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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, as my thread title says I am looking for advice to upgrade the sound system in my Regal. It has the base 7 speaker system that is all stock, a 3 1/2" center channel in the dash, 6 1/2" componet set in the front door and 6 1/2" mids in the rear door all of which are paper cone 20w 4ohm. It does have the cutouts in the rear package shelf for 2 - 6x9"'s and what looks like a 5 1/4" in the center of the shelf. I visited a local shop and they want to install an Audison AP F8.9 bit DSP/Amp and Morel Maximo Ultra speakers. The price they quoted was more than I walked in expecting to hear but a large chunk of that was the $1200 for the Audison. Comments/sugestions?
 

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What was the total quote for what the shop suggested and what equipment was included?

Did it include adding a subwoofer and the amplification it requires?

Where are you located?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
3.1K with the Audison F 8.9(8x85w) and 2.6K with the lower powered 8.9(8x35w) 1 set of
Morel Maximo Ultra 602
componets to replace the existing front door set and a set of
Morel Maximo Ultra 692 Coax
in the rear deck to replace the factory 6 1/2"s in the rear doors. Soundproofing/Deadening the doors and rear deck, the new wiring, Tuning the system. No sub but one could be added simply enough due to the sub output on the DSP. I am just south of Baltimore Maryland.
 

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Before I reply in specifics to what the shop recommended, I would strongly consider reaching out to Nick Apicella (Skizer on DIYMA) from Apicella Auto Sound. He is located in Stony Point, NY, but I would say it would be worth the drive to have him build your system and tune your car.

3.1K with the Audison F 8.9(8x85w) and 2.6K with the lower powered 8.9(8x35w) 1 set of
Morel Maximo Ultra 602
componets to replace the existing front door set and a set of
Morel Maximo Ultra 692 Coax
in the rear deck to replace the factory 6 1/2"s in the rear doors. Soundproofing/Deadening the doors and rear deck, the new wiring, Tuning the system. No sub but one could be added simply enough due to the sub output on the DSP. I am just south of Baltimore Maryland.
If you aren't willing to drive up to see Nick, and want to work with this dealer I won't try to dissuade you. Have you listened to a completed vehicle that they installed and tuned? If so, were you happy with what you heard?

Audison isn't my preferred brand for DSP, but if that is what the shop uses, knows and prefers I would trust them to select the brand as the right tool for the job. Where I deviate from their recommendations is the suggestion of a higher cost coaxial in the rear and no subwoofer installation. The 6x9s will have additional midbass output, but they are no substitute for a subwoofer.

If I were configuring a system from that dealers preferred brands, it would probably look something more like this...

Full Range Amp/DSP: Audison AP F8.9bit (85W x 2 > Tweeters | 260W x 2 > Midbass | 85W x 2 > rear fill)
Mono Amp: Audison AP1D (540W > Subwoofer)
Front Speakers: Morel Virtus 602 or Tempo Ultra 602
Rear: Morel Maximo Coax 6/6x9 or Stock
Subwoofer: Morel Ultimo SC 122 or Primo 124

Alternately, if you have some room to spare, you could use the Audison bit Nove DSP in combination with Morel MPS amplifiers for processing and power.

If all that is adding up too quickly, I would consider a lower end component set up front (Maximus 602, Maximo Ultra 602) and stock rear speakers in order to get the subwoofer in place. You can even run the entire system off of just the Audison AP F8.9bit to start. Channels 1-4 for front mids and tweeters, channels 5-6 for rear fill and channels 7-8 bridged for the subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info, I have no idea about todays equipment and had never heard of Audison before this past weekend and I am not sure about the Morels with their treated paper cones. They were thinking about a sub but I was not sure and I was also the one who sugested ditching the 6 1/2's in the rear door and putting the 6x9's in the rear shelf. The shop also said I could just replace the factory speakers with something like the JL C1 series and sound deaden the doors and get better sound without spending much money but I think I would like something more than just that. Throwing away the build I got from the one shop I have spoke with what would you recommend equipment wise? Keep in mind the $3,000 is more than I was thinking I would need to spend when I walked into the shop but I do want to do it right but this is a daily driver, not a show car, I would plan on keeping the factory head unit, and could do the build in stages to get to a final set-up, not looking to rattle the pavement but just have a very nice sounding system.
 

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...The shop also said I could just replace the factory speakers with something like the JL C1 series and sound deaden the doors and get better sound without spending much money but I think I would like something more than just that. ...
In their defence, that is not bad advice.
Anytime the noise is deadened and dampened, the need for power to overcome it goes down. People can spend it in money or their time to do the sound deadening part, and it is never a waste.
I you are a DIY type then the that part is worth considering, and could take you a while.

Other than that, if you had particular goals and outcomes, then it is easier to address how to get there.
It is basically a maze or mine field of equipment and the allure of products makes it easy to miss why we should choose X or Y.

So going slow enough to select the right gear, or slow enough to listen to some cars to find out what appeals to you, could save you from doing something twice, or three + times.

I can make a case to do the drive and see what nick does and some other shops, at least in a sense of investigation.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
In their defense, that is not bad advice.
Anytime the noise is deadened and dampened, the need for power to overcome it goes down. People can spend it in money or their time to do the sound deadening part, and it is never a waste.
I know creating a solid base is a must and I have no issues with the sound deadening, it is a must do. I just want to do more than a basic speaker replacement, as part of the basic thought they said they had a small amp of approx 45w per channel they would install to brighten up the JL C1's or Morels Ultras, and make better use out of them vs just cutting out the factory's and plugging in new lower end replacements. I was looking at the Infinity Reference series on Crutchfields site and they sounded ok with my headphones but one of the shop guys panned them and pushed the Morels, he did not like the alum tweeters in the JL's either - lol Is my thought of ditching the 6 1/2's in the rear doors and putting 6x9's in the rear deck really going to make much difference? In my web reading and video watching it seems like it's about the same to just provide the fill for the rear and adding a sub is looking like something I need to do to really gain some lows. Sorry if my thoughts are nobbish, but in today's audio world I am most definitely a noob - lol
 

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Sounds like you might be talking to SoundWerks based on the brands you mentioned. If I were trying to keep the build to a reasonable price point with the brands they carry, I would probably stick with JL and Morel. I would start with a "simple" 2-way component set up front a single 12" subwoofer in the trunk. You can build off of that in the future if you decide you want more.

You can build the system around a single amp with a DSP like the VX1000/5i, but in your case I would probably do a separate DSP and amplifiers. This was you have some spare DSP channels and can add other amplifiers in the future if you decide you want to add rear speakers back in or a midrange up front for a 3-way. (I don't think either of those upgrades would be necessary.)

I would base the system around a JL TwK 88 which has 8 output channels, 8 input channels, plus optical and coaxial digital input. From there, feed the processed signals to a Morel MPS 5.950 or JL RD900/5. Use one of those to power the Maximo 602s up front and add something like a JL Audio 12W1v3-2 in a sealed enclosure in the trunk. Pricing shouldn't be too far off from what you were quoted and I think you'll have a better system over all with more flexibility to grow.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes it was Soundworks. Thanks rton20s for your time and suggestions I have a lot to learn.
 

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45w/ch is enough for tweeters and Midrange, unless you really like it loud.

In a two way, or three way system, the mid bass needs to play the low frequencies and that is where all the power gets used... so 45W to a woofer can be a limiter if you want to play it relatively loud... which may not be very loud if it is playing from 80-Hz.
I believe most people have way more power than they need for mid ranges and tweeters... but even I am not sure that 45W would work well in a two way on the woofers.

A sub also is where more power is used, and that helps lighten the load on a woofer, or at least proved the low notes that woofer not provide.

My only suggestion is that many (myself included) often make decisions which in the clarity of hind sight are not the best decisions. Whether need or want a two way, then that makes both the tweeter more challenging to play low enough, and woofer more challenging to play high enough. There are lots of speakers that do it fine, but it is easier with a midrange speaker set to cover that middle range if the upper and lower speakers are particularly good.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The Audison F8.9bit is 85W x 8 or 260W x 4 and has a pre amp output for a sub amp, I know you were talking the 45w amp they mentioned for the basic speaker replacement, the JL C1's and C2's have a sensitivity rating of 90.5/91 and min 10/15 rms so they should work well with that small of an amp, that was really just a min change they sugested to get better sound out of my system and they really don't want to do that because they don't think is will give me what I am looking for. It looks like I am going to go with a higher end set-up, just need to do more research :cool:
 

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@Robert1955 you never really responded to my recommendation to talk to @SkizeR at Apicella Auto Sound. If you think you might be up for taking the car that far for work, I would definitely reach out to Nick and see what he can do for you. He knows his stuff, and should be able to help guide you to a system that meets your performance and budget desires.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I did talk to Nick last night, thanks for telling me about him. I may make the drive up to see him, its only 250 miles from me. I am thinking I am going to try and plan this out in 2 or 3 stages to get to a good end point without the associated price tag hitting all at one time.
 

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I did talk to Nick last night, thanks for telling me about him. I may make the drive up to see him, its only 250 miles from me. I am thinking I am going to try and plan this out in 2 or 3 stages to get to a good end point without the associated price tag hitting all at one time.
Good deal. It might be worth just saving up and doing it all at once. A little delayed satisfaction, but probably worth it in the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok, after alot of reading and thinking I am going to stay with the 6 1/2"s in the rear doors and add a sub to the trunk. Will the 260w from the 2 bridged channels from the Audison F8.9 be enough power or should I have a mono amp just for the sub? Not looking to rattle windows a block away but to get some true lows back for a SQ system.
 

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260W can be sufficient depending on the subwoofer, enclosure design and expectations. I would look for a single efficient subwoofer. A 12" is probably the best compromise between space and output.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What type of box should I concider? Sealed or Ported? I know the shop I plan to use will have their thoughts, just want to look around some to get a feel for them.
 

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What type of box should I concider? Sealed or Ported? I know the shop I plan to use will have their thoughts, just want to look around some to get a feel for them.
Have you considered IB? If I still had a trunk, I'd run IB without question. How much can you do yourself?

The sealed/ported debate comes down to a couple of things. Ported are louder because they take advantage of both the front and rear waves, but the rear wave is delayed, and out of phase as certain frequencies. Sealed boxes are more accurate, but only use the front wave, so they don't get as loud. A well designed, low tuned, ported box is a great compromise, but that usually means giving up more space than most people want. IB behaves as a really big sealed box, you forfeit a bit of output, but the bass is super clean, and efficient, it doesn't take a lot of power to drive the subs. One drawback of IB is that displacement is important for output, so you need to use large subs, or multiple subs.
 

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Infinite Baffle, also known as a Trunk Baffle. Sometimes this is done on the trunk floor and vented to the atmosphere for a truly infinite baffle (separation) between one side of the subwoofer (vehicle trunk & interior) and the other (exterior). More commonly, infinite baffle refers to a continuous baffle placed along the back of the seats which separates one side of the subwoofer (vehicle interior) from the other (vehicle trunk).

Lots of examples can be found in this thread...
Post pics of your infinite/trunk baffle setup!
 
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