This right here was a dead give away. My GB10s are rated 100w but they are no where near 100w they get loud and but no where near make "your ears bleed"
8+ Blown Tweets in 10 Months??? WHY?
I need ideas on what might be the cause of this issue my buddy is having with his system I’ve installed and continue to upgrade as he get new equipment. 2015 Infinity Q50, originally I installed an Alpine dsp along with a active 3 way front system, 6 channel Crecendo amp, real fill and subs. First speakers to go were both Morel 2.5” dome mids that were maybe 6 months old, going within a couple days of each other. A Steg tweet, both Focal Flax tweets were toast within a month, a high end set of Pioneer tweeters lasted less than a month, and a couple months ago he finally took my advise and got the Hertz Mille Legend ML280.3 tweeter ML700.3 3” and ML1800.3 7” setup and let me move the tweeters from behind the small plastic factory grills on the doors to a-pillar pods. I had installed the same setup a couple of times in other cars and with those 3” and tweeters in the pillars and dash locations they can nearly make your ears bleed without breaking a sweat. After the first 2 or 3 sets blew, He had me add a set of 2.2k caps to the tweeters as an extra backup to the 2k setting on the amp and 2.5k setting on the DSP. I also swapped the Crecendo 6 channel out for the Audio Control 6 channel and ran dedicated wires straight from the amp to the speakers, trying to eliminate any possible causes. Last week we swapped out the Alpine DSP for a Helix 10 channel as one of the RCA jacks on the Alpine was noisy and required a ground to be soldered on to eliminate it. Anyway, he called yesterday and one of the Hertz tweeters wasn’t working, and sure enough I checked today and it’s completely dead. He doesn’t over cook his system and knows it’s limits so I don’t think it’s him and the volume knob causing it. I originally thought that because the stock grills had such small holes and not many of them that the tweeters were actually getting overworked and we just weren’t getting enough sound past the grills, and every tweet prior to today had a power rating of 25 to maybe 40 watts RMS, and the combination of the much bigger and beefier Legend tweeter in a pod right in your face with probably double the power handling had me convinced it wouldn’t happen again. I know tweeter power rating are wushy washy, but I even moved the mid/tweet crossover point to 4k when I installed the Helix DSP to compare the sound. Any ideas of what might be causing this rapidly growing graveyard of tweeters??? TIA
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Good eye/catch/reading. I just can't imagine someone enjoying listening that loud. If the vehicle is used for doors open SPL shows, okay, but not sitting inside for any SQ purposes.This right here was a dead give away. My GB10s are rated 100w but they are no where near 100w they get loud and but no where near make "your ears bleed"
Right? But I think the dude is running big sub power so maybe he needs it to keep up. 🤷🏽♂️
Interested to see how you get on.
Maybe he's running 4k to his subs?Right? But I think the dude is running big sub power so maybe he needs it to keep up. 🤷🏽♂️
I just can’t see how this is possibly anything other than a set up or tuning issue.
Not quite. But they are ported.... 😃Maybe he's running 4k to his subs?
Sub amp is a DS18 KO3 3k running either a single ported Ampere Audio Neo 12”, a ported B2 Rampage 12”, 3 B2 Audio Rampage 8”’s ported or his new as of last week Rockford T2 13”
Since you're running caps (which is good) which eliminates the chance that low frequencies are somehow hitting the tweets the only option is that the tweeters are getting too much power. Since you've got a lot more amplifier power than what tweeters should be using try setting gains for midbass drivers and then level matching the other drivers using an octave of pink noise in their pass band or some other method to ensure you aren't over driving them.
I hate when people say literally. But....regardless of how well you think you installed these tweeters, and set the gains and crossovers, they are blowing for 1 reason, too much heat on the voice coil. Raise the XO point, increase the slope, and turn the gain down.
This is literally the only thing that "blows" voice coil.
Either the tweeters are too loud. Too much heat.
Or they are crossed over too low.
That's it.
Too hot or it moves too much.
Who's remembers koontz
Just my 2 cents after blowing a few tweeters of my own:
Hope this helps.
- Verify/set the XOver between 3k and 4k LR-24
- Tweeter 1 popped instantly
- Double check the RCA cables are seated correctly and not loose/bouncing in the terminal
- Tweeter 2 started rattling over time before blowing
- Turn amp gains down a little bit
- Tweeter 3 went up in smoke
- Turn head unit volume down below clipping level
- Tweeter 4 + subwoofer blown at the same time
Hope this helps.
Ok I got back over to look at the car last night so I could once again check the crossover points and gain levels that somehow I had done successfully without issue for 30 years but obviously I either forgot how or maybe Ithe first 1000 times I just got lucky. The HP setting on the amp outputs was set at 3300hz, and the DSP setting was at just over 3600hz, 24db slope linkwitz. Amp gains were right at 1/4 for the tweeters and 3”just over half for the 7” channels. I copied this from Hertz “power rating, 180W Peak (Hi-Pass filtered @ 1,8kHz - 12dB Oct.) which is why I felt going twice as high as the 1.8k with double the slope should be plenty safe, but apparently combining those settings with the amp being pegged at 25% I need to put my tools away forever and never install tweeters again…. When I put the scope on it I wasn’t seeing any signs of clipping/ distortion until close to 75% on the gain setting. I’m such an idiot for not thinking the power might be an issue, but right around the time I installed the majority of the stuff, or a bit after I remember a thread where an endless number of people were commenting on how they would give their left nut, if not both to have the Brax MX4 amp powering their 2 way active front setups, and I even questioned some that were saying how it’s was common for people to use that big 300 x 4 amp with Focal Utopia tweets and 6.5” mids, and while I was the only person that seemed to think using 300 watt rated channels to power 20 watt tweeters was even slightly overkill, every other comment was another person offering up their life savings plus their wives and kids to own or just spend an hour with that setup. Lol. And because my buddy who owns the car has a 3k sub amp and has several different subs/enclosures that have spent time in the car I guess it’s obvious to some people here what the problem is…
I thought about that too, i think its not him, but someone with a similar mindset.Who's remembers koontz
neither this vehicle or the one I did before that I was taking about get played at unusually high volumes but because they have the ability to play higher than the average SQ fan would need points to the problem I guess? Or it’s the fact the dude likes ported boxes and has a big sub amp? I’m learning new stuff all the timeGood eye/catch/reading. I just can't imagine someone enjoying listening that loud. If the vehicle is used for doors open SPL shows, okay, but not sitting inside for any SQ purposes.
Gain knob doesn't work that way. It's not a volume control. Should have used the DMM method with the oscilloscope for the tweeter. Then still turned it down several db at the DSP. Aftert that play music at "full tilt" volume then either turn it up or down at the DSP depending on the desired output. Tweeters don't need alot of power. Then if you are tunning to a curve they'll use way less.Amp gains were right at 1/4 for the tweeters and 3”just over half for the 7” channels. I copied this from Hertz “power rating, 180W Peak (Hi-Pass filtered @ 1,8kHz - 12dB Oct.) which is why I felt going twice as high as the 1.8k with double the slope should be plenty safe, but apparently combining those settings with the amp being pegged at 25% I need to put my tools away forever and never install tweeters again….
You must have missed the part where I checked them with a scope at the setting they were at, about 1/4 up from minimum, and the first time any signs of distortion or clipping showed up was at or a little above 3/4 to max level. I have set up every system that I’ve done for myself or someone else the same way unless the customer specifically wants something set different, but I normally set them back far enough that the volume can be maxed out with useable sq still. Some guys like to get to 75%, I’ve done several for a guy who I know already that he wants his to be maxed at 1/2 volume. He is the one I’ve been trying for 10 years to understand that lower settings sounds better and cranking up the gains don’t add power.Gain knob doesn't work that way. It's not a volume control. Should have used the DMM method with the oscilloscope for the tweeter. Then still turned it down several db at the DSP. Aftert that play music at "full tilt" volume then either turn it up or down at the DSP depending on the desired output. Tweeters don't need alot of power. Then if you are tunning to a curve they'll use way less.
But cranking the gains does add power...You must have missed the part where I checked them with a scope at the setting they were at, about 1/4 up from minimum, and the first time any signs of distortion or clipping showed up was at or a little above 3/4 to max level. I have set up every system that I’ve done for myself or someone else the same way unless the customer specifically wants something set different, but I normally set them back far enough that the volume can be maxed out with useable sq still. Some guys like to get to 75%, I’ve done several for a guy who I know already that he wants his to be maxed at 1/2 volume. He is the one I’ve been trying for 10 years to understand that lower settings sounds better and cranking up the gains don’t add power.
Once the gain reaches the amps max output it will clip and then add a bunch more average power, clipped power is worse than clean power and can toast a speaker, especially a tweeter very quickly.
I don't personally recommend using any electronic tools to set gains, and especially tweeters. In most setups I've ever run the tweeters are barely up from the minimum setting to match the output of the rest of the speakers, just turn them up a tiny bit at a time until they are balanced, which shouldn't take much.
I'll go ahead and say it again. Gain knob is not a volume knob. You can have it clipping and maxed out at minimum if enough input voltage is applied. You obviously did something wrong and continue to do so every time a tweeter is poped.You must have missed the part where I checked them with a scope at the setting they were at, about 1/4 up from minimum, and the first time any signs of distortion or clipping showed up was at or a little above 3/4 to max level. I have set up every system that I’ve done for myself or someone else the same way unless the customer specifically wants something set different, but I normally set them back far enough that the volume can be maxed out with useable sq still. Some guys like to get to 75%, I’ve done several for a guy who I know already that he wants his to be maxed at 1/2 volume. He is the one I’ve been trying for 10 years to understand that lower settings sounds better and cranking up the gains don’t add power.
Cranking the gain does add power, along with a clipped signal. You came here asking why, and we have told you. If you don't want to belive it, it's on you.
Don't listen to these guys (They clearly aren’t trying to help you). Pop a couple sets of these in and report back. 4 per pillar should give your client the highs he’s after.You must have missed the part where I checked them with a scope at the setting they were at, about 1/4 up from minimum, and the first time any signs of distortion or clipping showed up was at or a little above 3/4 to max level. I have set up every system that I’ve done for myself or someone else the same way unless the customer specifically wants something set different, but I normally set them back far enough that the volume can be maxed out with useable sq still. Some guys like to get to 75%, I’ve done several for a guy who I know already that he wants his to be maxed at 1/2 volume. He is the one I’ve been trying for 10 years to understand that lower settings sounds better and cranking up the gains don’t add power.
VX35-ST | 3.5" Titanium Bullet Super Tweeters - Pair
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If you are interested in trying to get it to stop: use a multi meter at the output of the amp to make sure the output voltage of a 0db tone is low enough the amp CANT overdrive the tweeter. When you set the gain using an (edit) oscilloscope what was the output voltage of the tone you were using? Was it playing at 0db? And what frequency was that at?You must have missed the part where I checked them with a scope at the setting they were at, about 1/4 up from minimum, and the first time any signs of distortion or clipping showed up was at or a little above 3/4 to max level. I have set up every system that I’ve done for myself or someone else the same way unless the customer specifically wants something set different, but I normally set them back far enough that the volume can be maxed out with useable sq still. Some guys like to get to 75%, I’ve done several for a guy who I know already that he wants his to be maxed at 1/2 volume. He is the one I’ve been trying for 10 years to understand that lower settings sounds better and cranking up the gains don’t add power.
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