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Discussion Starter #224
And here are measurement of the midranges 3 additional ways

cup enclosure no grille
no cup no grille
no cup with grille
all 3 versions left and right separately


just an exercise in checking differences
 

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Discussion Starter #225
Try using a 5db scale on the left hand side when you tune.

Below is a 5db scale and then a 20db. You can see how you lose a lot of detail with the 20db.

View attachment 275489

View attachment 275490
Damn, sorry didn't see this till now, soon as i get back to the computer I'll try to figure out how to change the scale and update the results.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
 

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OK that is an interesting comparison there. for both of us to have the dip in that range I agree must be something with the cabin. Are you running a 3 way setup? If so where are your mids and tweeters? I've got a pretty significant drop in the sub between 65-95 which I find odd and disappointing. Yeah the tweeters are a bit loud there, LOL. I wonder if its due to my mounting choice (a pillars basically firing at each other, so in the drivers seat the left tweet is basically perpendicular to me. You definitely don't have a mid-bass dip compared to my peaky mess. I put in the EQ recommendations as per REW and have to remeasure. I don't feel it was a better result (wife didn't think so either) based on listening only. Once I re-measure will post the results. Tropical Storm coming through this weekend so I'm not sure I'll be able to do so this weekend but lets see how it goes. Thanks again for the comparison!
So i just have a two way setup. 6.5" woofer in stock location, tweeter mounted on door panel in the little window area by the A pillar, firing basically on axis toward my ears. Here is a picture of my old tweeters mounted, my new ones are in the same position basically. I forgot where crossover is, maybe around 3k Hz i think.
 

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Discussion Starter #227
Not sure if I'm stupid, dumb or just plain blind, how do i change to a 5db scale as you recommended?

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Discussion Starter #233
Seems the enclosures did add something notable to the midrange. Great verification that the GS-25 at least,likes having and enclosure even if it is small.

Below is an RTA and Sweep recording of the system as of today. Let me know your thoughts or comments.
 

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You're probably looking for something that looks like this:

275599


We spoke about this the other day, but with only 10 bands of EQ, you're kind of limited to how refined you're going to get your response, especially with the dash speakers. Having the midranges and/or tweeters in the dash locations really introduces some funky responses and needs a lot of processing power (30+ band parametric EQ) to flatten things out. I've spent HOURS just to get my tweeters flattened out and just moving on to the midranges now.
 

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Discussion Starter #236
Yeah, I know you're right that is the curve I'm looking for. And yes I'm sure I'm limited to what I can do with the DSP-408 10 band EQ. I'm gonna have to tweak as much as I can with what I've got until I can get the Helix I want, selling a BNIB LC6-1200 is a good starting point, LOL!

But here's the thing I had mentioned I wanted to try going retro using passive crossovers etc to see what it would look like. And guess what, that's what those to pics above are, The 6.5's and tweeters on a set of passive crossovers from my old Infinity's, the rear doors as fill and nothing else,not even a sub (thought I might get lucky, but no).

I took the Dayton out of the loop, took the head unit output to the A.C. amp and that's it. semi stock setup just with better crossovers and more power. And you know, its not half bad like that, plenty of mid bass/bass from the front doors where they should be. I know you were concerned with the lack of mid-bass from the GB60's Flyer, but let me tell ya plenty fine with the GS60's output. So rest assured its in there to extract!

Unfortunately the high level in to the LC6 isn't converted to the Line Out RCA's of the amp to provide signal to the Sub amp. But Its not horrible without it, obviously missing what an actual sub adds but still not bad for a stock-ish setup.

I'm going to go back and put the DSP back in there and start tuning the crap out of what I've got as FrequentFlyer mentioned. Hopefully I can make this at least sound as good as I feel it sounds now using the DSP.

What gets me and I can't seem to find a good answer to it is, why does a simple 2 way passive crossover provide a better sounding experience ( to my ear at least ) than a DSP with the same slopes and points? I compared 2 songs to try out, Jealousy by Pet Shop Bots and Secrets by One Republic. In both instances I had mid-bass up front where it should be vs the DSP setup, the crescendo towards the end of Jealousy is actually impactful instead of a whimper, and Secrets comes through loud and clear.I know that timing has a ton to do with where bass is perceived and I watched ErinH's video on that subject intently.

I will no doubt have to do much more sitting and adjusting on the DSP to get the results I feel Ishould have with so much extra processing and flexibility.

Time to let this damn storm go through and get everything back in the loop and take a proper stab at this thing. Frequent i will follow your lead on the tuning aspect and concentrate on only one section/speaker at a time in order to have the best chance at the results you have.
 

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Wow, I thought that was with a sub. You've got a pretty good peak there at 55hz.

You'll be a lot happier with the Helix, whenever you can go that route. I basically took something that looked like this:

275613


And made it look like this:

275614


Like I said, I needed every bit of 30 bands of parametric EQ to do this. I could probably use some more, but I think if I played around with some of the Q-values, I could have gotten away with using fewer bands. This took a lot of time and I still plan on tweaking it a bit in the 2-5k slope region.
 

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Discussion Starter #238
Wow, I thought that was with a sub. You've got a pretty good peak there at 55hz.
LMAO, yeah surprising yet nice to know the speakers can put it out, not sure how much the rears added to that if at all. Couldn't get the sub to have signal but again not bad at all. I feel the Helix is going to be the way to go for sure. Time to actually sell off that spare amp I've got instead of having it collect dust.

That's a mighty impressive change you made to your (tweet) sound man! If I understand, you basically sat in the car with pink noise playing and raised and lowered bands until you got there, per speaker and then the pair? I would assume you had ear plugs or headphones on? Thanks again for the inspiration! And yeah both of you are right, Helix in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #239
So I might piss a few people off with this but here goes, I got myself a Kicker Keyloc to tryout. Free so why why the heck not?! I am posting the results below, no EQ but with time alignment best i could based on ErinH's website. Interesting how temp and humidity changes the delay results slightly.

Even though I thought the car sounded decent with the passive crossovers, rear "fill" and no sub, I definitely miss the sub a great deal. Not to mention I'd be "wasting" the GS-25's by not using them. So i went back to active 3 way no fill (for now) with the Keyloc to give the Dayton its best chance at the results I hope to achieve.

I will, over the next couple days, sit in the car and manually try to even out the results. Maybe I'll set a base line EQ using REW and the tweak after to give myself a bit of a head start. Also need to sort out an alternator whine at first start up only (about 1-3 seconds) that has been bothering me since i put in the Dayton.May be due to the fact the Dayton has single ended RCA's vs everything else having differential. Using twisted pair interconnects by the way.

Wish me luck!
 

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So I might piss a few people off with this but here goes, I got myself a Kicker Keyloc to tryout. Free so why why the heck not?! I am posting the results below, no EQ but with time alignment best i could based on ErinH's website. Interesting how temp and humidity changes the delay results slightly.

Even though I thought the car sounded decent with the passive crossovers, rear "fill" and no sub, I definitely miss the sub a great deal. Not to mention I'd be "wasting" the GS-25's by not using them. So i went back to active 3 way no fill (for now) with the Keyloc to give the Dayton its best chance at the results I hope to achieve.

I will, over the next couple days, sit in the car and manually try to even out the results. Maybe I'll set a base line EQ using REW and the tweak after to give myself a bit of a head start. Also need to sort out an alternator whine at first start up only (about 1-3 seconds) that has been bothering me since i put in the Dayton.May be due to the fact the Dayton has single ended RCA's vs everything else having differential. Using twisted pair interconnects by the way.

Wish me luck!
It's not looking too bad. This is with no EQ? Looks like your tweeters drop off a lot after 10k. Is this on purpose?

I plan on RTA'ing my midrange with the IB mount I made before I designed my enclosures. I am curious how it changes the response. I want to make sure I am not choking those GB25's out with too small of an enclosure.
 
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