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DIY - 2016 Venza build log - I am going to keep at it until i get it right 😊

83K views 543 replies 59 participants last post by  AudioGal 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey all, I thought i would share my ideas, build and journey out there with the masses . I am no professional and I like to try different approaches and ideas. Learning as I go.

My goal is to get as close to the 2 channel home audio experience in my car as I can. My previous Yaris build was a great learning experience and I am going to build on top of that.

I do not have the system fully planned out and I am faking it till I make it. This is a SQ build not a boom boom or sql build.

I am going to use all my previous equipment.

tweets - Brax ML1
Mids - Brax GL6
Midbass - Brax ML 8
Rear fill - Brax GL3
Sub = ?

Proc. - Helix Ultra

Amps - (2) helix C-fours
(1) helix C-one.

Source - Fiio m11 pro - coax out
and maybe deck integration.

All positive , sharing of ideas, and inquiry focused conversation welcome and negative stuff keep to yourself please.

Let the journey begin with a .........

Vehicle selfie :D

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#113 ·
thats alright dumdum you are not forced to build anybody else's build :ROFLMAO:

Well In my install I see no advantage at all to kicks or cutting up the car to get it. My voice coil position is almost there already and i have great freq. response with no dips at all in the current location which I have shown. The left and right side are basically identical in response between the two sides as well. the mid bass plays down to 40 Hz solid and that is pretty good for a 3way front stage. I will always choose proper alignment of drivers over assumptions it does not matter :D. Everything matters and you pick your compromises that you can live with.

I can move my head inches in either direction and rotate ( swivel) my head and the stage is solid and does not collapse or shrink. it is pretty cool to listen to out of phase stuff as it really messes with the head with no apparent location or center to anything.

I can hardly feel any vibration in the enclosure as it sits and the door is a non-event. It is about speaker location to me door or not.

I can pull the enclosure off and put the original door panel back on and the car is back to stock in 20minutes with no extra holes or damage done so I view that as a win in my books. same with the pillars. the stock pillars can be put back in with no damage at all. So I am good with being able to do a bit of crazy but be able to put the car back to stock in very little time :cool:
 
#114 ·
Dumdum, hard to say without an experiment of normal aiming of the midbass but is it possible like you saw with kicks, that the nulls are shifted since the driver isn't playing primarily across the short side of the car but the longer length of the car? So it is possible the nulls were pushed OUT of the midbass frequency and into the subwoofer frequency so the nulls were no longer an issue. Again, that is a potential benefit but isn't able to be validated without a comparison of the ML8 in the same vehicle with normal door driver placement.
 
#115 ·
You can’t aim a midbass to lose the across the car null, it plays omni directional at freqs below well over 500hz with an 8”, to suggest otherwise is never going to happen

however…

What you can do is play it in such a narrow band you avoid the nulls with steep slopes, I’m fairly sure measurements with smaart at 1/24octave in the phase plot will show a standing wave/kink at some freq in the pass band in at least one midbass in this instance… unless it’s one of those freakish cars like my friends very special car that happens to have both the length and the across the car nulls line up and cancel each other out so the response at the listening position is unaltered from the nearfield of the driver
 
#117 ·
Amazing to see another Canuck do everything in the spirit of what this site exists to exemplify, the diy aspect. Wish I had the commitment to really try some crazy things like this, but not in the cards for me now. Looking forward to seeing more progress. This site has some really inspiring people on it. Great work so far.
 
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#118 ·
Thank you for the kind and supportive words 🤗🤗
It is never to late, one just needs to start and bite off the elephant one bite at a time!!!

I have made more progress in that the pods have been painted with custom fine texture paint and they have been mounted — pics to come

The midbass enclosures have been mounted as well but they are unfinished at this point - weather is getting to cold - and i will need to finish up the beauty work next year.

I built a temporary amp rack to house the amps, processor, router and a couple other things so i can get the system up and running in the car. The amp
rack is also a prototype test idea that is a cantilever design bolted down between the rear wheels that still allows me to access the spare tire and all access panels. No panels or plastic has been cut so the car can be returned to stock in no time.

The system is set up as a 3-way with no external sub( not needed) as the MB ‘s play down to 33 hz at the target curve as it sits now.

The system as a starting baseline is sounding great and the vertical on axis alignment of all
drivers is producing an incredible 3 dimensional sound stage as hoped for…

I am super happy with the minimal & overkill system that is setup as a basic 3-way.

I am so tempted to just leave it as a 3-way , maybe add rear fill and call it a day. I had a number of ideas i am/ was wantIng to try out but i may just enjoy this for a while.

I will forward pic’s when i get a chance.
 
#119 ·
I should add that it is and has been fun testing ideas and challenging myself on building ideas, skills and making mistakes and fixing them.

imho the gold is in building a vision, trying out new things and seeing it through to a working system that hopefully delivers on your vision. That has been the basis of what gives me motivation to try the crazy stuff …. so far so good … haha 🤓
 
#120 ·
Plain jane amp rack installled for winter!

It allows access tol my spare tire and i have almost all my cargo capacity in check.

Lots of options to beautify in the spring and summer months when i rebuild the rack and put in the rest of the system 😎

One C4 for the left side and one for the right side pretty simple eh!!


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#121 ·
Nice! can't help but wonder what is the power supply and Asus piece used for?
 
#124 ·
My new car digital music source.

I was not satisfied with the Fiio m11 pro or any other source so i decided to try something unique.

I installed a music server … running the innuos Sense OS through a wifi web interface.

Power supply regulates 12v for the wi-fi router and the innuos music server.

Innuos Zimi Mini mark 3 - which i can take between my house bd car. I can still use the fiio but i can also use this when i want to really enjoy the system 😎

Both systems connect through digital coax.

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Right under the rear seat arm rest… perfect fit 😁

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#134 ·
I installed a music server … running the innuos Sense OS through a wifi web interface.

Power supply regulates 12v for the wi-fi router and the innuos music server.

Innuos Zimi Mini mark 3 - which i can take between my house bd car.
This Innuos device looks proprietary, is that correct? I used to be a Home A/V installer and Automation Specialist, but I don’t remember hearing that name. It’s been a few years tho.

I’m considering installing a Raspberry Pi 4 or a mini-ITX PC to act as a music server, LED Controller, OBD Utility, and any other function I may think of, but I wanna try to stay away from proprietary systems. I was looking at Carberry and Automotive Grade Linux.

I like your idea, but I guess I’m looking for something geared more towards an Infotainment system with a 10” touchscreen. Does your device play high-res FLAC at 24-bit/96kHz?
 
#126 ·
Was just talking about something along these lines with @abizzle. I'm tagging him so he can see how you've done it. Thanks for sharing and as usual awesome job! Dave
 
#127 ·
You bet and thanks, The SQ difference is quite substantial across the board and well worth it imho .

The innuos is a giant killer and performs quite well in home circles.. It takes 12v in so it can work in a car although that is not its intend usage it is compact, rugged and sounds great.
 
#128 ·
Great work Audiogal if you remember your last thread I am a big fan of door enclosures. someday I may experiment with kicks or under seat, but I will never run mid-bass speakers IB in a door again.
Around .5-.6 ft3 was what my boxes came out to as well. I usually add AP ports to my door boxes as well as they are a bit small for my 9.5" Satori's I think. I never see a big difference on the RTA but they always sound better to me when I do this. I'm sure you have it figured out better than I do though.

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#141 ·
That’s awesome ... yeah I was kidding about 3” being whimsy , there only whimsy when trying to play low and loud...

kinda Crazy I can’t find a 3” rated for more then 60wrms ..... except one, dynaudio esotan 3.... there’s some really good 3”.... but you know how much more sound is made from a 6,

and for me, the 250-1k range is the best part of the music.

Yes I’ll pm you some pics 😊😊😊
 
#142 ·
No cross overs between 90 -2200hz i think plays a big role in the continuity of the human voice and instruments also. The 6.5" just has more range and because it does not have to dig deep the cone excursion is minimized and the midrange plays cleaner. Looking forward to the pic's (y)

I would love to hear your system some day and some of the others, especially those on the competition circuit but living up here makes it tough.
 
#144 ·
I am going to try something a little different for turning on the audio rig and wi-fi system. I am
not running the rig off the head unit and i am
only using a digital input source at this time.

I picked up a 12v relay that can be controlled from a FOB key. I am going to use this to turn my rig on/off independently from the car. It has a range of 30m or 100ft apparently. It is a cheap enough thing to try out.

The stereo can be up and running and sync’d to the wi-fi before i get to the car so there is no lag time.

Plus i do not have to worry about the car turning off after 15 minutes of circuit engine off usage.

Hopefully it works as anticipated

The unit has 4 channels so i can control up to 4 separate 12v triggers all for $20.

If i really like it and i want a better unit i will
pony up for it later. I may also put in a. mbattery saver relay to take the 12v trigger off line at a preset voltage . I will see 😁

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#147 ·
I picked up a 12v relay that can be controlled from a FOB key. I am going to use this to turn my rig on/off independently from the car. It has a range of 30m or 100ft apparently. It is a cheap enough thing to try out.
how are you going to post that without a link? haha I guess i'll just go google it but that little unit could be so useful for so many things.
 
#149 ·
I did my first test run today.

Started up the system in the house, then cued up the tunes i wanted to listen to and when i got to the car they where playing. Started the car and drive off.

The innuos Sense application has a digital
volume so i can also adjust that before going in the car from my phone or what ever web interface connected to my car wi-fi network.

Same with leaving a grocery store or leaving a restaurant. All up and running before i get in the car.

So i am pretty happy with the remote 12v trigger 😁
 
#151 ·
So a couple of changes to share. I have upgraded my wifi router to a Pepwave BR1 mini ltea unit which can support dual SIM cards for cellular internet.

i have also added a battery saver controller that has configurable setting to automatically shut off the 12v trigger to the system if the battery voltage drops below a certain point to prevent killing my battery.

And i changed out the key fob 12v trigger unit to a different unit with more range and a reliable rf connection for On/Off function.

I now have the option with the wifi lte router to run a microsoft surface pro which i bought used recently I i picked up the pro 4 for reasonable $.

I can now use a tablet like device to control the system and program the helix as it is windows based. I can at any time use a phone, tablet or the surface pro to control the innuos thru wifi.

The LTE capacity allows me to run maps and search functions via the internet on a nice big screen while driving plus play movies and multi media content. The system is really starting to shape up!!!

The rack is a bit messy looking however i will
be rebuilding it when the weather smartens up in a few months 😎

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#152 ·
And as an early b-day and christmas present to myself i picked up a set of ML6 mids to replace my GL6 mids. I now have a matched set.

ML1
ML6
ML8

I installed them last night and just listened on the GL6 tune. I am pretty excited as eve. with a suboptimal tune the improvement over the GL6 is evident.

Today is retune day !

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#154 ·
And as an early b-day and christmas present to myself i picked up a set of ML6 mids to replace my GL6 mids. I now have a matched set.

ML1
ML6
ML8

I installed them last night and just listened on the GL6 tune. I am pretty excited as eve. with a suboptimal tune the improvement over the GL6 is evident.

Today is retune day !

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View attachment 316048
Top shelf drivers.....very nice birthday and Christmas present - well played!

Looking forward to further impressions and maybe some REW screenshots.


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#161 ·
Update: Well my first true acid test completed over Christmas break. Two 8 hour drives to the farm in the country and back to the city plus another 6 hour drive in between the two road trips. I am supper happy with the Innuos music server, LTE router and the general overall SQ of the system. I was enjoying the music into hour 7 as I was hour 1 and this held true throughout the whole trip. This has never happened before. The smile never left my face and the time just flew by in all honesty.

On to rear fill to add the last bit of ambiance and then to start work on the official summer amp rack project and finsih out the doors properly including a healthy dose of sound deadening ( wind and road noise) as well.
 
#163 ·
Update: Well my first true acid test completed over Christmas break. Two 8 hour drives to the farm in the country and back to the city plus another 6 hour drive in between the two road trips. I am supper happy with the Innuos music server, LTE router and the general overall SQ of the system. I was enjoying the music into hour 7 as I was hour 1 and this held true throughout the whole trip. This has never happened before. The smile never left my face and the time just flew by in all honesty.

On to rear fill to add the last bit of ambiance and then to start work on the official summer amp rack project and finsih out the doors properly including a healthy dose of sound deadening ( wind and road noise) as well.
That is fantastic to hear! Great tunes reproduced really well make a long drive great for me! I’m hoping to do a 10 hour round trip next week to have the tune analyzed, so I’m looking forward to (hopefully) having a similar experience as you [emoji4]


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#162 ·
Oh and I also installed a Bluetooth HD HEC card into the Ultra to give me the option for another easy to go to source. Since the iPhones do not support APTX HD the SQ is just okay and a definite step down from the Innuos. I use this interface for kids phones, my phone or any device that cannot connect through BT. When I get a chance to test a APTX HD compatible source it will be interesting to hear the difference.

It is nice to have for the convenience and quick easy get in the car and drive factor. I installed it in anticipation of the new DSP tuning software coming out this year to allow for BT wireless tuning so we will see how that pans out. So now I have a top notch SQ option and the convenience option available which I can switch between using the Director.

So that is about where I am at until the weather decides to warm up from -27c. At least the tunes sound good !
 
#165 ·
Hey Audio Gal! Thought about you today - any updates since the weather has been getting better (at least down here it has)?


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Hey Bertholomey, haha ya it has started to warm up but not quite enough yet. I have built a in house test rig with DSP , amp and speakers to hone and play with. Working on SMAART skills , lol!!! Getting ready to put the new knowledge into the car soon. Still lots to do in the car yet. How about yourself? How is the Innuos working out?
 
#168 ·
An example of my test and play spread sheet mostly focused on IR, time domain and phase domain measurements, and playing. It is my work in progress and does not have all the formulas and linking completed yet and it is not meant to be an, be all end all thing if you know what I mean 🤪 :geek: :ROFLMAO:

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#177 ·
An example of my test and play spread sheet mostly focused on IR, time domain and phase domain measurements, and playing. It is my work in progress and does not have all the formulas and linking completed yet and it is not meant to be an, be all end all thing if you know what I mean [emoji2957] :geek: :ROFLMAO:

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Are you using different midbass crossovers for each side?


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#169 ·
But i am refining it to the point that I can measure, calculate and give me the DSP delay values based on the tuning parameters I am measuring for with this part of the setup and tune. The house testing is going great so far, lots learned !! If the weather smartens up I am going to play in the car this weekend maybe, as I have a handle on the measurements, what i should see a feel for the nuances and all that jazz and the basic pit falls.
 
#170 ·
Wow! Let me say that again....Wow!

You are enjoying the science with the art. My friend John Kiser is the same. All of this science and sound engineering is way over my head - as much as I have enjoyed watching John work his SMAART / SysTune apparatus, I’ve always thought the learning curve would be too steep for me.

It is very cool though to see the folks who want to know the how, why, and what is going on, to see how the sound can be improved, and the ability to make the improvements by leveraging their tools.


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#174 ·
Wow! Let me say that again....Wow!

You are enjoying the science with the art. My friend John Kiser is the same. All of this science and sound engineering is way over my head - as much as I have enjoyed watching John work his SMAART / SysTune apparatus, I’ve always thought the learning curve would be too steep for me.

It is very cool though to see the folks who want to know the how, why, and what is going on, to see how the sound can be improved, and the ability to make the improvements by leveraging their tools.


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Lol well said, science and art is so............ true. I really like both sides and getting a handle on the big picture and the nuances that go into the big picture. Some day I may be smart enough to understand it all !!!

Ya that darn learning curve is kind of interesting. Starting from total scratch with no electronics an/or audio knowledge makes it a super steep hill to put all the pieces together. Fortunately I have had various opportunities professionally to pick up a lot of stuff and bring that into the learning curve for undertaking this challenge. As things sink in the concepts start to collate and come together connect the dots so to speak !!

RTA is sort of an absolute viewpoint and 2 channel IR and transfer is a relative view of the system to a reference signal with a exact copy of the refence signal to compare to.

All fun and games !!
 
#171 ·
it must be nice to have all that time to do these A/B/C...Z comparisons before even putting anything into the car :)

I don't understand how a living room demo environment helps sort drivers given how much an automotive interior is acoustically radically different.

This is why I want to go with a DIRAC capable DSP and drivers that are generally well lauded for my install and let the software due the bulk of the heavy lifting on tuning.
 
#172 ·
I don't want to speak for her but, I think she is testing out a different way to tune. I don't believe she is testing speakers.
 
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