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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve been debating with myself on finding a 6x9 and tweeter pair, matching preferably, to go with a Phoenix Gold MX600.4 ([email protected] or [email protected]). I’ve been trying to narrow it down to the Audiofrog GS690/GS10 or the Hybrid Audio U69/U1 combination. I’ve been wanting the most amount of mid bass (yes, I know it’s install dependent). But I haven’t heard any of these speakers but trying to find a pair used or cheap new.

Any help or suggestions?


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I think you’re asking a lot out of a 1” tweeter as a 6x9, like a 6.5 isn’t (always) the best when it gets above 2,500Hz. The GS10 tweeter is recommended to be crossed near 3,500Hz. If you cross it below there, you’ll need to be careful with the power/volume. This is why AF has the GB15 on the GB side to integrate with the GB60 mid as the 1.5” tweeter can cross lower to keep the GB60 in its sweet spot.

I couldn't find anything on the website for the HAT U1 tweeter you mentioned but I think you meant the C1. Considering it is a 20mm tweeter and not even a 1” tweeter, I doubt it would do well below 3,500Hz. So unless the U69 is an amazing driver that can play really well up high, I think you’re going to be in a similar situation as I mentioned with the GS690 and GS10.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think you’re asking a lot out of a 1” tweeter as a 6x9, like a 6.5 isn’t (always) the best when it gets above 2,500Hz. The GS10 tweeter is recommended to be crossed near 3,500Hz. If you cross it below there, you’ll need to be careful with the power/volume. This is why AF has the GB15 on the GB side to integrate with the GB60 mid as the 1.5” tweeter can cross lower to keep the GB60 in its sweet spot.

I couldn't find anything on the website for the HAT U1 tweeter you mentioned but I think you meant the C1. Considering it is a 20mm tweeter and not even a 1” tweeter, I doubt it would do well below 3,500Hz. So unless the U69 is an amazing driver that can play really well up high, I think you’re going to be in a similar situation as I mentioned with the GS690 and GS10.
They are the tweeters in the component set. I found a set by themselves on Audiointensity.com for sale but they come as a kit so I’d imagine they work fine together as a whole. I don’t know if I can fit a 1.5” in the factory locations. I can try, but would hate to buy a driver for it to not fit then resell.


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They are the tweeters in the component set. I found a set by themselves on Audiointensity.com for sale but they come as a kit so I’d imagine they work fine together as a whole. I don’t know if I can fit a 1.5” in the factory locations. I can try, but would hate to buy a driver for it to not fit then resell.
They may very well be fine together as I haven’t heard them. But physics is physics. I was going to start a discussion on beaming and explain this but I found this post and it reinforces my physics is physics thought.


So in the case of your 6x9, it’s beaming will vary depending on how you mount it.

And just because they put some components together doesn’t necessarily mean it will cover the entire frequency range (+/- 3dB standard) in a normal car install. Some people will think they sound very good and others that have heard very accurate speakers might think differently. Ultimately it only matters that you are happy, which means trying to hear them if you can but even that won’t help completely unless you hear them installed in a car similar to your install. Car speakers in a board will rarely sound like that in a car because the car audio environment isn’t conducive to audio and will interact with the sounds waves.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That’s the main issue because 1) I can’t find anyone who has them installed near me, given that I’ve never heard them and two) I don’t want to go over this and replace stuff from uncertainty when I install it all.


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I understand and wish I could give you more actionable advice. I’ve shared some of my concerns and it has little to do with brand. If you said you were getting the AF GB60 midbass, which is a great midbass and the GB10, which is a great little tweeter, I’d have concerns because they are good speakers but a 2-way isn’t the best for that tweeter. That’s why Andy designed the larger GB15 tweeter to be able to play low enough to match the GB60, which has been measured and reviewed to play quite high cleanly in its own right.

So I have concerns about that GS10 tweeter and the U1/C1 tweeter is even smaller at 20mm so I have serious concerns about it simply from a physics perspective. In general we know how a speaker by a quality manufacturer will perform by looking at reliable specs Though the devil is in the details of design, construction, install, and tune (DSP). But again, in general, someone with experience can get a decent idea of what might work well just by looking at some specs.

And if you were dealing with a good 6.5”, which was known to work well a little higher, I could relax some on the tweeter by thinking you could just play the midbass a little higher. But when you start getting to an 8” or 6x9”, you’re really on the edge of having a speaker that can play high enough to mate with a smaller tweeter and this is when you really need to step up to a larger tweeter or one that is known to play a little lower.

Again, I’m talking generalities and if you were dealing with just a smaller tweeter or just a larger midbass, it wouldn’t be as big a deal but with you combining the two, I’m concerned you may get some dropoff in the fairly important 2,000-3000Hz range.

Where do you plan to put a tweeter and what dimensions do you have to play with? If we can get you fixed up with a slightly larger tweeter, I think the HAT 6x9 or the AF GS690 you mentioned would work well.
 

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I wouldn't worry with trying to be smarter than the manufacturer's engineers. If they are paired together by a reputable manufacturer, they will work well together when installed well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I understand and wish I could give you more actionable advice. I’ve shared some of my concerns and it has little to do with brand. If you said you were getting the AF GB60 midbass, which is a great midbass and the GB10, which is a great little tweeter, I’d have concerns because they are good speakers but a 2-way isn’t the best for that tweeter. That’s why Andy designed the larger GB15 tweeter to be able to play low enough to match the GB60, which has been measured and reviewed to play quite high cleanly in its own right.

So I have concerns about that GS10 tweeter and the U1/C1 tweeter is even smaller at 20mm so I have serious concerns about it simply from a physics perspective. In general we know how a speaker by a quality manufacturer will perform by looking at reliable specs Though the devil is in the details of design, construction, install, and tune (DSP). But again, in general, someone with experience can get a decent idea of what might work well just by looking at some specs.

And if you were dealing with a good 6.5”, which was known to work well a little higher, I could relax some on the tweeter by thinking you could just play the midbass a little higher. But when you start getting to an 8” or 6x9”, you’re really on the edge of having a speaker that can play high enough to mate with a smaller tweeter and this is when you really need to step up to a larger tweeter or one that is known to play a little lower.

Again, I’m talking generalities and if you were dealing with just a smaller tweeter or just a larger midbass, it wouldn’t be as big a deal but with you combining the two, I’m concerned you may get some dropoff in the fairly important 2,000-3000Hz range.

Where do you plan to put a tweeter and what dimensions do you have to play with? If we can get you fixed up with a slightly larger tweeter, I think the HAT 6x9 or the AF GS690 you mentioned would work well.
They go deep in the dash on the a pillar but I will have to measure when I take them out.


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I couldn’t find much information since HAT doesn’t have extensive speaker specs of graphs on their site.

Scott Buwalda himself suggests the C1 is good down to about 3,500Hz, which is what I expected.

And here’s the page for the Hybrid Audio Unity 69, not very much info and no frequency graph. Page mentions it can go up to 3,800Hz but I can guarantee it won‘t be smooth/flat above 2,500Hz. Maybe contact HAT and see if they will send you a frequency graph for the U69.

Let’s look at a speaker at Madisound where you can get more information about a speaker Including a frequency diagram with 0, 30, 60 off axis lines. I just picked a woofer and this is a fairly expensive Seas Excel woofer. This is what I’m talking about when I mention the beaming and the affect a larger driver will have when installed lower in a door.

I’m not trying to talk you out of a speaker but I’m trying to inform you, the 2,000-3,500Hz range won’t be perfectly flat when installed in your car and that may be just fine. DSP can take care of some issues though may not be able to fix everything. You may not notice or you may get used to the sound in your car and it very well may sound great. But like I said, if you can get a slightly larger tweeter, you’ll have more tuning options to mate with a larger driver.

Note that this is also why 3-way is so popular. A tweeter and a 6.5/6x9/8 are often nearing their limits due to physics so throw in a mid and all speakers are kept out of beaming so the off-axis differentiated lines don’t come into play.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
And if you have the depth, this is a popular tweeter for home and auto and it has a deep chamber version that can be crossed even lower. It is a 1” tweeter but the deep chamber should get you close to 2,000-2,500Hz where you could mate well with a 6x9.

There are specs of all of the U69 variations on the website. Also, the U1 is on there as well for response graph.


I understand why 3 ways are so popular, but I am not wanting to try and fab anything into the truck just yet. If I could fit any more, I probably would although I don't think I can fit anything more than just a 1" tweeter. If there is a slight fall around the high 2s, low 3s, I'm honestly okay with that for the most part because I usually tune it down anyways for personal preference.
 

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I saw that last night when looking at the U1 but they didn’t have any technical specs of the tweeter such as Fs.

And there aren’t any off-axis graphs for the U69,just a +3,0,-3 dB on the tweeter, assuming settings on the passive crossover.

I’ve given you technical knowledge, knowledge that I was able to backup with links to provide more information. I had a thought on where that HAT tweeter was capable of playing and the designer of the speakers agreed (found after I made my statements using technical specs). I’ve explained speaker beaming, which affects all speakers and why. So I’ve given you knowledge and it is up to you to move forward. I wish you the best and hope your system sounds great.

And I completely understand about not wanting to do a 3-way, that was simply explaining the beaming and why it is so popular. You can get there with a 2-way but not (necessarily) with just any components.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
W
I saw that last night when looking at the U1 but they didn’t have any technical specs of the tweeter such as Fs.

And there aren’t any off-axis graphs for the U69,just a +3,0,-3 dB on the tweeter, assuming settings on the passive crossover.

I’ve given you technical knowledge, knowledge that I was able to backup with links to provide more information. I had a thought on where that HAT tweeter was capable of playing and the designer of the speakers agreed (found after I made my statements using technical specs). I’ve explained speaker beaming, which affects all speakers and why. So I’ve given you knowledge and it is up to you to move forward. I wish you the best and hope your system sounds great.

And I completely understand about not wanting to do a 3-way, that was simply explaining the beaming and why it is so popular. You can get there with a 2-way but not (necessarily) with just any components.
Well, I appreciate your input. I had a 3-way in my old car (C3cx, SI TM MKII) but don't wanna do any fab work in this car. Your input hasn't been put to nothing if that puts your mind to ease at all.
 

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One other thing, realize that specs give a range but once you get to the edges of said range, you’re getting to the edge of where they work best. Once you install them into your vehicle, which is different from other vehicles and installs, your system is a product of the install too. If you were to look up where to cross a tweet or mid, you’ll get ranges but you won’t get a specific number for a speaker in your car. This is because you try different crossover points and slopes to see what sounds best in your car, just like you might play with placement of a speaker or sub in the home. The more flexibility you have in integrating two speakers, the better off you’ll be. If you’re pushing the limits of where two speakers can integrate, you’ll lose some flexibility in optimizing their sound to your car. Then again, if you’re using the passive crossovers, this will be taken care of for you and you have to hope the single (one size fits all) crossover point works well in your car. It may very well.

But everything is a trade off, perfection is not possible as there are always trade offs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
One other thing, realize that specs give a range but once you get to the edges of said range, you’re getting to the edge of where they work best. Once you install them into your vehicle, which is different from other vehicles and installs, your system is a product of the install too. If you were to look up where to cross a tweet or mid, you’ll get ranges but you won’t get a specific number for a speaker in your car. This is because you try different crossover points and slopes to see what sounds best in your car, just like you might play with placement of a speaker or sub in the home. The more flexibility you have in integrating two speakers, the better off you’ll be. If you’re pushing the limits of where two speakers can integrate, you’ll lose some flexibility in optimizing their sound to your car. Then again, if you’re using the passive crossovers, this will be taken care of for you and you have to hope the single (one size fits all) crossover point works well in your car. It may very well.

But everything is a trade off, perfection is not possible as there are always trade offs.
For sure. I know everything changes once it's installed and then the tune/install takes over.
 

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I will tell you the freqs that a dedicated midrange in a 3 way system does too well ! 1k,2k,3k, & 4k. 2k and 3k especially are always way too loud ! I automatically attenuate -6db and usually end up going -12db.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I will tell you the freqs that a dedicated midrange in a 3 way system does too well ! 1k,2k,3k, & 4k. 2k and 3k especially are always way too loud ! I automatically attenuate -6db and usually end up going -12db.
I’m the same way. High 2s goes down like -6 to -9


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