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Discussion Starter · #281 ·
Sub is at 96Hz LR24 low pass. It’s an 8” Alpine active sub so doesn’t drop real low but fine for most music.


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Aah makes sense. I’m running two pioneer Z10LS4 shallow mount (which nobody else seems to own) so they don’t seem to play too low either (not much under 30hz from the sounds of it) but they are very punchy.
 

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I can't wait for you to get it all dialed in. You put in so much work and it's going to pay off. REW will show you the way (i hope). I expect to dive into it as well. I have too much of a scientific brain not to. Execution on the other hand....ehh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #283 ·
I can't wait for you to get it all dialed in. You put in so much work and it's going to pay off. REW will show you the way (i hope). I expect to dive into it as well. I have too much of a scientific brain not to. Execution on the other hand....ehh.

definitely soon, within the next weekend or two - right now I am reading up on REW (just downloaded to my laptop and tablet) - the only thing is I find the instructions are not SUPER intuitive for a first-timer. I have a few very basic procedural questions such as - do we sit outside the car while tuning? In the passenger seat or back seat? All this would affect the reading (less so sitting in back seat I guess) but then if you sit outside the vehicle, you'll have to run the wire outside to the computer. I assume slightly lowering the window is preferable to leaving the door slightly ajar.


Also if I run the REQ tones through the DSP AUX input, I assume that would be fine because we are just taking measurements of each speaker characteristics themselves with sample noises rather than from a specific source (ie spotify etc.) so it shouldn't make much of a difference. It also states to remove all crossover settings to do the tests, do I assume this is also in the DSP, and then I will have to ensure that in REW, for tweeters measurement, the test tones don't go below Fs (ie 1350hZ)? Simple questions to help me get started, but the process itself seems straightforward enough, just time consuming!
 

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Discussion Starter · #284 ·
..or am I just better to skip the REW test tones/filters portion (as per the REW instruction page) and go with playing plain old pink noise from REW in each speaker individually, then in pairs, then check the summation, and manually tune from the DSP software at each step where I see dips and peaks? This is what I thought to have understood from most tuners (ie youtube etc.) but I never see them go through the actual process, only showing the before and after correction curves.
 

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I had the same reaction when I first considered using REW.....reading through all the stuff on the site didn’t make any sense.

When you get good with REW, using it for frequency response and auto EQ, you find out that you only use a few things, and it is pretty simple.

I have always used correlated pink noise played through my primary source.

I set a consistent volume on the output so I always get a fairly consistent output on the graphs - makes it easier to compare results.

There are some general view settings in the recording screen that is easy to duplicate from someone’s screenshot.

It is pretty straightforward to record an all speakers, all one side, pairs of drivers, single driver. Get the pink noise going, hit the red button in the top right, move the mic around the head in whatever fashion you like, then hit the Save button to capture the response.

Go to the output screen to see the result - hit the ‘All SPL’ tab (going from memory) - and you should see what you measured.

On the left hand side, you can see an entry for each measured result - you can rename, change colors of the tracing, and save the result to your computer.

At the bottom of the screen, you can pick the tracings to be displayed.

I typically start with left tweeter, right tweeter, mids, mid bass, sub, all left side, all right side, all speakers. Then I go to the view screen - name everything, save everything, then choose what to view so I can start to decide on what changes need to happen.

You can also pull in target curves as well to evaluate how your measured response lines up (or doesn’t) with a curve that lines up with your preferred sound.

That is all I have from memory.


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Discussion Starter · #286 ·
I had the same reaction when I first considered using REW.....reading through all the stuff on the site didn’t make any sense.

When you get good with REW, using it for frequency response and auto EQ, you find out that you only use a few things, and it is pretty simple.

I have always used correlated pink noise played through my primary source.

I set a consistent volume on the output so I always get a fairly consistent output on the graphs - makes it easier to compare results.

There are some general view settings in the recording screen that is easy to duplicate from someone’s screenshot.

It is pretty straightforward to record an all speakers, all one side, pairs of drivers, single driver. Get the pink noise going, hit the red button in the top right, move the mic around the head in whatever fashion you like, then hit the Save button to capture the response.

Go to the output screen to see the result - hit the ‘All SPL’ tab (going from memory) - and you should see what you measured.

On the left hand side, you can see an entry for each measured result - you can rename, change colors of the tracing, and save the result to your computer.

At the bottom of the screen, you can pick the tracings to be displayed.

I typically start with left tweeter, right tweeter, mids, mid bass, sub, all left side, all right side, all speakers. Then I go to the view screen - name everything, save everything, then choose what to view so I can start to decide on what changes need to happen.

You can also pull in target curves as well to evaluate how your measured response lines up (or doesn’t) with a curve that lines up with your preferred sound.

That is all I have from memory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
awesome thanks!

Opened up REW and had a look around, it’s a pretty awesome software. Noticed It has built in pink noise generator as well and you can modify what frequency ranges you want it to play. Ill probably go that route for measuring response of each speaker then each pair, and then summing all, using the aux input from my speaker directly to dsp.
 

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Not to thread jack but if you tuned by ear or some other method first, did you change a lot after using REW?
 

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Discussion Starter · #288 ·
Not to thread jack but if you tuned by ear or some other method first, did you change a lot after using REW?
I<m pretty confident that even if you are a pro installer, there would be a lot of peaks and valleys to fix, even if the placement and install were very good. Just looking at PSSound's tuning youtube vids of several of the cars he has done, he shows the before and after and a LOT of changes were made, even if minor, to get a proper response. I would say tuning is more important than getting higher quality speakers, as you could tune a really cheap speaker system (with good install) and get pretty amazing sound from it.
 

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It's settled, i have to buy a mic and do REW. Once i finish the build. So much for being done at xmas. Hoping for end of January now.

It's interesting what you said about tuning and cheap speakers. I would agree with that. Dsp vs no dsp on some infinity kappa was night and day. They weren't bad speakers but really came alive once off the passive network.
 

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If you're following Andy's tuning guide, then the mic goes in the car and you go outside the car. You would have to crack the window for the USB cable. I'm not sure how much the cracked window effects the higher frequency measurements, but I do know in my car there is a bit more bass when the window is cracked open...
 

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Discussion Starter · #291 ·
If you're following Andy's tuning guide, then the mic goes in the car and you go outside the car. You would have to crack the window for the USB cable. I'm not sure how much the cracked window effects the higher frequency measurements, but I do know in my car there is a bit more bass when the window is cracked open...
cool, yes I am currently following Andy's (audiofrog) guide to tuning. Well reading through it many times - have yet to begin the actual tuning phase.
 

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I should add that if you were only tuning front speakers and sub, you could sit in the back seat. But because you have rear speakers to tune, you'll need to be outside.
Unfortunately, in my car I can't sit in the back seat lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #293 ·
I should add that if you were only tuning front speakers and sub, you could sit in the back seat. But because you have rear speakers to tune, you'll need to be outside.
Unfortunately, in my car I can't sit in the back seat lol
haha thanks

As for my rear fill, I really wanted to try differential rear fill, but after looking into it, looks like my DSP is incapable of doing so. I still feel that the rears add something positive between when I mute and unmute them, but probably not optimal in terms of staging. Live and learn for the next build! I will be trying to set them crossed around 250hZ to 5000 Hz (as people do with differential rear fill) and see if that gives a more desired effect, I just can't give each speaker the 50% left and 50% right signals.
 

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In a post I can't find, Andy suggested that if you can't do differential, you can just delay and tune them as you would any speaker, and then lower their level until it sounds as well as it can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #295 ·
In a post I can't find, Andy suggested that if you can't do differential, you can just delay and tune them as you would any speaker, and then lower their level until it sounds as well as it can.
excellent - I tried searching for a response like that but very hard to find without people putting their two cents in about differential rear fill and how it SHOULD be set up. Will proceed like that. Right now they are crossed around 100dB but I may go higher to avoid having issues with my fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #296 ·
Update: I have to add a post about CHECK - DOUBLE CHECK and TRIPLE CHECK all your settings when you think there is an issue somewhere. Despite being very detail-oriented, with so many factors in a build, including excitement to get it working, it's easy to forger small things.

I hadn't mentioned this previously in the thread, but I always felt like my subwoofers were not performing as they should. They had amazing punch, but no low end. My gut told me something was off, and it can't just be due to them being low-profile subs, since I had a single low-profile 12 inch before in a box I built and it seemed to get lower.

I re-verified my amp crossover settings. I had put both subsonic and x-over filter to MAX, thinking that would leave them fully open so that the DSP would be the only one to do its thing.

Well, what I didn't realize is that I had the sub-sonic filter set the wrong way - was set at 80Hz when it should have been closer to the minimum (which is 10Hz) - just for added safety, I set it around the quarter turn mark which is 20Hz - i know these subs won't play under that.

WOW did my music come to life...rap songs sound as they should. Too much so - I will have to cut the subs a bit.

Since I played with the filter settings, I will now go back and re-set the gain using my SMD-DD1 at head unit max volume, I have a feeling that I will detect some distortion at higher volume of gain now.
 

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In a post I can't find, Andy suggested that if you can't do differential, you can just delay and tune them as you would any speaker, and then lower their level until it sounds as well as it can.
excellent - I tried searching for a response like that but very hard to find without people putting their two cents in about differential rear fill and how it SHOULD be set up. Will proceed like that. Right now they are crossed around 100dB but I may go higher to avoid having issues with my fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #298 ·
excellent thanks!
 

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Went with Noico - did much research, the only slightly better option would have probably been SecondSkin and it is literally 8 times the price to get it here - there is no way it is close to 8x the performance. I liked working with the Noico. Also did not notice any smell. Went on easy enough and cut nicely. I remember 10+ years ago using Fatmat - that stuff was not a treat! smelly as hell too since they used an asphalt base.

Used 4 sheets in the trunk and have 5 left - probably will order another half pack (4-5 more sheets) since I would like to go heavy on the front doors, and light on rear doors. Also not sure if I will do the rear hatch yet, but probably do one piece in there.
I used noico in my 2018 accord, worked really well and not expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #300 ·
small update: got my amplifier OEM male plug delivered today - will need to take some time to transfer the old plugs to this new one, solder and shrink wrap the connections. Nice thing is the pins on the back are easy to bend so I can make them straight and then trim to connect. I’ll be shrink wrapping the 12V power and ground to ensure they don’t mess with anything if the plug shifts under the seat while driving.

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tomorrow is TUNING DAY! Hoping I can get it done in a few hours (half day) but as it is my first real tune I’ll be taking my time. Will document and let everyone know how it goes!
 
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