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Your tweeters look much better now. I'd be willing to bet the odd responses you were showing before (drop-off) were because you had one running reverse polarity. You can also apply 1/6 or 1/12th smoothing to get them to look a little nicer.

I've been loading house curves and bringing them up in the RTA so I can do "live" tuning by continuously recording (and just resetting the average). It's been working well.
 

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Discussion Starter #202
Well the tweeters are definitely more pronounced now for sure. Almost to the point of fatigue on my drive in to work this morning. I hear a lot of tweet but not much mid bass/range comparatively speaking. After raising the gains on the 6 channel amp i may end up having to raise the gain on the sub after all! LOL

For sure the tweeter must have been causing an issue because of the polarity. It's weird though, when using the polarity tester that i finally got from China all the speakers were in phase but the left tweeter was intermittently in and out of phase. I would have thought it would be either in or out but i guess maybe bring a tweeter the resistance value changes depending on frequency. Or so i remember reading.

I will now be able to sit and tune a bit more that i have a better base line. Actually here at work loaded up REW on my desktop to mess with my results and determine EQ points. Benefit of being a mushroom manager, LOL.

I am using the Audio Frog house curve for my house curve. The long article Andy put out with explanations and directions of how to tune is so very informative! Wow.


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Discussion Starter #203
So they're re-sealing my driveway this week and I probably wont be able to do any tuning on the system until they're done. I do however wanna update a couple things. I spent a little time using the EQ function of REW to come up with some eq points to put into the dsp. I think I kinda have that basic down, although by far still a noob.

The drive home tonight definitely made clear to me I have to tone down the tweeters, too bright although perfectly crisp and clear. Just too much for my ears at a loud level for more that a song or two. Maybe 5 or 10 db down on the level from the dsp should fix that.

The Bluetooth dongle is absolutely brilliant and works flawlessly!! So easy to operate and to stream directly via APT-X. 1 click and I'm streaming. Using this the adjust everything i so fluid and easy with this thing especially when I don't wanna lug out the laptop for something easy I think will be its biggest attribute there.

Now for the negative stuff, remember a few posts back where the wife mentioned my system not sounding right (or full? Well i drove her car (2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited,no sub etc, basic) to fill it up and do a quick grocery run while she's still working,so I hooked up my phone to her car and noticed 2 things right away.

First Android auto hooks up the first time every-time compared to the stock WRX unit ( have to unplug and re-plug to get it running )

Secondly and most importantly her car simply sounds better, more full than my car! Mind you of course it is nowhere near the same amount of low end and doesn't have the same tweeter cleanness or level. But man it sounds good! I found myself longing for the amount of mid-bass that car has compared to mine whether at a low or loud volume. I see what she means by "fuller sound". I don't get why I (we) have to work so hard for that result.I know I'm gonna get flamed for this and please feel free to state what I might have wrong etc. I want what she's got plus more bass and a bit more top end. I'm sure the radio has a built in curve to it to allow for that and that is really what I'm working at I guess. Maybe I'll take a moment this week and measure her car to compare and submit here. Well I'll post updates as I can the next couple days, maybe tuning with the Bluetooth instead of the laptop while the driveway is unusable:unsure:😄
 

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I feel the same way about the midbass in my car. I have read raving reviews about the GB60's, but they are weak in my car. The tweeters and midranges are amazing, but I am disappointed with the midbass so far. Granted I am not finished tuning, but with 120 watts going to them, they should be a lot more impressive than they are. Some songs sound better than others and luckily the GB10D2 in the trunk sounds great, but for the most part the midbass is weak. MTuna complained about the same thing. Now you and me. I am starting to think it's not the drivers. It must be the doors. I am starting to think it may be worth making some sort of enclosure for the midbass in these cars. My doors are pretty well sealed. I covered the entire door with sound deadener.
 

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Here are my thoughts on your latest measurements from yesterday:

Big dip in midrange. Midrange speakers are like almost 10db too low of level compared to rest of system.
See the big dip from like 600-6000 Hz:
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Then see how the midrange level is much lower than rest of system
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Just bump that level up, the tweeters down, do some light eq, and you should be good to go.

For what its worth, I think the midbass is great in my impreza hatchback, with my helix C6B woofers in my two way system. Ill take some measurement of my current system today or tomorrow to compare.
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Ok that's some great insight there you guys. Frequentflyer, I can't imagine that with what we both have done to our doors to desk then up etc, that the stick doors in a Jeep have a better midbass response. My amp puts out 125 watts per channel, I would also think that's enough to push these things sufficiently to produce what we think it should.

I wonder if it's simply the cabin cancelling something out. Or possibly the head unit itself causing some weird issue we both (not sure about Mtuna) have such head units after all.

Spwath, thanks! That's kinda what i was coming up with with the little bit i fiddled at work on REW. The tweeter didn't need much based on what i saw also. And yes by far the mid-range needs the most help there apparently. I will measure again to ensure a stable and repeatable result to base adjustments on. Think i should simply raise the gain on the mid range vchannel a hair or EQ it instead?

The Impreza is basically the same car as ours, your midbass is nice and present? Did you do anything above what we've done to our doors to get that? What's your secret!!?? LOL. Seriously though we're ( I ) are lacking in that department.

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I would raise the gain a bit (if you have the room to raise the gain without clipping). EQing to get higher has its own issues, raising the gain is the best option if you can.

Yeah, at least to me, my midbass seems very good. I just sealed my doors, and that's it. One thing it could be, I think my sub is crossed kinda high, like 80 hz I think. There was a topic somewhere about using a sub to get better midbass, as the door locations can have issues, so it could be that. Looking at your measurements I would guess you sub is crossed somewhere around 60 hz?
 

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Discussion Starter #208
Yes I'm crossed at 60 for the sub as per Andy's recommendation. It would be easy for me to raise it to 80 now with the Bluetooth dongle. I'll give it a shot. Not sure where the others are crossed over at though.

I think the article you mention was by Erinh and there's a video for it as well. Completely forgot about it, should look into it. Thanks sir for shaking the nogin!

I should have a little bit of wiggle room on the mid channel gain, I'll try that first and then EQ the rest of the way, thank you!.

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I have completely taken the OE headunit out of the equation with the DAP I'm using with Tidal. I don't even turn it on anymore (and try to forget I am paying for XM Radio until next Spring :mad:). I have been meaning to connect the front OE output channels to the E&F input channels of the Helix to use an an "AUX" input when I get a Bluetooth call, which if I set it up correctly in the IO, would most likely allow me to hear the call through the front channels, but I haven't done that yet. The DAP optical output is probably providing the cleanest/flattest signal I am going to get into the DSP.

I'm sure your wife's jeep has rear speakers also, which is providing rear fill and a much "fuller" sound in addition to the fact OE systems tend to unnaturally boost the lows and the highs to make them sound better than they are. As much as we car audio enthusiast focus on in-your-face staging/imaging, I think the majority of us deep down inside:) prefer being immersed in sound from all different directions or at least a little bit from behind us. I don't have the option for adding rear fill at this point as I only went with a 6-channel DSP/Amp combo. If I had gone with the P Eight, that'd been an option, but the P Eight wouldn't have fit under my seat. Are you still running your rear fill?

I am nowhere near done tuning, but I think it's about as good as it's going to get while the weather is hot right now. I can't be out there for more than 30-45 minutes without feeling like I just jumped in a lake.

REW EQ does work well, but depending on your install, I find it adds two many EQ points which many of are not necessary, so I think at some point (again when the weather gets more tolerable and I can comfortably sit in the car without dying from heat exhaustion), I will start from scratch and attempt to manually tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #210
It had slipped my mind about your DAP! Yeah you are definitely giving that DSP the best and flattest possible signal to process (as long as the DAP doesn't introduce its own curve, if that's even possible). I'm sure you're right about the rear fill adding to the overall system on my wife's car although if I swing my head back there and listen I can barely make anything out of them. I am currently running the rear speakers (uselessly probably) off the stock head unit. I could always add a small amp on its own for those 2 speakers as i thankfully have all the needed wiring back there already. A small Audio Control AMC-300.2 would probably be more than enough. Only problem I can come up with is the rear channels have so little output from stock i don't know how much it would actually add. Of course that would be out of the loop DSP wise but could be an option to get some "completeness" to the sound. You are right though about the different goals for the sound signature. I honestly am not looking for a pure front sound stage with perfect imaging and center of steering wheel center image. More like filling the cabin with good clean sound nice and loud and good bass.

I know the tuning process is far from easy and far from done by any means on my car (or yours apparently). But I still find it hard to believe that using all this high quality equipment with processing power etc, that it is so elusive to get what I (we) are looking for. A while back I had removed the dsp from the signal path and simply had the LC6-1200 running the sub, rear channels and front tweeter and mid-bass through my spare 2 way passive crossovers and it sounded good! Yes i needed to mess with gains etc to get it right but man, WTF. I feel like trying something like that again to test and see what it sounds like.

I hear you about the heat man, its sweltering here day and night. Most of the time its 90 in the afternoon and 88 at night😆! And yes it can get uncomfortable to tune in the heat but there really is no real way around it. Although with my Bluetooth option I might be able to sit in the living room and tune from the comfort of a/c! REW doesn't have a ton of points on my system based on my limited knowledge of using the EQ function of REW. I will attempt to input all the settings I came up with and try it out at some point, whether I do it later this week or sneak away for an hour for lunch to do it in the car using the dongle.I hope with some effort and the SUPER HELPFUL MEMBERS of this forum (really cant thank everyone enough) I can get to where it sounds like I want it to, or at least really close.
 

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I would raise the gain a bit (if you have the room to raise the gain without clipping). EQing to get higher has its own issues, raising the gain is the best option if you can.

Yeah, at least to me, my midbass seems very good. I just sealed my doors, and that's it. One thing it could be, I think my sub is crossed kinda high, like 80 hz I think. There was a topic somewhere about using a sub to get better midbass, as the door locations can have issues, so it could be that. Looking at your measurements I would guess you sub is crossed somewhere around 60 hz?
Spwath,

Do you have your sub and MB at 80 or are they separated? I used the 60/80 split with my 10".

Btw THX, the first chance I get I think I will swap out my GB10D2 for a GB12D4. I am kinda kicking myself for not "going big". I almost picked one up in the classifieds the other day, but unfortunately the deal fell through. The only thing is I don't know if my enclosure will take at 12 without me tearing it up. I'd probably have to offload it on NASOIC.
 

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Spwath,

Do you have your sub and MB at 80 or are they separated? I used the 60/80 split with my 10".

Btw THX, the first chance I get I think I will swap out my GB10D2 for a GB12D4. I am kinda kicking myself for not "going big". I almost picked one up in the classifieds the other day, but unfortunately the deal fell through. The only thing is I don't know if my enclosure will take at 12 without me tearing it up. I'd probably have to offload it on NASOIC.
Pretty sure both at 80. I wouldn't think you would want to cross them at different frequencies...
 

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Discussion Starter #214
I initially had mine set up with the 60-80 split but my measurements were at what i had been listening to lately
80
80-500
500-5000
5000-20000

All 24db LW

Flyer, did you get the driver's or the passenger side? I think you had ordered the passenger side but if you've got the driver's side.... LOL

On a side note i think i may have blown or damaged my sub or sub amp, accidentally maxed out the volume while streaming by holding the volume up button accidentally and i heard a ton of distortion and even bothered my ears for a moment. I'll check later or tomorrow.

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Discussion Starter #216
I hope the x over change helps you out man.

As for my sub might have just worked one of the voicecoil wires loose and running on only one. Major drop in volume but speaker sounds ok when i put my ear to it. I'll pull the sub out tomorrow or tonight if i get a chance. I really hope it's that.


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Discussion Starter #217
Couldn't help myself pulled the sub out. Ok seems I dodged a bullet! Pulled the speaker and the wires seemed ok. Pushed the come down and let it come up, no noise or scraping, during secure and spider also. Powered up the system and the sub was barely moving, decided to check if the fact it wasn't in the box made a difference. It's odd, as i was putting it into the enclosure it came back to life. I must have a wire not making proper contact somewhere on the speaker, or so i thought.

Bolted the sub back in fully and it sounded great again, while stressing from the Bluetooth adapter, changed over to the head unit for Bluetooth on the same song, output noticeably lower. Swapped back to the DSP dongle and volume comes back to normal. Radio same lowish output, back to dongle, loud. Thought it might be a setting in the DSP that somehow got changed and couldn't find anything.

While i was in the app for the DSP, while listening to music i tried swapping polarity on each channel independently to see if there was any change with respect to the mid bass/range. Leaving it as normal in phase was by far the best sounding. Took the time to put in all the EQ changes i came up with in REW. Need to measure again, but it's still lacking in mid bass.

I think the sub issue might have been a quirk, will monitor it over the next few days to see if there's anything off again, right now sounds normal as before. Odd but I'll take it over having any damage.

Flyer, did you ever decide to use the threaded inserts to bolt down your sub to the enclosure, it did you stick with the screws you had before? I'm gonna have to change to those as the screw holes have been a bit over used. It's on there but i feel the inserts would be better. Spoke to the guys at Wicked a month or so ago and they said regular inserts work fine but maybe use a bit of glue on them to prevent any leaks or backing out.




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Ok, i just took a measurement to compare my car to yours. Seems the dip at 1000k-3000k ish could be car acoustics related, or we both just have things similary set up. Overall the systems are pretty similarly set up. I can see why you say too much tweeters though.
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Discussion Starter #219
OK that is an interesting comparison there. for both of us to have the dip in that range I agree must be something with the cabin. Are you running a 3 way setup? If so where are your mids and tweeters? I've got a pretty significant drop in the sub between 65-95 which I find odd and disappointing. Yeah the tweeters are a bit loud there, LOL. I wonder if its due to my mounting choice (a pillars basically firing at each other, so in the drivers seat the left tweet is basically perpendicular to me. You definitely don't have a mid-bass dip compared to my peaky mess. I put in the EQ recommendations as per REW and have to remeasure. I don't feel it was a better result (wife didn't think so either) based on listening only. Once I re-measure will post the results. Tropical Storm coming through this weekend so I'm not sure I'll be able to do so this weekend but lets see how it goes. Thanks again for the comparison!
 

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Those CarAV mounts look nice.

I think I am going to pull my door panels off again to investigate. I have a feeling something is touching either both or one of my GB60's. Whether it is the foam ring or what, I have no idea, but I am getting weird responses out of them. Pics in my build thread.
Times two on that one mate...huge props for the CarAV find and also the NVX baffles...we are obviously in winter down here and I noticed some water in the doors when I was adding sound deadening which left me a little concerned (prior to removal of the OEM plastic weather proof piece as well!). Hopefully delivery doesn't take that long but at that price I can't pass those mounts up.
Believe it or not - despite the fact that the Metra ones are both right handed or whatever - they aren't available in Australia and I have to import from the US 🤦‍♂️ :rolleyes: so that CarAv find really makes a MASSIVE difference for me mate, really appreciated!
Sorry to squirt this is as I know you guys are going full on at REW/RTA stuff...
 
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