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2018 VW Golf Sportwagen
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I can't find the time to read all the stuff about REW. there's so much. I need the "do this, this and this" version. Maybe if i just download it, it will be easier. Oh and get a mic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #302 ·
I can't find the time to read all the stuff about REW. there's so much. I need the "do this, this and this" version. Maybe if i just download it, it will be easier. Oh and get a mic.
Just initially playing around with the program and connecting the mic, not all that bad. MiniDSP has a pretty good and quick setup guide to get going, then I’ll follow audiofrog guide from there!
 

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Good to know. Speaking of audio frog... While their crossover guide is full of excellent info, i do not like the way 24db slopes sound with my mids. They lack oomph. My ears prefer 12db LR. What REW shows might sway my perception once i see the graph. Hoping to get my sub and false floor done this weekend. It's tricky because the spare tire is off center by like 2 inches but i want the sub centered of course. That's for another thread though.
 

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I can't find the time to read all the stuff about REW. there's so much. I need the "do this, this and this" version. Maybe if i just download it, it will be easier. Oh and get a mic.
The audiofrog guide gives you the basics you need to know to start tuning with REW. You can go from there but if you start with the guide you should see good results right off the bat.
 

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Go look at the Audiofrog measurement mic, there is a document on that page on setting up REW. The procedure will work with any mic.
 

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small update: got my amplifier OEM male plug delivered today - will need to take some time to transfer the old plugs to this new one, solder and shrink wrap the connections. Nice thing is the pins on the back are easy to bend so I can make them straight and then trim to connect. I’ll be shrink wrapping the 12V power and ground to ensure they don’t mess with anything if the plug shifts under the seat while driving.

View attachment 321795
View attachment 321794


tomorrow is TUNING DAY! Hoping I can get it done in a few hours (half day) but as it is my first real tune I’ll be taking my time. Will document and let everyone know how it goes!
Nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #307 ·
So, started tuning and WOW am I learning a lot. Honestly not hard for me, just very time consuming.

i started following the audiofrog guide but soon realized it was indeed very basic and the scale is also basic - I decided to follow the advice from pssound and set to 1/48db scale and saw quite a bit more detail in terms of peaks and valleys.

i started tuning with the graphic equalizer but you only can do certain frequencies and once it’s set and you go back to the PEQ page, you can’t go back after or it resets. You can always fine tune from the parametric EQ screen and settings save as long as you download. You canselect any of the 31 bands and virtually input any exact frequency, amountyou want to add or subtract and then the Q value. I found this method to be the easiest.

omly got a rough tune on the two door woofers and stopped for lunch.
Weirdly I found my right speaker to be a few sub lower overall from the right woofer so I lowered the output level of right speaker a tad (is this how you are supposed to do it?

fyi I downloaded the audiofrog target curve and imported it into REW and I am matching each speaker to that as best I can with 1/48db resolution.
 

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The fun starts when you play both sides together. Each side will look so good on its own, and then together will be much different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #309 · (Edited)
Well, I already tried the woofers together and they sum up pretty equal.

they only have one dip around 600hz that I won’t be able to tune it, just the speakers and the cabin gain. I know that it happens.

Still have peaks and dips but much more linear than it was so progress!

will be moving to tweeters next then subs and hopefully everything sums nicely.
 

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In my car, the midrange is where most of the trouble is. When you display the left side, right side, and both together, you can see where you have phase issues between the sides by where the response for both sides dips down to meet or go below the individual sides. Something else I’ve tried to highlight phasing issues: play all speakers with correlated and uncorrelated pink noise. Where the response differs is likely caused by phase misalignment between the sides.

The part that took me the longest to be happy with was the subwoofer to midbass transition. Look at it carefully with each side + subs compared to all speakers. I don’t recall all the things I did to improve mine, I think I needed to adjust time alignment on both my sub (I only have 1) and one midbass driver, experiment with the crossover frequency, and crossover alignment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #311 ·
In my car, the midrange is where most of the trouble is. When you display the left side, right side, and both together, you can see where you have phase issues between the sides by where the response for both sides dips down to meet or go below the individual sides. Something else I’ve tried to highlight phasing issues: play all speakers with correlated and uncorrelated pink noise. Where the response differs is likely caused by phase misalignment between the sides.

The part that took me the longest to be happy with was the subwoofer to midbass transition. Look at it carefully with each side + subs compared to all speakers. I don’t recall all the things I did to improve mine, I think I needed to adjust time alignment on both my sub (I only have 1) and one midbass driver, experiment with the crossover frequency, and crossover alignment.
Your midrange phase issues to me sound like a miscalculation in time alignment. I had no such issues tuning and I even tried for fun putting the tweeters out of phase and saw a big dip, then put em back and all speakers summed up nicely.

I will post screenshots in a bit of the before/after. All I can say is wow.
 

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I'm happy you're getting the results you want so far. From your engineering background, previous systems and fabrication skills, i could tell this would be an awesome build. Maybe you can set me straight on something? When people talk about center stage, is this the center of the dash or center to your listening position? I have a hard time with it being center dash because that's to the right of me. But if i go center steering wheel I'm afraid I'll lose width (if that's a thing). Maybe I'm over thinking it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #313 ·
Alright fellow audio enthusiasts, after 6 hours of tuning (2x 3 hours and a short break for lunch) I can say I am extremely happy with where my system is at - especially given it is the first time tuning a DSP EVER.

The umik-1 is a must honestly, it does MAGIC.

Along with Audiofrog target curve, I was able to get a pretty linear response and fix MANY major dips and peaks. The biggest fix was the bass - these shallow mount subs can really hit. I had to turn them down to -10 at first, and after a bit of listening I settled on them being at -9 level since I like a little more bass in my music.

If I put more time into it, I am sure I could make it even more linear. But, as this is not a competition car, and I was using 1/48 octave RTA and 1/6 smoothing which is above what was suggested in the audiofrog guide.

As I have learned from my research and watching many vids from people like PSSounds, there are some dips that just are not fixable no matter how much you play with it. In my case, this was the 500-650hZ range, in which the install and cabin gain probably came into play with my midbass speakers. No worries though, sometimes you just have to accept that and do your best with the rest.

Now onto the screenshots - I just ended up taking of each pair of speakers, since after tuning each side of each pair, there were no real major differences besides matching the volume;


First off, the woofers pair before tuning;


Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line



After tuning;


Rectangle Slope Font Line Plot





next was tweeters BEFORE tuning - some major issues I had to iron out;




Rectangle Black Slope Font Plot



I am quite proud of how the tweeters turned out honestly, a reeally nice flat response up until around 15-16K and then dropped off due to them not being on axis (again - installation results) - had they been installed on axis in a proper pillar pod, they would most likely be flat up until 18-19khz, but I am very pleased nonetheless;

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line



And now for the subs - I knew these were peaky around 40-55 Hz ish just by ear, and I was not far off. Also had to lower the volume to match well with the other speakers;


Light Product Rectangle Slope Font




and tuned:


Light Product Rectangle Slope Plot



The rear fill I was less worried about but just wanted something somewhat linear from them - as such I did not spend as much time on them. They were quite a bit lower in volume than the fronts but that is OK, they are there for the effect. crossover points at 250hz to 5000hz;


before tuning:

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line



and after tuning:



Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line






finally, putting everything together, the entire system tuned;



Product Rectangle Slope Font Plot




besides the dip from 500-700-ish, I am very happy with the linearity for a non-pro installer and first time tuning.

There is another small dip at the crossover point of the woofer and tweeter around 2.8K, I may try to spend more time working that one out in the future, but after listening to some music honestly I am amazed at how much detail I now have and how everything sounds together. It gets loud enough and stays clear the entire way. More detail than I have ever heard before. Would love to hear a proper SQ system to compare and discover where my faults lie!

This was a fun journey and learning experience, which I am glad to share with you all.
 

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2021 Camaro 2SS
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Awesome results! Tuning is addictive though so I'm sure you'll end up spending a lot more time trying different curves, XO points and EQ just for fun. I just finally had to pull the USB cable and MIC out of my car yesterday, months after my install and first tune, because I couldn't stop messing around trying to improve lol.
 
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Discussion Starter · #316 ·
Awesome results! Tuning is addictive though so I'm sure you'll end up spending a lot more time trying different curves, XO points and EQ just for fun. I just finally had to pull the USB cable and MIC out of my car yesterday, months after my install and first tune, because I couldn't stop messing around trying to improve lol.
oh I am sure I will go back and try some new things just for fun! I also wanted to do a passenger seat tune for demo'ing to friends.

I really was focused on getting a good tune and finishing up this build before baby comes in about 7 weeks, since after that, I don't see myself working on the car at all! I'll call it a hard deadline ;)

All that is left for this build (other than enjoying it) is finishing up two beauty panels in trunk and re-connecting speaker wires via the OEM plug under the seat! I am waiting on a router bit to arrive that I ordered to do those beauty panels - it's a 60-degree bevel bit which will give the contour of my beauty panels a really nice OEM style finish. I even bought a new, larger router with 1/2-inch collet just to do these beauty panels! Was on sale for like 70% off though so can't complain!
 

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Discussion Starter · #317 ·
Decided to keep a simple solution for the beauty panel above the subwoofers. I ordered two 12-inch round steel mesh speaker grills from my local electronics store, I plan to flush them into the top beauty panel, hopefully using magnets they will hold in place since they are metal. Then wrap the beauty panel in carpet. 60-degree bevel on the sides and front. Then I will have one more beauty panel from the rear of that panel to the rear of the seats, which will cover the amps, also wrapped in carpet. This will give a stepped look to the trunk, and protect all of my gear while allowing me to still transport all kinds of stuff in the hatch, including strollers, renovations supplies for my multiplex, etc etc.

I really wanted to do the molded metal mesh, but the piece I would need to buy is $128 plus shipping, probably $150 for the small piece of aluminum mesh, then the work required to make the mold and then press it, will be too much before baby arrives. I will go with this solution and it will fit my needs albeit a little less fancy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #319 ·
my grills are pretty similar to this. Amazon.com

JT just bolted from the bottom:


daily driving mode with the factory false floor on top:
Very nice! Thank you for sharing - that first picture SO CLEAN! I’d even leave it like that! You’ve confirmed my choice :D
Since my subs and amp rack come up higher off the floor, I can’t use the OEM false floor. I could put another cover on top of the subs which would essentially come flush with amp racks floor and make the whole thing super stealth - maybe later on.
 
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