DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I drive a Denali so it's a pretty big SUV and am in the process of putting in a system. Slowly but surely it'll get there.

I am looking for SQL, and have a RF P6002 (the chrome covers), 150RMS at 4Ω, or 300RMS at 2Ω. I'm assuming 150RMS at 4Ω will be the best way to go about it.

I'm looking for SQL, with a heavy emphasis on SQ. As long as they can keep up with a 400RMS substage that's good enough. The door takes 6.5s, and the tweets will be mounted on the sails, either on or off axis. I like powerful midbass, and mellow but accurate tweets.

I'm budgeting $300 for strictly the comps/deadening. Wiring and all of that isn't part of the $300.

Fire away with any suggestions, I'll provide some more info once I get back from class.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
i'd suggest the DLS X-Program X-SB62 or DLS X-Program X-SA62
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,103 Posts
Edit - Sorry, skipped the part that said $300 for comps and damping products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
It seems like Massive Audio CK6 and RK6 speakers are popular on this forum for SQL type of application. The difference between them is that RK6s have bigger, deeper woofers. In some cars you can not mount them without making a special spacer ring. With under 3 inches mounting depth, the CK6 are easier to mount and are cheaper too, with sonicelectronix offering CK6V for something like $169 (they run out though, there are massive vendors on this forum though). Another interesting speaker is Lanzar OPTI6C.

I suggest you spend your remaining money on raammat bxt2 and ensolite. Best bang for buck vibration damping product IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thank you for whoever moved my thread. I've been off of this forum for so long I didn't even notice this sub forum where I should have posted in the first place.

Anyhow. back to my topic.

I plan to run passive
I have a RF P6002, the model with the chrome covers, that'll do 150RMS at 4Ω
I drive a 2001 Denali
I mostly listen to classic rock, rock, metal, alternative, rap, and dubstep
I'm looking for mostly SQ (with a bit of SQL)
I plan to deaden as long as the cost is realistic

My goal is 90% SQ, 10% SQL. For me, the stock Bose in my Denali is almost loud enough (before clipping), it just sounds hollow and the music has no impact or life to it. "No high, no lows, must be Bose"

My substage for now will be a 12" Type R off of 400W in a (to be built) 2.2 ft^3 box after displacement, tuned to 32-34Hz. I'll probably end up swapping it out for a SQ sub in the same box this summer.

The $300 is for strictly comps and damp(en?)ing products, unless I'm being unrealistic. I know how much comps cost, but how much/what all would I need to deaden two doors on a full size GM SUV/truck?

I've read the thread in the reviews section on the HAT Imagines, and it sounds like they're extremely highly regarded by many, touting them as the best value comps for $200 out there. Are they nut hugging or are they really that great? I wish I had a good local shop so I can listen to some comps on a board, but all they have around here is the typical big box brands like Alpine, Kenwood, Rockford, etc...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
i have massive ck6's that are scheduled to be delivered on the 30th. the new stage v version (what i ordered) have updated crossovers that are supposed to mellow out the tweeter a bit, so we'll see how that goes. i can give you some impressions when i get them if you like, but the install will be slightly different -- my doors will be sealed but not deadened and tweets in kicks on axis for now.

i never got a chance to listen to the imagines, but they are a bit more expensive than the ck6's and the ck6 stage v's supposedly have a shallower mounting depth, though i don't know how much truth there is to that since the only thing that was supposed to be changed to my knowledge between the stage iii and stage v was the crossover to tame the tweeter better.

as far as deadening, one box of raammat bxt2 should be enough to do 2 doors well enough (around $90 for the box which is 37.5 sq ft, plus shipping) so you should be able to go up to around $200 on your components, plenty to get a good set that you'll be happy with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
Note that if you're buying online, the Imagines price is $250+shipping. You could find them cheaper through dealers, who knows. I just finished installing my set of Imagine speakers today. The primary reason I bought them is because there are no crossover parts to speak of, so it easy to run them in bi-amp mode and get many benefits of an active front stage without owning an expensive head unit or DSP. With no tuning at all and the left side is not broken in at all yet, I feel like they're worth their price. Even running passive they sound good. I haven't tested yet how well they handle high SPL, but the basic SQ is basically there. After 30 minutes of listening, and setting gains, TA by ear, I can hear some little nuances I haven't heard before, very nice robust bass, with good impact that's has good punch, but is weak enough not to rattle my flimsy doors. I usually listen a few db above conversation level, just loud enough not to suffer fatigue, but loud enough if necessary to fight highway noise at 70mph. The woofer is running happily off a 60watt amplifier channel, but clearly it could take more with an appropriate crossover setting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
as far as deadening, one box of raammat bxt2 should be enough to do 2 doors well enough (around $90 for the box which is 37.5 sq ft, plus shipping) so you should be able to go up to around $200 on your components, plenty to get a good set that you'll be happy with.

10-11 sq ft was enough for one set of doors in my car. An SUV may take a little more material. With 37.5 sq ft, there is enough material to treat all doors, the rear deck, trunk, trunk lid and what not. Very good value IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
Try to throw the Type-R sub into a prefab sealed box, maybe 1.3-1.5 cu ft, and see how it goes once it's broken in. I suspect the SQ should be decent. The 8 inch version has been getting praises.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Try to throw the Type-R sub into a prefab sealed box, maybe 1.3-1.5 cu ft, and see how it goes once it's broken in. I suspect the SQ should be decent. The 8 inch version has been getting praises.
That's what it's in right now. It's decent from 40Hz-60Hz but rolls off below that severely. I think it's a combination of me being a perfectionist and the sub not being SQ oriented. It got loud for some rap and all that, but it wasn't musical to me.

I've yet to ride in a car with a stereo that can please me, albeit I've never rode in a properly done system, usually it's just kicker coaxials and a sub, so I'm hoping to finally find a stereo that makes me happy with this system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
That's what it's in right now. It's decent from 40Hz-60Hz but rolls off below that severely. I think it's a combination of me being a perfectionist and the sub not being SQ oriented. It got loud for some rap and all that, but it wasn't musical to me.
I have never heard the Type-R subwoofer so I don't know how well it sounds subjectively speaking, but the current generation of them (2010 and newer) are supposed pretty good based on specs alone. On the Alpine site, they have posted the BL and other curves which looks pretty damn flat which is supposedly good "for SQ". In any case, the roll off can be real, but it can't be fully assessed by ear. Human ears have a decreasing sensitivity in lower frequencies to extent that I think most people can't hear a 20Hz tone. So, when I play a 30Hz test tone, does it sound weaker than 40Hz because of rolloff or because my ears are less sensitive in that region? Inside of car, you can't tell which is which because of gain due to cabin. It's likely the combination of both. The vented box can help with boosting the lows though. In any case, you can certainly do better than Alpine Type-R if you want to spend more later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
It's a first generation Type R. Just not a very musical sub. It got loud, and did ok, but never blended. It lacked musicality IMO.

I've heard great things about the new 8" Type R. I'm still probably 6 months out from buying a new sub, I'm looking to get my front stage going first and I'll worry about the sub stage later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
It seems like Massive Audio CK6 and RK6 speakers are popular on this forum for SQL type of application. The difference between them is that RK6s have bigger, deeper woofers. In some cars you can not mount them without making a special spacer ring. With under 3 inches mounting depth, the CK6 are easier to mount and are cheaper too, with sonicelectronix offering CK6V for something like $169 (they run out though, there are massive vendors on this forum though). Another interesting speaker is Lanzar OPTI6C.

I suggest you spend your remaining money on raammat bxt2 and ensolite. Best bang for buck vibration damping product IMO.
I took a look at the CK6V. They look like a pretty good package. The adjustable speaker cups are nice, I'm a sucker for carbon fiber anything, and I'm a fan of silk dome tweets.

The mounting depth is only 2.5" which is good. Crutchfield says that any comp at 2.5" or deeper doesn't fit my car, but with some MDF spacers, they'd be good to go.

I don't have a local dealer to listen to them so I'm nervous to make a blind purchase without hearing them. The only decent local guy around here only has Morel and Boston Acoustics for comps, neither of which can take over 75RMS in my price range. I'd be nervous to feed them twice that, especially since I like powerful midbass up front and would cross them at 60Hz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
You'll probably enjoy that type r more once you finish your front stage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
The only decent local guy around here only has Morel and Boston Acoustics for comps, neither of which can take over 75RMS in my price range. I'd be nervous to feed them twice that, especially since I like powerful midbass up front and would cross them at 60Hz.
Check his Morel Maximos if he has some on display. Some people consider these very good as far as inexpensive entry level comps go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Check his Morel Maximos if he has some on display. Some people consider these very good as far as inexpensive entry level comps go.
The crossover doesn't offer attenuation, that's the deal breaker for me. (Same problem with HAT Imagines, no attenuation)

I'm particular about tweets and don't want to be locked into one level of output when other sets offer ±3db and 0db settings. 3 Settings is better than one IMO.

I also don't feel comfortable sending an 85RMS speaker 150RMS. I've hung around on these boards for quite awhile and lurked, so I know you can overpower if done carefully, but I don't have any real world experience with overpowering a speaker, and would rather not chance blowing up a woofer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
could always back off the gains and lower the noise floor and send a bit less power, the maximo's are fairly efficient i believe. i think i remember hearing that they weren't too heavy on the midbass though.

do you have any dealers around with polks? the db series is pretty good and relatively inexpensive, and i think the mm comp sets are around $200 (at least online) as well, which are supposed to be very nice as well. db series are also pretty shallow speakers (under 2" according to specs) so it wouldn't necessarily need a baffle either. you could also listen to jl comps, maybe the tr and c2 series, i'm sure there's a dealer around you with those up. take a listen and order online, sonic electronix has them cheap usually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I've thought about that. Using a DMM, I could always set the gain to about 80-100RMS and run some lower speaker with some headroom. I don't have to go overkill and send all 150RMS.

This weekend I'm going to go and take a listen to the local stuff and see what there is. I'm especially interested in the Morel Maximos, they've received a lot of praise here and I'm interested to hear them. I wish I had a reason to travel to northern California because then I'd have a bunch of places to do some listening, but the cost of gas and dealing with the snow on the pass isn't worth the drive.

The only place that carries Polk is Best Buy. And I haven't seen any of the better Polks there, just the entry level stuff from what I've seen.

I've spent probably 8 hours in the past two days reading reviews and posts on these boards (and using the search feature extensively so I don't ask stupid questions) about the options in my price range, and it seems like I can't go wrong, and that it's just a matter of picking a pair of speakers based on my listening preferences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
763 Posts
Wattser93,

I have a 2002 Tahoe and have been using the Massive CK6V's in my front doors for the past few months. Sub-stage is handled by 2 Polk SR 12's. Doors are very well deadened and sealed. You should definitely deaden and seal as much as possible. I have been pretty happy with them so far, but far from satisfied. The crossovers have been modified from the III version, still comparatively cheap though. Initially they seemed pretty good when tweeters were set to -3db.

Recently I pulled the cheap 16 gauge wire originally installed and replaced it with KnuKoncepts Karma SS 12 Gauge Bi-Wire Speaker Wire. WOW! This wire made a huge difference in the amount of power that the comps receive (240 watts each side). The tweeters became unbearably bright, ear piercing, and nothing else changed but the speaker wire. They were still set at -3 db. I don't have the capacity to run active yet so I picked up a set of Hertz Mille crossovers from another diyma member for next to nothing. These crossovers IMO are top notch - very high quality. I have the tweeters set to -4.5 db and they are sounding great. Others have had good luck going active with the CK6V's - the crossovers are still the weakest link.

Overall, I am happy with them now, but soon they will be going into the rear doors and I will be going active up front. From my limited experience I think they sound very good - great midbass, clean midrange and get very load. I have them crossed at 80 hrtz.

BTW, I am in Oakland. So if you find yourself in the Bay Area I can give you an audition of the Massive's.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top