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2021 GMC Sierra AT4
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So for anyone following my build log, I have been trialing the Morel Supremo Piccolo and MM3 in my truck for a couple weeks now and really have been enjoying them, they check every box for me. I've been enjoying them enough to officially swap to them and trying to weigh the benefits of mounting options.

If someone was interested in my entire dash pod with the BLAM MS3 and TSM 45 MG Tweeter with the same interior truck, I would be open to selling the whole package and purchasing a new set of dash pods to house the MM3 mid. Regardless of the sale, I will end up with the MM3 mid mounted in the dash pods Nick built for me, just weighing whether to retrofit my existing pods or have him make some new ones.

With that said - my question comes down to keeping the Piccolo mounted in the dash pod firing into the windshield or go to on axis A pillar mounts. In the dash pod, it really wasn't difficult to tune at all and would maintain the extremely stealth look I have. But MTI is willing to build some remotely for me as they have plenty of same model trucks they work on and can use to test fit the pillars into and I will send them my dash pods to coordinate around.

For those that have on axis tweeters - what would I gain from the investment in custom pillars? More stage width? More consistent imaging? The restless tinker side of me is eager to try them but not sure if I'm just spinning my financial wheels.

I mocked up where I would see them mounted. (Please excuse the temp mounting of the tweet/mid).

Curious to your thoughts!

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Blended some photos in photoshop to try and give a sense of what I would hope them to end like. The grab handle will be deleted if MTI does the pillars, as they need to create hidden seams to bury the vinyl wrap into.
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Current dash/tweet pod:
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Edit (crude mock up) could even try a combo of the standard MTI A pillar and my dash pods. Mostly because I don't think I can fit both the Piccolo and MM3 in the MTI pillar. I think if I could slim down the MTI pillar a bit, it would be a really nice compliment to the dash pods Nick made for me.

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2017 GMC Sierra 1500 Denali
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I don’t know enough to offer an educated opinion for the on axis vs pods situation but my monkey brains are screaming on axis is the way to go. That being said how much are the mti pillars? Maybe this will help those who have experience in both for example is it worth $800 or whatever it is to move em.
 

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Just pull the tweeters out and hang them where you want and listen. A little duct tape and/or safety wire. You can even play with rotating them.
Unless you are not in a position to adjust the tune to match ?

I'll go out on a limb and say it won't be $1600 better.
 

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2021 GMC Sierra AT4
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just pull the tweeters out and hang them where you want and listen. A little duct tape and/or safety wire. You can even play with rotating them.
Unless you are not in a position to adjust the tune to match ?

I'll go out on a limb and say it won't be $1600 better.
I actually snagged a pair of the Valicar bolt on pods to try this exact situation out. I have an extra set of A pillars so I don’t mind making holes in them before they could become custom a pillars.

I’m no pro at tuning but can prob get them pretty dialed in, enough to make a judgment call if it’s an improvement or not though.
 

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The downside to aiming speakers into the windshield is the wonky midrange response you get due to the varying phase shift based on the distance from the speaker to the glass relative to each wavelength. At higher frequencies, the wavelengths are so short, that our brain is no longer able to use timing to locate sound, and instead shifts to purely intensity-based means as the frequencies increase.

What I'm saying is, if you leave the midrange aimed into the windshield, I'm not sure how much you'll actually gain. Been playing around with a pair of Unity 8s in the dash of my beater and it's definitely "different" compared to not playing into the windshield. Turning the Unitys on and off while messing with the crossover frequency, so little sound comes out at 2.5khz and above, I can't see moving just the tweeter would make a whole lot of difference. I'm interested to hear thoughts from those in the know as the "upgrade bug" has already bit and you know, always thinking about what's next...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
'm interested to hear thoughts from those in the know as the "upgrade bug" has already bit and you know, always thinking about what's next...
I think my upgrade bug is a full body systemic infection by now.
 

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I have my mids in the stock dash locations and tweets aimed at each head rest in the pillar. Sounds pretty good and I haven’t even had time do a tune. It’s a 2021 Colorado so not quite an AT4 but similar set up inside.
 

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2021 Chevrolet Silverado Trail Boss Crew Cab
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From a purely axis standpoint, the dash locations will be very close driver vs passenger. While in the pillars, the passenger side will be much more on axis than the driver's side.
 

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You are turning into a full blown crazy person. And I love it lol
 

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I would have nick build pods like he did for my truck, then you can have the tweeters and mids in the pods, they aren't as flush as your current but it works really well for imaging. Not sure how big the Piccolo are and if they would fit vs going A pilar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would have nick build pods like he did for my truck, then you can have the tweeters and mids in the pods, they aren't as flush as your current but it works really well for imaging. Not sure how big the Piccolo are and if they would fit vs going A pilar.
Him and I are gonna connect in the next couple days to make heads and tails of my ideas above I’m sure but the Piccolo is big, frame diameter is ~2.75 inch.

I can fit both in my current pods, it’s tight but they do both squeeze in there.
 

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I would have nick build pods like he did for my truck, then you can have the tweeters and mids in the pods, they aren't as flush as your current but it works really well for imaging. Not sure how big the Piccolo are and if they would fit vs going A pilar.
Holy ****, you still come around these parts? Lol
 

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I love what Rick is doing. Throwing any financial cautions to the wind. And just going for it, getting him exactly what he wants. Trial and error style. Has the best in the business doing the fab work too.
Ricks my hero. Plain and simple!!!
 

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Just pull the tweeters out and hang them where you want and listen. A little duct tape and/or safety wire. You can even play with rotating them.
Unless you are not in a position to adjust the tune to match ?

I'll go out on a limb and say it won't be $1600 better.
This is really sound advice... no pun intended :) If there is room in the mirror covers, you should test there as well... although if you choose that route you have to run speaker wires into the doors :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I love what Rick is doing. Throwing any financial cautions to the wind. And just going for it, getting him exactly what he wants. Trial and error style. Has the best in the business doing the fab work too.
Ricks my hero. Plain and simple!!!
Lol sums it up well. It's experimentation and learning that makes this fun to me. Obviously it takes a financial toll doing all of these changes in 6 months time but don't have any regrets thus far.

Currently building a "budget" system for a coworker in his 21 Sierra and having been through this process now it hopefully helped him save a ton of time (and money). He's going to have AF GS25/690, Helix P Six mk2, Alpine S-A60M, Kicker L7T 12" Sub Sealed, LLJ Input Harness and fully CLD/CCF deadened doors for ~$2000 all in. DIYMA and SQ Classifieds have been a gold mine that I wish I recognized sooner in my builds. His build should be really solid after I give it a basic tune and it was less than a 1/5 of what I have invested lol.

This is really sound advice... no pun intended :) If there is room in the mirror covers, you should test there as well... although if you choose that route you have to run speaker wires into the doors :(
The sails in the truck are a pain in the ass to remove cause the are one large piece that surrounds the entire window and I'm not too comfy pinning new wires into the door harnesses. Otherwise would def be exploring these locations. Though I think the Piccolo would be too large to fit there anyways.
 

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I'm mounting my GB10s at the highest point in the a pillar above the oh-sh*t handle. I can't go without the oh-sh*t handle...YMMV. I have experienced the weird reflections and such in the higher frequencies with the current OEM mounting location. (I have a 2022 Sierra AT4, so I'm intimately familiar with your dilemma). In effort to weed out the possible culprits, I'm switching drivers to an all Audiofrog setup (GB25s in OEM spot, GB10s on the pillars, on axis) in attempts to remove the frustrating resonances I hear in various recordings. I run Tang-Band 2" full ranges up there now...very efficient drivers. But there are times and songs that don't make me happy...so...got to change stuff up. I personally think on axis is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm mounting my GB10s at the highest point in the a pillar above the oh-sh*t handle. I can't go without the oh-sh*t handle...YMMV. I have experienced the weird reflections and such in the higher frequencies with the current OEM mounting location. (I have a 2022 Sierra AT4, so I'm intimately familiar with your dilemma). In effort to weed out the possible culprits, I'm switching drivers to an all Audiofrog setup (GB25s in OEM spot, GB10s on the pillars, on axis) in attempts to remove the frustrating resonances I hear in various recordings. I run Tang-Band 2" full ranges up there now...very efficient drivers. But there are times and songs that don't make me happy...so...got to change stuff up. I personally think on axis is the way to go.
Is your AT4 a refresh with the new interior? I am curious how folks are building in there.

I imagine the new 12 speaker or whatever Bose systems is going in there now will be fun to integrate with 🙃

To be honest - I don't have any complaints with my system as it stands today, pretty much across all genres. I'm half doing this as an learning experiment and half to try and gain small incremental improvements/consistencies. My weak point are my subs and I refuse to do a seat lift so besides building a box with more volume and maybe going to a pair of 10WMs (which in this install/vehicle is a harsh case of diminishing returns), there isn't a ton of options out there. Playing with install and tuning is my focus going forward. If I make any jump in drivers - I'll go full steam ahead into Accuton Automotive with Nick. Truthfully, I want a sedan or hatchback (stuck with company trucks for now) to play with IB and a front sub. I cannot unhear @mattkim1337 's Tesla at this point and how much more capable and blended an IB sub + front sub can be on the low end response of a system.

I have the Valicor pods coming in the mail this weekend so I will pop those in at some point and see how I like on axis tweeters.
 
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