tab which slots in at the bottom, so start at the top where there is a clip on each side (can't be seen, but try squeezing top of the cover or inserting a thin trim tool to press in one clip at a time whilst easing the top away). Then unhook from the bottom.


You'll then have access to the Molex-style connector which can be seen in the pic below once the harness is clear


You lift up the orange lever to disconnect (for reconnecting, make sure the lever is swung to the fully open position and that plug and socket are carefully aligned before trying to push plug in).

The side of the Molex in the car body can be removed quite easily by squeezing it from outside the car and then pulling it into the footwell area. There is then enough space to drill for wires. Refitting it is fiddly as there is not really enough room to quite get yur hand on it whilst refitting. I end up using a trim tool to push it the last bit into place.

Once the wires are fed through the drilled Molex you need to get them through the bellows. This needs a wire fish to be fed through from the door end. Take care if using an ordinary piece of wire that it is not sharp enough to damage the wiring or the bellows.

I found that the bellows end which sits inside the door was too narrow to allow all my wires through, so I decided to make an extra hole adjacent and put the wire fish through there and pulled the wires out this way. I then taped alongside the existing wiring with PVC insulating tape (as used on the OEM loom) and then waterproof tape. Parts of the loom were also wrapped in Tesa cloth tape where the original loom had this.

Consider at this point whether you would like your woofer wiring (if going active) to go straight to the back of the woofer rather than through the grommet with the other wires and then back into the door. I didn't think of this in time.

Tools
Torx bits (T20 and T30 so far) including extension or T-bar type tool for buried screws
Torx socket ? size?
Hand-riveter (maybe - see above)
Trim tools - I've struggled without for years - dumb - they are cheap and radically improve the ease and quality of the job that gets done.
VCDS/Vag-com - needed for coding new HU and Bluetooth. If you don't need to do this and you always remember to disconnect the battery and never forget to reconnect anything before you connect the battery up again, you should get away withut VCDS. If you make a mistake on these things you'll be left with errors which need to be cleared with a VCDS (but you could wait until all's finished and then get a garage to do it).
Telescopic magnetic pick-up tool - non-essential but very very useful.

Supplies
Will depend on your install. Here's what I stocked up on.

Braided shielding
Cable ties
P clips (not used yet)
Heatshrink
Tesa cloth tape (the type used by VW and BMW) - much nicer than PVC insulating tape for wrapping wires.
Cables
A couple of distribution blocks
Fuseholder and fuses
Ring terminals for power and earth
Deadening
Self adhesive closed cell foam
MDF
Spare rivets (I got these from VW dealer)

Still need to buy more stuff for boot build, but will cover that once I get there.

More soon...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Speaker adapters

I bought some model specific speaker adapters. Mine are ones supplied in the UK (Connects2 CT25VW10). These are OK, but don't seem to maximise the available depth (caveat - I've not refitted my door panel yet!)

Anyway - my speakers would not fit with just these so I made a 6mm MDF spacer and mounted this between the door and the plastic adaptor. This gives 76mm of mounting depth.

Will let you know how I get on once I've tried to refit the door panel.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #13
allthought i am abaout finished (havent updated my build log though) i will be checking this out
Ah - yes I remember your build log - one of the ones I researched. Stirling effort doing it under a tent! Thanks. :)
 

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The RNS850 in the Touareg I'm doing is supposed to de-eq the bass, but when I ran the signal directly into the RTA software I'm using, it didn't drastically change when I turned up the volume. As a matter of fact, it stayed about the same. As far as I have seen in the 6to8 software there is no correction for this. The LC2i has a feature to help overcome this, but it's a little weird to set up.

Jay
i'll try to RTA my stock RCD310 at various levels on saturday, see if it's any different. it's a basic radio, no outboard amps.
 

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Will report back on how I get on with this. I have the option to use the DRC as volume control against a particular volume on the RNS (i.e. the volume I use to set-up the Bit Ten including it's de-equing). This means not being able to use steering wheel volume controls however.
That would be a great thing to add to the Audison piece the next go round, I think. If you could find the wires behind the radio (like with Metra's ASWC) and cut them so the radio doesn't see the signal too.

Jay
 

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Supposedly, there's some pins for line-level out w/ this RCD-310 and many others ( Volkswagen RCD 310 pin assignments | my-gti.com connector 3, pins 2, 3, 8). They can be enabled with VAGCOM but they only work if the radio detects the factory amplifier. :(

There's also something about attenuating speaker level outputs by some DB level through VAGCOM and it might negate needing the LOC.

I don't know which body controller (CBC?) these features require. Suppose I should get a VAGCOM and test.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Progress and a challenge to overcome

Today I continued work on the same door. I was hopeful that I now had everything nailed and just need to quickly finish up and do the other door which would then be much easier. 6-7 hours later it's not quite worked out that way. First the progress.

Fitted the tweeter - 28mm Hertz tweeter was easy to fit in the stock location. I ground out the dabs of melted plastic/glue that holds in the stock tweeter and then just placed the Hertz one in the same place and used three dabs of hot glue.

It's marginally thicker than the stock one, but the panel goes on fine. Decided to use bullet connectors rather than solder for connection to the 16 AWG for any future maintenance in the door.

No pics - will get one of the driver's side or pop the passenger one out again.

Added some deadening to the inside of the door panel. Strategically placed following the rap test to see which bits might cause a problem.

Removed the foam strip fitted by VW around the edge of the speaker grille inside the door panel and Dremeled away the raised lip to gain as much clearance as possible.





Mounted the woofer and sealed around its edge with Butyl sealant.





Disassembled my hand riveter which had a rivet pin stuck in it. Collected my VW rivets for the door and promptly found that my hand riveter will not take them because their pins are too thick. Earlier turned down the opportunity to buy some more of the nylon push clips "just in case". Will have to remove panel at a later date to fit rivets.

Added 3mm Neoprene foam layer. First time I've used this. I cut roughly to shape with the upside down on the back of the removed door panel. The used masking tape to hold in place to make other cuts to allow for the door lock cable and the power windows wiring to come through as well as a few trims around the edges.

Tip 1 - take your time do all your cutting before removing the backing layer. Scissors worked well to cut this stuff until the backing layer was off at which point they just jam up of course.

Tip 2 - once stuck, this stuff can't really be removed without destroying it, so take trouble to get everything right before sticking.



Tested that everything was connected and working by hooking up a home amp and the Hertz crossover temporarily.

Challenge

Refitted door panel and discovered that the woofer is hitting the door panel grille on full excursion. Used chalk on the inside of the door panel to identify where.





Realised that the VW design of the grille gives a few mm less clearance at the bottom...



Now, the speaker as fitted has perhaps 1mm clearance behind the magnet so dropping it back is not really much of an option.

I based the fitment on a thread where someone had fitted the Hertz Milles. These has almost identical dimensions so I thought I'd be OK.

I think the issue is actually the max excursion (xmax) of this woofer. The Milles and all the other Hertz speakers in the range have xmax of 3-4mm. The HV165XLs which come in the HSK165XL kit have 8mm xmax :(

Now trying to work out my options. I really wanted the door panels to remain stock for this, but may have to do some work now (either that or change to another speaker - which will cost me as I won't be able to exchange these now).

I'm thinking about trying to change just the problem area by making a custom grille piece. I did this a while back on a larger scale but need to think about how I can make this work here.
 

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this is the danger of going by someone's thread on fitment. i have seen scenarios where people said they fit, and i discover later the surround has been flattened by the door panel all along...

having done one of these, i know its very tight. i had to trim the door panel's grill on the inside big time to fit an arc black series.

b
 

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jtaudioacc
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Did you grind behind the speaker? It weakens the window track mount a bit, but will add some clearance.

I've been able to shoehorn some HAT L6V2's into one before. The Hertz are a couple mm bigger, but I thought I had at least that much room in front of the grill. But HAT also used an inverted surround for this exact installation reason. :)

Basically what I did was grind that back, held the speaker up, and made my baffle exactly the size needed.
 
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