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Discussion Starter #1
I am going to post a video first. I have had trouble loading a build log for some reason and I have around 200 pics to share. I know what you're thinking. That's noobtastic.lol
I had been out of car audio for about 15 yrs. I started watching videos on YT around christmas and I got bit by the bug again. hardcore...hahaha
After spending a few months reading I started buying components and assembling a dream system with a focus on my idea of sound quality; a term I believe which is highly subjective. What I was looking for is a wide stage, a strong center focus and depth and accurate reproduction without listening fatigue.(my idea of sq) The ability to transition between music was important as well.
Here is what I have done so far
Big 3 (Kicker 0 Ga)
HU Clarion vz409
EQ Clarion eqs746
Dual 6 1/2" Alpine speakers in each kick panel (Fiberglass, mdf, exp. foam)
Tweeters mouted in dash (Temp)
10" Goldwood midbass in each door (fiberglass, mdf, audiotechnix, acoustical foam, exp foam)
2 18" Dayton DCS-450's Infinite baffle. Baffle is 2 1/4" at it's thinnest spot
Trunk was sanded, primed, coated with two layers of cascade vblock. Leaks were sealed with exp. foam, resin, and matte. The spare tire well has been filled with mdf, foam, and exp.foam in alternating layers up to the new subfloor. Which consists of a 2 piece layer of 3/4" mdf with a jut underlayment. attached to the trunk A second layer of reinforcement ribs were dropped into the trunk to deaden it further. They measure 16x40 and are 1 1/4 thick. Exp. foam was used to seal and create a level transition to the sides of the trunk walls.
Once I trim it I will cover the entire trunk in three layers of matte and resin. OVERKILL for sure.

Now that is out of the way here is a video of my stereo as it sits. It is still under construction. The amprack and the trunk is not finished. I also need to install my 1/3 octave eq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Bt1q6fM3s
One of my favorite songs. I've worked hard on it so don't bash me too hard guys. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok, now that it worked time to put up some pics to bring everyone up to speed.
Well start at the beginning. Here is a floor diagram, lol

HU


Doors...





 

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That's some pretty impressive sound, considering the recording device. Not to mention, very involved work. Kudos, man!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That's some pretty impressive sound, considering the recording device. Not to mention, very involved work. Kudos, man!!
Thx. All of my videos are recorded with my 8gig ipod. My fuji and my touch phone have horrible sound. This is the best out of the 3.
Ummmm yeah. 18's AND 10's for midbass. I'm IN!!!
Thx buddy. I love cone area over wattage. I have tons of headroom now.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
woah.....!!.... got Vas!
Thanks for sharing!
Haha. The trunk is well over 20 cubes.

Wow... just wow. Intense!
Thx buddy

verah naahsss...

dual midrange in the kicks is a bold move..
The jury is still out. They are quite large, great sound though. 215hz @12db I may be moving a pair of them up to the dash and removing the kicks all together. Need to go active and have t/a. The new setup will have a 4" in the A pillars with a 6" almost on axis (depending on listening testing) with a pair of dayton PT2C-8 sitting in the center of the dash at the windshield fwd of the defroster vent. The alpine silk domes are too bright and too peaky. These daton planars are 6" tall and 3" wide. (Mounted horizontally) This will create a great center channel and help widen the stage. I love surface radiating area.
 

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10" Midbass = sweet
18" IB subs = sweet
dual 6.5" midranges in kicks...eehhhhhhhh
flooded trunk with expanding foam...you lost me -

From my experience, the trunk floor rarely needs excessive sound deadening. With an IB setup, I can't see it needing any. There's almost zero chance of any resonance in the trunk floor effecting the subwoofers. Really all that you need to be sure of is that A) your baffle is sealed off sufficiently between the cabin and the trunk, and B) that there is nothing in the trunk that will rattle and can be heard from outside. 8" thick of expanding foam just seems like a silly waste. Not that what you've done will cause any harm, other than extra weight and wasted effort for pretty much no return.

Did you try the subwoofers before you bought the entire great stuff suply at Home Depot? What made you think that you had to go to that extreme and that it would result in any difference in sound?

I'm just curious what would drive a person to do something like that, I'm not trying to be offensive here, but what you have done defies logic, and probably cost more than if you had used the conventional methods from Sound Deadener Showdown.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
10" Midbass = sweet
18" IB subs = sweet
dual 6.5" midranges in kicks...eehhhhhhhh
flooded trunk with expanding foam...you lost me -

From my experience, the trunk floor rarely needs excessive sound deadening. With an IB setup, I can't see it needing any. There's almost zero chance of any resonance in the trunk floor effecting the subwoofers. Really all that you need to be sure of is that A) your baffle is sealed off sufficiently between the cabin and the trunk, and B) that there is nothing in the trunk that will rattle and can be heard from outside. 8" thick of expanding foam just seems like a silly waste. Not that what you've done will cause any harm, other than extra weight and wasted effort for pretty much no return.

Did you try the subwoofers before you bought the entire great stuff suply at Home Depot? What made you think that you had to go to that extreme and that it would result in any difference in sound?

I'm just curious what would drive a person to do something like that, I'm not trying to be offensive here, but what you have done defies logic, and probably cost more than if you had used the conventional methods from Sound Deadener Showdown.
Okay...I am getting a lot of heat for my trunk. I used mdf and exp. foam to deaden it. Not what everyone would do I know. It is NOT finished by the way. Please wait till I get it done before you say anything lol. I did try the subs in the trunk before I put the new floor down. It sounded like a rattle can. There is 2 layers of mdf in there now. It is dead. I have no problems with the trunk now. Just the liscense plate and a few exterior trim pieces. A little ensolite here and there should fix that.
I have decided to keep the tens in the doors and I will be upgrading the fronstage. We are going to start by getting rid of the tweeters and replace them with a pair of dayton PT2C-8 planars. These will be installed in the "A" pillar.

I was going to keep the Alpines in the kicks but as you said eehhhhhhh. There are alot of things I like about having multiple midrange. The issues arise at volume where I begin to hear a coupling or colorization from two large drivers trying to play as one. I have a strong center but no stereo effect, depth is non existant, and the stage is mid steering wheel. Most likely from diffraction and other things I can't explain. lol
With that in mind I can segway into the drivers I am going to purchase. I have spent a few weeks looking for a driver that was larger and had a higher sensitivity. I used two 6.5's in the kicks is to hold it's own with the midbass and bass. Our finalist is the Silver Flute W20RC38-04 ohm. It is an 8" driver.


pretty isn't it. Badgless drivers FTW. I know what you're thinking. An 8" as a mid? Bet your sweet ass. I am in the cone area over wattage buisness. lol They are 93db efficient and should match up to the dayton tweets rather nice. They will be going back into the kick and we will be doing some critical listening to decide final positioning.
Ok back to the trunk. I have decided to add a 3rd 18" sub. I have 57" of width at the rear seats and I mean to use every inch. Before you guys get excited remember that it will still be infinite baffle. There will be no change in wattage and they will be wired 4ohms. With that said they will see 240 watts total for the 3. The new baffle should be much easier to build as it will be a flat span from side to side.
Why put a third sub in? I am totally and completely insane. I want to see what I can get away with considering I am using 240 watts. I use to worry about too much output until I found my bass knob works. All things considered I want more. I don't like the idea of throwing power at a problem. It's more fun to just add another driver. I should mention it isn't cheaper; believe it or not.
The stereo will continue to change until I am satisfied. I may end up sealing them up and feeding them some D class power but I don't think that will be neccessary when I add the third driver. I still need that bone crushing bass. It's not some novelty. It adds a depth to music and creates a visceral feeling that I can't describe; or live without.
I appreciate the continued comments even if it's about my unconventional build ideas. I will have another big update on the first with a start of the new baffle build.
 

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How do you plan on having a final impedance of 4 ohms with three 4 ohm subs?

I admire your gusto, but I think you are misguided. With even a tiny bit of research you'd know that the 8's and planars aren't a great idea. Do you really have a half a cubic foot in your kick panels for 8" mids? Are you venting into the unibody or front fenders?

With a 10 inch midbass, I don't see a reason for your midrange to be over 6.5". If you are on the efficiency train, you should be looking at pro-audio midranges. They will tear your head off with very little power. I'm willing to bet that the 93 db efficiency on those Silver Flutes is at 2.83V/1m and not 1w/1m which can be misleading if you are not comparing on an apples to apples basis.

I'm just trying to be helpful here, and I know you think you're onto something here, but we've seen people do things like this before. There's a lot of wisdom on here, and while I think the 18's and 10's are fun, I also think you probably need a set of pro audio midranges and horns to get where you want. Those planars are NOT the right tweeter...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
How do you plan on having a final impedance of 4 ohms with three 4 ohm subs?

I admire your gusto, but I think you are misguided. With even a tiny bit of research you'd know that the 8's and planars aren't a great idea. Do you really have a half a cubic foot in your kick panels for 8" mids? Are you venting into the unibody or front fenders?

With a 10 inch midbass, I don't see a reason for your midrange to be over 6.5". If you are on the efficiency train, you should be looking at pro-audio midranges. They will tear your head off with very little power. I'm willing to bet that the 93 db efficiency on those Silver Flutes is at 2.83V/1m and not 1w/1m which can be misleading if you are not comparing on an apples to apples basis.

I'm just trying to be helpful here, and I know you think you're onto something here, but we've seen people do things like this before. There's a lot of wisdom on here, and while I think the 18's and 10's are fun, I also think you probably need a set of pro audio midranges and horns to get where you want. Those planars are NOT the right tweeter...
I can see now that the idea for the subs won't work with my current amplifier. A class d can solve this problem. Did I mention I am a noob. If you are right about it being 2.83V/1m the sensitivity would be closer to 90-91 db right? just curious
I have wanted to do horns but the bodies are terribly expensive. I'm not saying that I don't want to spend the money, I was just looking for a high sens. tweet and mid combo alternative.
I am committed to creating a serious stereo and I will take my licks to help me get there. I appreciate the continued help and criticism.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The car has been gutted for a major rebuild. Including my foam covered trunk which didn't take as long to remove it as I thought. Yes it was a bad idea, but it did make the trunk quiet. In any case i'm past that b.s. and thought I would post again. I've had a couple setups but the midrange was always lacking because I like low power. So I thought why not look for the same power ratings but higher sensitivity.
With that I have decided to take the car another route. The new setup will have seven speakers total. I plan on keeping the door panels I built (see above pictures)
and found a eminence 10" that will go with the horns I want to buy.
The plan is to get a pair of ID mini's and get a selenium 9500 cd for each. Why go so overboard on the frontstage. well... this is why.
Before I post these pics I realize a wall makes me a heretic but I'm okay with that. Also this is my first wall and I am a botany major so take it easy on my lack of woodworking skills.
Start with the wiring upgrade first. Big 3 done. 2nd run of the big 0 in the car.




My plan is to run the horns on the onyx4.60 which should be about 30 watts. More than enough. I planned on bridging the rear two channels on either 4 channel for 10" in the doors.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
3 18" Sub wall in Malibu. slow build...

Onto the wall. I tried to do as much research as I could on building a wall. The first plan was to build a box outside the car but it would've never gotten back inside. Soo, I decided to build it in the car. It has been a learning experience for sure...



That is one of my 18" for reference.
As you can see there are a few filler pieces that need to be installed yet. There are two additional pieces of mdf that will be attached to the top of the box. Once this is done I can use some modeling clay to fill in the small gaps then glass over the top of it. Still alot of work to do. I still have to order a few things yet. Batteries (d3400's, amp for subs, and alternator.
I'll be using a kicker 1/3 octave for the horns in case anyone is curious and my amps have 24/db slopes so I'll end up crossing them around a 1000hz.
More updates in a couple weeks.
 

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Love the 2x4 bracing. Gotta do what cha gotta do I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Love the 2x4 bracing. Gotta do what cha gotta do I guess.
The 2x4's are for the roof and the baffle. I ran the single pieces flush so they could attach to the baffle. The top 2x4 has an instep so with the thickness of the baffle I have enough room for the basket of the 3rd 18".There will be a secondary piece of mdf glued and screwed to the side pieces and then I will get a couple lengths of threaded rod and attach that to the sides and the baffle.
Like I said, long way before I am done.
Just curious, what made you consider a wall instead of your old IB setup?
It was a one hit wonder. I never really could get it to sound the way I wanted. The subs really weren't really designed for that alignment so I guess that's on me. lol They should work well in this application though.
I guess I just wanted more of a demo car and something that was louder than I am willing to listen to.
 

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They probably needed more airspace. On mine I'm adding an ap vent to the outside world. By pulling the weatherstripping off of the trunk lid and creating a leak it souinds more musical and flat, overall better sound quality. Obviously I can't leave a leak via the weather stripping so I'm making a controlled leak via ap vent. Did you try venting to atmosphere with the IB setup?

I really liked your IB setup and the overall setup. The wall is the extreme other end as far as space goes. Looking forward to the results.
 
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