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Discussion Starter #1
How important is the efficiency of certain inefficient full range drivers.

I am particularily interested in the aura NS3, but the low sensitivity scares me. With enough power behind it, will it achieve sound levels that can barely damage human hearing? I like to push my stereo sometimes and know it goes Loud and maintains it's clarity. If a driver like this will start to distort and go rough, i guess i'd look for something else.

Does anyone know the maximum ouput this driver will do, and if it would be good in car? (mounted on dash as well).

Also, what is a typical LOUD midrange SPL number to reference to? 100db? something like that?

Any thoughts on driver efficiency and total output would be greatly appreciated.

Others I'm considering are the Hi-VI B3N and a few Tang bands maybe.
 

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no dice in finding a 3inch midrange that's 100db.. or ever a 5 inch midrange. If you want loud just grab yourself a hlcd.
 

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100dB in the midrange isn't just loud, it's dangerous if sustained over a long period of time.

Considering that in any non-stupid installation of Aura NS3's they'll be 1.5m or less, unless you're driving a racecar with open pipes and no sound insulation you will get sufficient SPL from a reasonably-powered (25W+) pair of NS3's. If you do something that defies reason, such as mounting them at your ankles, you may find they don't get loud enough but that not be your only major sonic problem...
 

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I find 90db @1m with tones ranging from 1-5khz to be painful. Generally from 200hz and up 96db @1m is more than sufficient for listening "loud" without pain/hearing loss problems... at least not for some time.
 

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Other than this review...
http://www.zaphaudio.com/minitest/

Are there any more reviews of the NS3 & in particular the Hi-Vi B3s & B3n?

I am considering putting them on the Dash of the Saturn since I have to fix the dash cover that is craked in 3 places... I thought perhaps with some listening time that I could put a pair of these per side on the dash with tweeters in the a-pillars taking over anywhere from 6K - 10k & up depending on how high I can go with the mids...

Zaphaudio liked the Hi-Vi B3s & the B3n looks like the same in a round chassis.

Looking to play them from 200-250hz & up as high as they can go & maybe have Seas CA22's in the doors...

I have seen your review on the NS3, npdang... just fishing for a bit more...

The Hi-Vi's are very attractive @ $9 each...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Took the plunge...ordered 2 RS 225's, 2 TB 2" full range, 2 HI-Vi B3N, and 2 ND20 tweeters to play with...if crossed high enough, i think they would perform fine.

Anyone used the ND20's?

I'll compare the midrange and output of the Hi-Vi and Tang band...if the TB is good enough, then i'd prefer mounting it in the dash as oppsed to the big 3"

Zaph recommended the Hi-Vi over the NS3 for midrange duty in car from what i read in a previous post. The distortion numbers look great, and his word is good enough for me. My 871's are great, and if the B3n's are better, then great.

I'll keep you guys posted.
 

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mtnickel said:
2 ND20 tweeters to play with...if crossed high enough, i think they would perform fine.

Anyone used the ND20's?
I'd also be curious to know. I picked up a pair in my last PE order, but haven't found an application for them yet. In the same order, I ended up using those $8/ea Tangband tweeters that were on sale to replace the crappy cone tweeters that came in a pair of Technics speakers I had. A significant upgrade, actually. Anyone want before/after pictures? :D
 

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I plan on using the same PE ND20 tweets in the A-pillars... They tested very well in the upper end where I want to use them in Zaphs tweeter tests...
 

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mtnickel said:
Zaph recommended the Hi-Vi over the NS3 for midrange duty in car from what i read in a previous post. The distortion numbers look great, and his word is good enough for me. My 871's are great, and if the B3n's are better, then great.
What kind of enclosure are you installing these B3N's in? I would also like to create some dash pods for these drivers.
I made a proto pod out of aluminum foil and then a cardboard enclosure with ~0.05 ft3 (internal vol). I figure I can fiberglass these pods to the A-pillar.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Pod will be only to hold the driver....no specific volume...probably very small. But at a crossover range of 200-400hz, it "shouldn't" be too much of a problem...although i don't have much fact behind that.

Ya...i read up on the ND20...great little tweeter 3.5k+ i think. I'll probably run it from maybe 5-6k, not sure...will have to play with it.

Mark
 

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looks like others have joined the mini drivers club!

Still working on the 2 2" tang bands and the nd20 in the A pillar (tmm). figuring out how to mount 2 drivers is an issue and I kind of got sidetracked (hf 10"s in the door :D), but they'll get up there in someday...

the hivi's sound great, just too big for my dash. I'm doing zaphs single driver speaker (shaped like hearts for wall mount) for my girl for valintines day. she'll be a little bewildered at first i'm sure, but her stereo setup has separate subs so I think they'll work in nice and I wanted to build em.

my impression of the nd20 vs rs28 was the rs28 is the hands down best sounding. FR seems great though for 3.5K+ usage. with a LR4 crossover at 4k with there be a significant difference? will let you know soon when I try it... I'm hoping no.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Are you doing dual 2" tang bands per side? or do you mean the 2" and the tweeter as the 2 drivers. (ie, 2 TBs and a tweet/side or TB and tweet/side). Does one driver not have the output necessary? At 1.5m up on the dash, i'd think it "should" be okay. I always forget we are so near field in car and things do get loud pretty quick. But insane volumes are always fun too.

Can't wait to try out the Hi-Vi and Tang band 2". Thinking about getting the aura 2" and 3" as well. The Aura 3" seems to be well spoken except for it's efficiency, but i'm becoming less and less worried about that. I have around 60rms @ 8 ohms to give to the driver.

mark
 

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i'm more worred about the drivers distortion than the overall output. below 600hz or so distortion is a real issue, the louder you play it the worse it gets,so i'm hoping the 6db gain from having two will keep it in check. playing test tones through them make it pretty obvious. The awsome thing about these drivers is two of them in a 15 cubic inch box should net a qtc of .779 without stuffing :eek: so having two per side isn't really a box volume issue, its more of a how to mount them to minimize the issues of having multiple drivers. (still working on that)

the hivi's really sound sweet, but there is some issues 6K+ that need taken care of, best used with a tweeter really dispite the full range classification... I actually have them playing baffel-less sitting on my dash still because they sound really good (after some eq work) and i'm buisy with other projects. too bad my car doesn't have dash speaker locations, they really would be perfect up there...
 

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omarmipi said:
What kind of enclosure are you installing these B3N's in? I would also like to create some dash pods for these drivers.
I made a proto pod out of aluminum foil and then a cardboard enclosure with ~0.05 ft3 (internal vol). I figure I can fiberglass these pods to the A-pillar.
another issue i had with the hivi's - with a qts of almost 1 they need a rather large box for their size. IMO the choices in car are run them IB or don't worry about the back waves and basicly run them dipole into the dash (probably the best use for them - on the dash). I don't think sealed is a very good option unless you want to try a linkwitz transform circuit.

I was thinking of keeping the car somewhat stock (only modifying the A-pillars), but now that i've hacked the doors all apart to fit a 10, I'm starting to think about cutting a hole in my dash for the hivi's and making the TB's into computer speakers... hmmm.... funny, thats the only reason i'm not running rs28's in my car (i didn't want to cut the dash) and now that i'm willing to cut i'll soon have 10" subs in the doors that won't run high enough to mesh with them :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm the same way...cut door up to mount Door pod...now gonna run 8's down there. So the Dash doesn't mean much to me. Will probably mount in some sort of aimed dash pod. Will vent into the dash if possible. I don't need it to go that low though. How much does the Q affect the midrange performance around 200hz? I didn't think it was that big of an issue.

Mark
 

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a .05 cu. ft. enclosure (unstuffed net - not compensating for the volume taken by the driver) will net a qtc of 1.08. theres a 2db hump centered at around 190hz, so it will effect a 200hz crossover point. I guess its not really THAT big of a deal to deal with.... ok i guess I just thought it was to big to fit on my dash in any orientation but in it...

Get winisd pro and play around with it if you havn't already. it lets you see the effect of crossovers and such too which is awsome. full parameters can be found on zaph, or on PE under the B3N (basicly the same driver).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
ya...I checked out the program. I think you are right, and that the best bet will be venting to the dash or somthing like that.

Gonna be scary cutting up that dash tho... :eek:

Oh well. Drivers should be here on the weekend...can't wait to play around with them.

Mark
 

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geoffire said:
looks like others have joined the mini drivers club!

Still working on the 2 2" tang bands and the nd20 in the A pillar (tmm). figuring out how to mount 2 drivers is an issue and I kind of got sidetracked (hf 10"s in the door :D), but they'll get up there in someday...
How do the TB's sound vs. the Hi-Vi's?
 

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the hivi's sound a smoother and fuller... sounds a lot better 1k down, but has to be eq'd down a little above 2k, and theres a peak at 8k, but you should have crossed to a tweeter by then, unless your not too picky about your highs. They sound clean and can handle a good amount of power too before distortion creeps in.

the tangbands sound a little better 1K up, didn't find the need for any eq work really. Not quite tweeter highs, but rather good. Distortion is really an issue 600hz down, and its everywhere if you play them very loud (ear piercing loud in a car)

It you can fit the hivi's run them. But with the tangbands, you can have 600hz up coming from you a pillars or anywhere else you could think to put them, and thats a beautiful thing...
 
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