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DIY - 2016 Venza build log - I am going to keep at it until i get it right 😊

83K views 543 replies 59 participants last post by  AudioGal 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey all, I thought i would share my ideas, build and journey out there with the masses . I am no professional and I like to try different approaches and ideas. Learning as I go.

My goal is to get as close to the 2 channel home audio experience in my car as I can. My previous Yaris build was a great learning experience and I am going to build on top of that.

I do not have the system fully planned out and I am faking it till I make it. This is a SQ build not a boom boom or sql build.

I am going to use all my previous equipment.

tweets - Brax ML1
Mids - Brax GL6
Midbass - Brax ML 8
Rear fill - Brax GL3
Sub = ?

Proc. - Helix Ultra

Amps - (2) helix C-fours
(1) helix C-one.

Source - Fiio m11 pro - coax out
and maybe deck integration.

All positive , sharing of ideas, and inquiry focused conversation welcome and negative stuff keep to yourself please.

Let the journey begin with a .........

Vehicle selfie :D

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#179 ·
Phun with Phase , lol!!!

An example of summation, just one of many use cases I played with at the acoustic crossover +/- 10 dB overlap points between sub and main, determined via the magnitude trace.

The green line is the mid-bass and sub combined output before and yellow after phase alignment showing summation at the acoustic cross over point. The subs overall frequency BW is horrible. It is in a cheap Attend dual 10" enclosure. The sub response is very peaky which makes it very hard to match to the Mid-bass which rolls off to early and is not really playing that low either. But in any case it is good practice working with less than idea use-cases. So just a simple real example.

No gain adjustments or EQ adjustments between the traces, only Phase (delay) optimization in the acoustic cross over region. And again this is in the house and not the car :)

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#181 ·
Phun with Phase , lol!!!

An example of summation, just one of many use cases I played with at the acoustic crossover +/- 10 dB overlap points between sub and main, determined via the magnitude trace.

The green line is the mid-bass and sub combined output before and yellow after phase alignment showing summation at the acoustic cross over point. The subs overall frequency BW is horrible. It is in a cheap Attend dual 10" enclosure. The sub response is very peaky which makes it very hard to match to the Mid-bass which rolls off to early and is not really playing that low either. But in any case it is good practice working with less than idea use-cases. So just a simple real example.

No gain adjustments or EQ adjustments between the traces, only Phase (delay) optimization in the acoustic cross over region. And again this is in the house and not the car :)

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Remind me as well - were you going to use a sub in the car or simply use the 8’s in the doors?


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#182 · (Edited)
Why I get a chance to play with it in the car and validate some of my assumptions I can lay out some basics. I am still working through a few nuances, lol!!

This guy has some cool videos and I am leveraging his and a few others process ideas and making my own, since my whole system is active and I need to account for the change in delay across the left and right side and account for that to bring the two side back together in alignment after the phase adjustments.

 
#184 ·
My home test rig is using a hertz DSP which is very limiting in many ways, so I will need to move to the car soon so I can have the Helix DSP to try more things and firm up my book of knowledge. The more i add the less i know it seems, haha !!!! I might need to track down a used helix for my home rig, much more comfortable playing in the house.
 
#185 ·
Ok after many months i have started on the fab side of my system again.

I changed my door pods to
a more conventional layout and installed a 1inch baltic birch baffle. The enclosure is 16.75 litres.

I tried something different and packed the enclosures with sherpa wool.

I covered the enclosures with vinyl, and i sound dreadend my doors . I need to build the grill.

And i have changed out the Ml8-mid with the ML8 -sub. There is a hefty increase in authority and some more extension . My first time covering vinyl and it turned out pretty decent. Some mistakes but that is how it goes 😛

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#190 · (Edited)
Ok after many months i have started on the fab side of my system again.

I changed my door pods to
a more conventional layout and installed a 1inch baltic birch baffle. The enclosure is 16.75 litres.

I tried something different and packed the enclosures with sherpa wool.

I covered the enclosures with vinyl, and i sound dreadend my doors . I need to build the grill.

And i have changed out the Ml8-mid with the ML8 -sub. There is a hefty increase in authority and some more extension . My first time covering vinyl and it turned out pretty decent. Some mistakes but that is how it goes 😛

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View attachment 336677
NICE! Those door enclosure pods sure remind me a lot of the ones I made for my '93 Ford Aerostar Extended AWD van system back in the day. :)

I used that ugly beast to comfortably haul all of my photo gear and some crew or models for photo shoots back then. Was great for my surfing/camping expeditions as well.

I used the old reliable 8" Peerless XLS8 midbass drivers in the doors with excellent results. And the 1st Gen Diamond Audio HEX silk comp set that was made by Eton & LPG for the front stage mids and tweeters. Sony CDX-C910 head unit with Toslink output to Sony XDP-210EQ and then XDP-4000X digital processors, with 1 or 2 Infinity Beta 15X subwoofers in down-firing sealed enclosures that barely fit and slid under the 3rd row folding bench seat. Xtant and early Arc Audio amplifiers for power. Some cheap 3.5" Pioneer 2-way coaxials thrown in the rear hatch lid locations for rear fill and a separate preset for a "Tailgating" setup. Tons of Dynamat and neoprene CCF everywhere made it a nice and much quieter ride.

I need to dig out the photos. Of course they were all taken on "analog" film back then, so I need to find them and scan all of this stuff for posterity, haha. Good times.


Carry on! Very interested to see where you take it this time!

What about trying the Audison Bit One HD Virtuoso DSP with its 9-channels of FIR filters?
 
#188 ·
One word comes to mind here and that is dedicated. I have not the time, energy, or will anymore.
 
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#189 ·
Keep moving forward, always something to tweak and tune. The car audio bug comes and goes , however few hobbies touch so many disciplines and skills that it is fun to do !!

I have not even got to my amp
rack yet, and i want to refinish my dash pods and …… lol!!!
 
#195 ·
Well i decided to add the Brax ML8 grills as i thought they finished off the build doors wonderfully. The stainless steel looks incredible!!

Not the best pic as the garage was a little dark and the door only opens so far lol!!

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#200 ·
That was a great choice aesthetically and with a mind to protecting the cone from inadvertent bumps - especially by a service person - getting in or out quickly. Good call!


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Thanks, and by ones own kids too.... :rolleyes:. the previous mounting did not need it as the enclosure made it hard to get at the cone but with the new mounting method they are wide open for the taking, if i did not do something😲.

now i need to plan out my offical amp rack design and replace my winter temporary rack .... hmmmm so many options 🤓
 
#201 ·
AudioGal, I'm looking to do something similar with door pods. It's been looking to me like I'll need to simply cut the bottom portion of the door cards off to attach the boxes, but you appear to have successfully cut a hole in the cards to accommodate the boxes. Would you happen to have any additional photos of how you did this? Does the box attach to the door, then the card simply fits over it? Your work looks excellent, much better than I anticipate mine ending up if I lop off the bottom. Without knowing what audio qualities that each of your solutions yielded, I loved the extreme, pushing-the-limits insanity of your previous setup, although I think I'd personally rather live with your newer, stealthier, more compact config.

Thanks for continuing to update us on your vehicle, it's one of my favorite builds.
 
#202 ·
AudioGal, I'm looking to do something similar with door pods. It's been looking to me like I'll need to simply cut the bottom portion of the door cards off to attach the boxes, but you appear to have successfully cut a hole in the cards to accommodate the boxes. Would you happen to have any additional photos of how you did this? Does the box attach to the door, then the card simply fits over it? Your work looks excellent, much better than I anticipate mine ending up if I lop off the bottom. Without knowing what audio qualities that each of your solutions yielded, I loved the extreme, pushing-the-limits insanity of your previous setup, although I think I'd personally rather live with your newer, stealthier, more compact config.

Thanks for continuing to update us on your vehicle, it's one of my favorite builds.
Why thank you hella356 😊 and ya push the limits and try stuff out and live on the skinny branches , that is where the fun is anyhow!!

Ya i needed to fit the bigger magnet so the extreme enclosure had to go, that being said, the current enclosure performs very very well , and integrates with the dash speakers extremely well.

Based on my door design i decided to try and do an insert style. It was tricky and took a lot of fiddling and i went slow to ensure a tight fit. I think i have pictures earlier in the thread so have a look but the general idea is this and it is all about creating indexing points to index the door to the door panel and the enclosure. With the indexing the enclosure and door panel all have the exact same refence points.

I used two door panel attachment holes and one of the original speaker mounting holes as my index points.

I then created a flat template that would be the shape i wanted and as large as i needed. this took a lot of fiddly measurements but well worth it. the template was made out of 1/4 particle board or something like that. the template had mounting tabs at the three locations on it that where the exact same tabs i was going to use on the enclosure.

this template was used to dimension the enclosure by flush trimming the door mounting plate of the enclosure to the template. that became the shape that would poke through the door panel.

Since the door panel shared 2 of the three mounting (index points) as the door and the enclosure i could lay the same template panel on the back side of the door panel using the index points with dowels inserted. laying the template on the back side of the door skin i created a outline (using marker) of the template . I then nervously cut out the line on the inside ( margin of error) and i had the basic hole.

The basic enclosure outside dimension (back and walls) was built and using the indexing tabs laid it on the back if the door panel and finished the second roughed in cutout for the actual enclosure on the door panel. Sine the index holes where also the door card (panel mounting holes ) there was minimal opportunity for movement or misalignment. I did this for each side of the front doors.

Then I mounted to the door using 1/4 machine bolt nutserts . I them went through the process of putting the door panel on and finish out the final cut to allow for covering materials and trim pieces.

I took a lot of measurements, did more test fitting than i could count and all that type of stuff. For a raw amateur I am really happy wit how they turned out. The performance is excellent and the rattles from the door are minimal and easily handled with standard deadening and closed cell foam , etc..


Hopefully that makes some sense, if not ask away and i will do a better job of explaining :)
 
#203 ·
I was going to cut the door card in half but with the curvy design patterns on the door card and a few other factors i thought i would try doing an insert method instead. the fall back could very easily have been well that did not work so i need to cut the door card in half and go from there, lol!!!
 
#206 ·
Thank you. After looking over your earlier pics, I can see that the Venza doors have quite a bit more room (height) for an enclosure at the bottom than the doors of my Sonata have. It's going to be a squeeze to get an enclosure for the 7" Anarchy 704 drivers I have on-hand to fit. It looks like you could fit 10" drivers in your doors if you saw fit. Yeah, the curvy contours make things tricky. I will have to reassess whether an insert style cut on the door cards is possible - after taking a closer look at yours, it definitely looks like the way I'd prefer it, but if I have to simply lop off the bottom, so be it.
 
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#205 ·
Thanks LB Audio, the improvement to the low end is quite a dramatic improvement. Extended lows, more dynamic punch while retaining the musicality and rhythm in the lower notes with excellent pitch delineation and definition with no bloat or overhang or boominess. A very worthwhile upgrade !!

To be totally fair though the ML8 mid is a midbass driver so i was using it in the wrong application. Correct for my Yaris but not for the Venza.
 
#209 ·
And ya give it a go, which every way you decide it what's best for your build and needs. Please keep me posted hella356 😊
Hi, AudioGal. I'm finally getting ready to start the process. I'm curious (and could be mistaken) - it seems you used fastening points of the door cards as index points for the location of the boxes, in relation to both the doors and the door panels. That makes sense to me. Then you ended up drilling 3 new holes in the door metal, and attached the boxes to those holes via rivnuts or similar. Thus, the fastening points of the door cards were clear of the box mounting points, remained intact and open, and you were still able to utilize them to reattach the panels with the standard clips. Is this correct?
 
#210 ·
Hey Hella356, yes that is the idea. Use the common built in reference points to get everything lined up to the door card and the door. Once the enclosure could be properly mounted to the door i removed the tabs a the door card mounting locations. I cannot wait to see your progress :)
 
#211 ·
I thought i would post an unlikely improvement i installed for my enjoyment of music in my car. The Venza seemed really susceptible to wind noise through the front of the side windows. I tried everything. The doors are fully deadend and sealed, I installed extra weather stripping around the door edges. This past week I tried something different and I installed wind deflectors on all my windows. The benefit has been wonderfully positive and the side wind window ingress noise has been significantly reduced and basically eliminated. What was driving me nuts for over a year has been fixed once and for all. Maybe other cars have similar issues and this may help out. To say I am super impressed with the results would be an understatement 😀

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#214 ·
I thought i would post an unlikely improvement i installed for my enjoyment of music in my car. The Venza seemed really susceptible to wind noise through the front of the side windows. I tried everything. The doors are fully deadend and sealed, I installed extra weather stripping around the door edges. This past week I tried something different and I installed wind deflectors on all my windows. The benefit has been wonderfully positive and the side wind window ingress noise has been significantly reduced and basically eliminated. What was driving me nuts for over a year has been fixed once and for all. Maybe other cars have similar issues and this may help out. To say I am super impressed with the results would be an understatement 😀
Thanks for sharing. (y) I've thought about using these in the past because I have one older vehicle that has this same issue (fully sound deadened, so wind noise seems more prominent now), but I thought that while they might work to help keep rain out when your side windows are slightly opened, they might actually make wind noise worse.

I'll have to see if Weather-Tech makes them for my vehicle. They are a quality brand IMO and I've been happy with their other products.

Cheers
 
#212 ·
Thanks for the input, gal! I have my original door cards intact, so the spare ones I've been using as my test units can be hacked up however I choose. So I've decided to just cut the bottoms off them completely. I figure it will be a lot quicker to get the boxes installed and running. Also means that I could swap different size/shape boxes without having to mess with the cards at all. I have Anarchy 704 and Dayton Epique, which each have a range of potential enclosure sizes to try. Thinking I'll try building two sizes: somewhere around 0.13cf and 0.26cf. Fortunately, both speakers have the same bolt pattern for easy swapping. Ideally, one of the speaker sets in a small box will win out sonically, which would allow for the "insert" style you're using with my original cards. Glad to have a extra set of cards. Hell, the whole car is somewhat of a testing/learning rig for my next car, anyway.

Awesome the wind deflectors have been so helpful! I'll have to look into that. My wind noise isn't bad, but, hey, every bit helps.
 
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#216 ·
Hella, build the larger enclosure first obviously, and then you can simply add solid objects inside it in increments to see how small you might be able build the final enclosure before the response significantly changes to where it is non-ideal for your implementation to the subwoofer(s) and/or midrange. If you have a Dayton Audio DATS v3 you can easily measure the impedance with each change in enclosure volume to see where and how much impedance rises in relation to Resonance (Fs).
 
#213 ·
I thought about doing the door cut in half thing but on my doors it would have been less optimal for what i wanted. I feel the same way about my car as it is an experiment to try different ideas too, lol!!

I also have my original door cards intact and untouched, including A-pillars. I could put the car back to totally stock in probably 30 minutes if I wanted to. So it is good to have spares as you say, lol!!
 
#217 ·
Well, opps i did it again. A super nice opportunity came up from a friend and i could not refuse so I pulled the trigger and decided to try the Brax GX 2400 amp. I am still using my winter rack ( temp rack). I needed to rewire and rearrange somethings as well as add an extra 1/2 inch to the height of the rack and cut the sides to allow for cable room but it is installed and making sound. A very rough safe tune is in place. This amp rack is a temp install and once I have my final amp solution I will redo the whole thing to bring it up to the same level of completion as the front stage.

I had to change the speaker arrangement from a separate left and right amp to the C-fours running bridged for the subs in the doors. And the Brax amp running the mids and tweets. The mids and tweets cover 100-20Khz range so almost full range anyhow. With how the initial sound is shaping up ( first impressions) i think I am going to be saving for a 2nd amp to pair with the first amp. The speculation of if the two amps sound the same, close or substantially different is over for me now. I could never get a real suitable answer from anybody so now I know. Once i get a better tune in place and some more hours on the amp I can report out my thoughts into the ether-verse , at some point in the future, lol!!



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#218 ·
Nice! I'm underway with the door boxes. If you would like to comment, I have a thread about it. Don't want to keep clogging up your posts.

Door box project
 
#221 ·
Thanks a million for the encouragement & advice, AudioGal! The door box project has turned out great, even with un-broken-in drivers & a quick initial tune.
 
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#224 ·
Hey Jim, it was an awesome day yesterday for sure!!

Ya the long standing mystery for my curiousity has been solved finally about the difference between the cfour and the GX 2400. I could get no clear answer from anyone not even ATF.

The Brax is an awesome SQ amp improving on the strengths of the cfour in everyway. From micro dynamic shading and flow, instrument body, separation and general sense of realism. Including a real sense of 3D spatial cues and placements. The dynamics are incredible both small and large with the amp not going into dynamic compression at all with a sense of ease and flow that is not forced, edgy or unnatural.

There is oddels of resolution with out fatiguing edgy detail common with lots of electronics. in a system driving for wonderful SQ with drive and rhythm this amp delivers in spades. If you appreciate really good 2channel audio in the home , have the experience and gear that does that for you there , then the differences are very evident. The brax really could work in a high end home situation no problem.

The attack and transient decay of each note is there and unforced.

The cfour is an absolutely excellent amp especially compared to most car audio amps i have had the privilege of hearing to date. The Brax steps things up to the realm of high end home audio amps and delivers the same type of presentation and performance.

No brightness, edginess or farigue at all. Smooth, natural and effortless. The soundstage is wide, deep and has delineation in height and within the stage. Each instrument or vocalist has a place and space . No smearing and overlap creating confusion and compression.

Drawbacks would be the price obviously, and the heat generated from this unit. The amp is very transparent and will not hide a bad install, upstream gear choices ( including BT sources) . Tuning will be key to get the balance you like. This is not the amp to put in an colour (flavour) your system or make everything and source material sound pleasing or the same. If that is your thing , then i would
suggest a different amp. Chasing a brand name or what ever would do this amp
a disservice imho. You need to take care of all
your ducks.

Is the amp worth the price over the cfour , for my system it is to me no doubt about it!! 😎
 
#226 ·
Oops i did it AGAIN ! I liked the first one so much i decided to try a second one. I managed to get it installed into the temp rack. I will finish installing and setting up this weekend. But for now i made it this far.

Next weekend i may pull things apart and build a more permanent amp rack. We will see how ambitious i get!!

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#229 ·
The crazy part is that; @AudioGal sent me a message, showing pics of this new amp... then half an hour later, she says; "I can't stand staring at it in the wooden box, I need to install it"... then 15 minutes later, she send me pics of the new amp installed!

I work pretty fast, when I get going... but I think she may have broken my speed record!

Don't we all turn back into little kids, when we get a new toy... congrats @AudioGal. I also see a Brax DSP in your future (and mine)...
 
#236 ·
I decided to tidy things up a bit more and organize the rack a bit differently. Practicing some ideas before i commit to a new rack build.


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