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Running 5.25's and 6.5's

  • It can be a great set up since the speakers can have different responsibilities.

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • It is ok, better than just having a 6.5 mounted way up front off axis or only 5.25's.

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • They will not sound right together no matter how you arrange them.

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
5 1/4's with 6.5s *Pics*

I am custom building my own kick panels in a camaro we are restoring and we are looking to place 6.5's (component) in the front corner of the kick panel flush mounted and 5.25 components right behind them angled back with tweeters right beside them.

What is the consensous here? Is it a good plan to have 6.5's and 5.25's?I am thinking that the 6.5s flush mounted under the dash will have great midbass and the 5.25's with tweeters angled toward the driver and passenger will take care of the highs, especially when everything is tuned well.

The owner wants all kenwood excelon speakers so it will be KFC-1300Ps for the 5.25's and xp-184C for the 6.5s (7")

Ill post some pictures of the kick panels later if it helps. I have taken a lot of pics while making them and might do a write up.
 

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What does the customer want. If like most people they want the best sound and good volume then no, it's not the right way. Reading is your best bet, like these---

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/65359-basic-guide-read-before-posting.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/94500-list-usefull-diyma-threads.html

And having all matching equipment is not going to get the best of both either. It's just a delusion or vanity that matching stuff is better.
 

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6.5's are not the greatest for midbass but certainly better then most 5.25's. But the main issue here is that both those sizes have the abilities to play very much of the same frequency range. Better options would be to increase the 6.5's to 8's or downsize the 5.25's to 4's or 3's. 8's will have a better chance of being better for the midbasses and 3's and 4's can do better in the upper frequencies with less chance of beaming.
 

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there is no "doesnt really matter" vote.

I think this really depends on what high freq driver you are using and how high the 6.5" will be capable of playing. if you have tweeters that will play down to 2200hz or so, then a 6.5" will do that job. you need more output, add another one or get more power.

if size limitation is a problem, then sure. aside from abusing a speaker and not playing it in its recommended band, this is not going to be like clubbing baby seals. run each speaker correctly and it can work.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In The attached pictures is the panel.So far It is only outlined to fit so I have a blank slate. The red line on top is how far the dash extends, and the black circle in front is where the larger speaker will sit. The blue circle is the smaller speaker, angled back slightly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
We were thinking if the 6.5s only had to handle a certain range, not too high or too low 5.25s would go just a little bit higher and the tweeters higher yet. These speakers will be amped.

Here is the possible tweeter locations so far, red circle 1 or 2, though we are flexible with these.

There will be subwoofers, more than likely twelves, in the trunk. Possibly 6x9's or some sort of 8" on the rear deck.
 

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What you are describing is very vague for the DIY/SQ side of car audio. As your plans are now it would just be loud (and probably louder at certain frequencies than others due to what appears to be plans to overlap frequencies from 2 speakers).

As you have set on this path of 3 front speakers, what you have here is a fork in the road. Do you stay with your "loud" setup or do you implement a 3way setup ([3way] requires more amp channels and some form of processing). OR do you turn back now and do a standard install using 6.5" component set.

It is time to decide what do you want it to sound like - it's the first step. If you do not know this then you will need to listen to other vehicles to get a good idea or list a budget and we can help you decide how we might proceed.

Like I said earlier, I would read lots of threads. Most everything has been discussed here so finding it is the only challenge, but links above should help.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
This wont be a sound competitition car, and the excelons are quality enough for our plans, especially for the money. We are very bang for the buck oriented.

It Seems that if we had a proper set up where the 7" speakers were used sort of as small subs( vaguely midbass) , and the 5 1/4s (midrange) and tweeters were used for the sharper end of the spectrum, it would be effective at giving pleasent sound along with the capability of clean high volume and minimal distortion.

For the money we could go with a single Polk mm6501 components and im sure it would sound great.< (Plan "A.2") But we may actually have an easier time fitting the 7" up front and the 5.25 behind it due to the metal structure behind the panel.
 

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The problem I see is the air space. Will you seal the enclosure or make it an Aperiodic enclosure (look it up). I don't think it will be good to have 2 different size speakers sealed into one enclosure.

If I were you I would use the Kenwood XR-1800P and that's it. You can get them from nonauthorized vendor with a 30day warranty for $135. Newegg.com - Kenwood Excelon XR-1800P 7" 2-Way Component Speaker Sys

This will be your best chance at making it sound good without having to go way out of the way to make the 3 speaker setup work together. I know it's not as many speakers but as I said, you need to hear a kick panel install in another vehicle to know if it is enough or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I could seal the front speaker if I had to, hasnt seemed necessary yet. IF we go with a single front componenet set up I have suggested the Polk MM6501 route.
 

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The Polk are good speakers. I would suggest the JBL MS-62C, as that's what I use and really like them.

As for using a not sealed (AP) enclosure, I would be very weary of how the rear waves are directed/attenuated. Rear waves escaping in the cabin would make for some cancellation and possibly phase/TA issues is not fixed.

Once you decide on speakers, I would try to determine if they will perform well sealed. Could make up some small cabinets to test them in, something similar to the volume of air in the kick panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
(Photo1)- This is as far foreward as I can mount the speakers, and it offers the easiest fit. The con (possibly) is that they would be foreward and under the dash, which may not be a bad thing it seems. And that spot is actually not a convienent place to place your feet as its far enough foreward so that the speakers ahead of legs.

The 2nd photo (without the panel) shows the opening the speakers would be intruding into. This is the cowl of the car (1st generation camaro) which is about 6" deep and hollow as it is open at the top and also serves as a channel for the cowl to drain. you can kind of see this in the 3rd picture.

That cowl panel will be need some sound deadener and I would likely go ahead and modify the parking brake lever, which Is really not a big deal for me.

- Do the speakers need to be sealed?( I personally wouldnt think so) or will sound deadening (egg crates)behind them be sufficient, I have an idead about making an open/vented egg crate lined tube behind them which will protect them and act as proper baffle? <- or something to this effect, depending upon what I discover before then.

Depending on the exact fit of the speakers we might be able to angle them back( slightly), but after reading (& re-reading) that link about pros and cons from werewolf it looks like we wont be in too bad of shape anyway if we dont, with nylon carpet and the few reflective surfaces well deadend

The tweets would still probably be mounted on the top of the panels as shown earlier.

BTW Fabricating things is not an issue. Milling machines, lathes, presses, our shop is set up. However, cutting the car in that particular area is a NO because it is a very important part of the integrity
 

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2 reasons I mentioned sealed. It appears there is a decent amount of area behind the kick and with some fiberglass skills it looks like nearly a cubic foot (pics are not best way to determine this though), other reason is for moisture prevention. But sealed is not necessary or even necessarily better. Google search Aperiodic enclosures in cars.

Looks like you've got yourself well on the way to doing some good work.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
^ When you mention integrating a wave guide, Are you suggesting that we use it with the component tweeter which comes with the speakers or adding another tweeter? I am considering using a wave guide with the tweeter that comes with the speakers, even if we decide to place the tweeter where I marked earlier ( red circle positions 1 or 2) I can only use the bottom 1/2 of that front opening due to the ac evaporator on the passenger side. Any ability to angle the speakers is yet to be determined till they arrive.

After a lot of good reading it seems that even if the speakers are flush mounted and not aimed back, it may very well sound great since the car has been deadened and will have plush carpet, the foot wells may act as sort of a "sound Box", which could be fine tuned with basic amp and crossover settings. Again, not a sound competition( not major competitions, but maybe small town stereo stores) car, but a good quality well thought out system.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Maybe ill make a couple of wave guides on the lathe out of mdf (or a hardwood), it looks like a worth while endeavor. Im sure i can at least fit the tweeters behind em.
 
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