Add a lithium cell or a high output alternator?

6495 Views 56 Replies 14 Participants Last post by ecobass, 3 mo ago

DasFriek

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago

My car/audio electrical is this:
180amp alt and 2x large gel cell AGM’s and when running my lights dont flicker and it will droop too 0v-.4v by all the meters from my cars computer and a bass control that reads it.
I just installed two amps that are twice the power my old ones had. And yes everything possible is fused. So know my electrical system needs a boost.

Buy what i read i have several solutions.
A new alternator, Which is a pita as ill have to pay to get it done.
Add a JP40 lithium cell thats all self contained with a remote and im rather sure an isolator.

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Buy a bigger lithium cell from Amazon as the are on sale.

with a dual lithium cell battery isolator.

lastly and its the easy way but mot the best imo is add another 12v agm Battery.

With all that info what do you suggest?

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ItsonlyaHONDA

· #21 · 6 mo ago

DasFriek said:
Im so confused i could **** the alphabet!
Im already $900 deep in 2x agm cells, and i dont want to screw with that mad octopus.

I've seen the mad octopus you have in your trunk, you already know how I feel about that. Lol if your not having issues now, just see if you have issues after you put them other amps in. Then proceed.

Reactions: 2

vactor

· #22 · 6 mo ago

DasFriek said:
My car/audio electrical is this:
180amp alt and 2x large gel cell AGM’s and when running my lights dont flicker and it will droop too 0v-.4v by all the meters from my cars computer and a bass control that reads it.
I just installed two amps that are twice the power my old ones had. And yes everything possible is fused. So know my electrical system needs a boost.

Buy what i read i have several solutions.
A new alternator, Which is a pita as ill have to pay to get it done.
Add a JP40 lithium cell thats all self contained with a remote and im rather sure an isolator.

DOWN4SOUND | D4S JP40 - 12V Lithium Car Audio Battery ( 6000 - 12000W )

Buy Car Audio Online the real #1 Source, Fast Free Shipping, EZ Financing, Price Match Guarantee, freebies in every order, Shop Now!

www.down4soundshop.com

Buy a bigger lithium cell from Amazon as the are on sale.

Amazon.com
with a dual lithium cell battery isolator.

lastly and its the easy way but mot the best imo is add another 12v agm Battery.

With all that info what do you suggest?

alternator provides electricity when the car is running. batteries provide electricity when the engine is not running. alternator also charges batteries whil car is running.

Reactions: 2

winkychevelle

· #23 · 6 mo ago

ItsonlyaHONDA said:
Yes used both RSV and the PWR, And it works perfectly for me. The DIY option would have been way cheaper but I don't have time for that. Plus I was scared of fvcking up. I also didn't want to play tetris in my trunk with cells.

It's been about a year now, and no issues what so ever. They are small and easy to install. But expensive. So I paid for convenience and ill do it again. I tested resting voltages before installing and everything checked out for me. My car charges in the 13s during the day and when the lights are on it stays at 14.4 so I'm not worried about degrading the battery. It works so 🤷🏽‍♂️

Your Honda is one of few vehicles that lines up nearly perfect for the titan8 5s batts. My truck cruises at 14.4 all day and can go as high as 15.5v when its cold or the computer thinks it needs to desulfate the agm cells. Which 15.5v would harm the titan8 5s setup. Even though I'm 99% of the time at 14.4.

I run a bypassed control system now so I charge wherever I decide 14.8v constant right now with my agms.

Only reason I haven't went to lithium yself is the fact that my factory alt is quite big and I have dual batts factory. I can support 300amp draw easily.

That and I think I would need quite a bit of lithium to crank my diesel motor.

Reactions: 1

winkychevelle

· #24 · 6 mo ago

vactor said:
alternator provides electricity when the car is running. batteries provide electricity when the engine is not running. alternator also charges batteries whil car is running.

That goes out of the window with lithium and transient music. Lithium reacts so much faster and is so much more power dense. You can run way more power on much less lithium than agm. The alt doesn't even have to be very big since the fade in and fade out time between songs is usually enough to top lithium right back up

Reactions: 1

ItsonlyaHONDA

· #25 · 6 mo ago

winkychevelle said:
Your Honda is one of few vehicles that lines up nearly perfect for the titan8 5s batts. My truck cruises at 14.4 all day and can go as high as 15.5v when its cold or the computer thinks it needs to desulfate the agm cells. Which 15.5v would harm the titan8 5s setup. Even though I'm 99% of the time at 14.4.

I run a bypassed control system now so I charge wherever I decide 14.8v constant right now with my agms.

Only reason I haven't went to lithium yself is the fact that my factory alt is quite big and I have dual batts factory. I can support 300amp draw easily.

That and I think I would need quite a bit of lithium to crank my diesel motor.

Wow. 15.5, my max is 14.4 even on cold mornings. Yea that would harm the Titan. I have a volt meter up front to keep an eye on things and a Bluetooth Voltmeter at the lithiums. I use to test them out when I first put them in. I would blast full tilt on my way home from a night shift just to see how low I could drop them. But they barely flinched. Once in a while I'll log on to the app just to check if there is any abnormalities. It logs a trend of the voltage. But so far so good. They are expensive though but it was the best option for me and the Honda.

winkychevelle

· #26 · 6 mo ago

ItsonlyaHONDA said:
Wow. 15.5, my max is 14.4 even on cold mornings. Yea that would harm the Titan. I have a volt meter up front to keep an eye on things and a Bluetooth Voltmeter at the lithiums. I use to test them out when I first put them in. I would blast full tilt on my way home from a night shift just to see how low I could drop them. But they barely flinched. Once in a while I'll log on to the app just to check if there is any abnormalities. It logs a trend of the voltage. But so far so good. They are expensive though but it was the best option for me and the Honda.

If they weren't so expensive I would try them for my truck but I'd be in for more money than it would likely be worth. A fresh alt will likely come first. Especially since I'm doing the serpentine belt and pullies really soon. Mechman makes a 400amp alt for my truck but I think I'll likely just stick with a 270 or 320. Anything bigger and you start playing with belt slippage.

Reactions: 1

vactor

· #27 · 6 mo ago

winkychevelle said:
That goes out of the window with lithium and transient music. Lithium reacts so much faster and is so much more power dense. You can run way more power on much less lithium than agm. The alt doesn't even have to be very big since the fade in and fade out time between songs is usually enough to top lithium right back up

v = i*r
lithium batteries are generally at 12.6 volts while alternators usually put out over 13 volts. this is necessary so the alternator can charge the battery. when the car is running, the alternator voltage is greater than the battery voltage. the best upgrade for a running car regarding electrical output is upgrading the alternator.

Reactions: 1

teh_squirrel

· #28 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

I upgraded the alternator to singer's 290a (he rates them conservatively), d3400 up front, and an sb500 500 farad out back that is hooked up to everything. It seems to be working well so far but the voltage drops over a few days I think I have a parasitic drain somewhere. The mmats amp is pretty efficient but my 3k bass amp uses some juice when I pound it. I need to set up a volt meter on a switch or something in the car.

winkychevelle

· #29 · 6 mo ago

vactor said:
v = i*r
lithium batteries are generally at 12.6 volts while alternators usually put out over 13 volts. this is necessary so the alternator can charge the battery. when the car is running, the alternator voltage is greater than the battery voltage. the best upgrade for a running car regarding electrical output is upgrading the alternator.

Idk what lithium you have that rest at 12.6v but maybe throw them away and get something useful. Even 4s1p headways rest at 13.6v

if I have my alt set at 15v and I'm using 6s lto banks, than the banks will supply power immediately no voltage drop at all. Because the battery is always in a point of ,ready to charge, and not in the full charged float voltage. You only get drop when you are charging in the float voltages. At 15.8v the lithium is fully charged and will hold that voltage until it's depleted. You don't need to keep a lithium 100% topped off like agm. It's better for the battery but less damaging than overcharging

If you have ever looked at a lithium drain test you will notice that they hold voltage for a long time before immediately dropping severely unlike agms which drop voltage linearly.

Again I get ohms law and ohms law stays true but battery drain curves throw that argument out the window when you aren't dropping voltage. When voltage is dropping .2v instead of 2v it's vastly different

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Reactions: 3

DasFriek

Discussion Starter · #30 · 6 mo ago

The lithium is just another battery no matter what its made from.
A capacitor bank would help,but then i have to wrangle the octopus over to it and then link back to my agm’s. And honestly im running out of room back there until spring when i do my final revision and finish.
Ebay has many good cap superbanks that arent that expensive and many more farads. So i can add that later if need be. DFS are way too expensive on these as 500f is $450

winkychevelle

· #31 · 6 mo ago

DasFriek said:
The lithium is just another battery no matter what its made from.
A capacitor bank would help,but then i have to wrangle the octopus over to it and then link back to my agm’s. And honestly im running out of room back there until spring when i do my final revision and finish.
Ebay has many good cap superbanks that arent that expensive and many more farads. So i can add that later if need be. DFS are way too expensive on these as 500f is $450

Maxwell and ioxus are the 2 most common ultracap brands skelcap is another though they are hard to find

DasFriek

Discussion Starter · #32 · 6 mo ago

ItsonlyaHONDA said:
I've seen the mad octopus you have in your trunk, you already know how I feel about that. Lol if your not having issues now, just see if you have issues after you put them other amps in. Then proceed.

They are installed for now,But just not tuned with my scope. So i set it too 66% on the gain. Ive yet to see a clipping light also. I think Steve Meade showed an easy way to set your gains useing a clipping meter. But it will be done asap, I just put them in 2 days ago. The differances on the EvL’s was night and day. They hit with authority now and with a deeper tone. I turned my subsonic off and glad i did as i tried playing some rap “riding dirty” by Chamillionair and it didnt take long for the cone to bottom out. These amps are no jokes,as to why i got the thick box.
I just hope i get SQ out of these Avatars.

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I need to get some thin deadning for lining it. I feel it smooths out the bass.
I didnt test my charging systems droop other than idle and it was holding up. And honestly i wont be pushing my subs more than what i did playing that song.

My Skar armored 8” box showed up and i lined it up and took the cheap terminal out and installed a SMD terminal with quick knobs to remove it quickly and add Rhodium coated copper forked terminal with a full lenght run to the amp with ferrels. It sounds very good compared to my makeshift box. My passengers now have 6” of leg room now lol

I stopped posting in that thread as it was just a build thread at that point. I have a HD birch box from DFS coming to house the monster Avatar’s

So yeh im getting there, Im gonna do more testing and see how my current system holds up.
Then order what i think is needed. Im amazed my 180amp alternator is doing so well, but my next test is to take it as it is and drive at night and check for dimming lights.

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DasFriek

Discussion Starter · #33 · 6 mo ago

winkychevelle said:
Maxwell and ioxus are the 2 most common ultracap brands skelcap is another though they are hard to find

this is a new one but you can get B stock for $134

www.ebay.com

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can be real cheap but

ItsonlyaHONDA

· #34 · 6 mo ago

If your not having issues I vote for leave it be. But I beefy alternator won't be a bad idea.

Reactions: 1

DasFriek

Discussion Starter · #35 · 6 mo ago

im full of other questions im sure ill never find so look for the thread here soon.

Selkec

· #36 · 6 mo ago

winkychevelle said:
Idk what lithium you have that rest at 12.6v but maybe throw them away and get something useful. Even 4s1p headways rest at 13.6v

if I have my alt set at 15v and I'm using 6s lto banks, than the banks will supply power immediately no voltage drop at all. Because the battery is always in a point of ,ready to charge, and not in the full charged float voltage. You only get drop when you are charging in the float voltages. At 15.8v the lithium is fully charged and will hold that voltage until it's depleted. You don't need to keep a lithium 100% topped off like agm. It's better for the battery but less damaging than overcharging

If you have ever looked at a lithium drain test you will notice that they hold voltage for a long time before immediately dropping severely unlike agms which drop voltage linearly.

Again I get ohms law and ohms law stays true but battery drain curves throw that argument out the window when you aren't dropping voltage. When voltage is dropping .2v instead of 2v it's vastly different

finally some correct info. You might be in the lithium Facebook group.

for Charging up to 14.8v use lifePo4 like headway cells

charging over 14.8v use lithium lto like Lishen. You can get all the info and cells for cheap on the lithium group.
And the website srikobatteries.com

You can get this and it will make a 32ah bank. That’s so much cheaper and much more powerful than a weak ass titan battery. They are really screwing over the uninformed with these.

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Selkec

· #37 · 6 mo ago

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2142284452700573/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF

Freakquency

· #38 · 6 mo ago

ItsonlyaHONDA said:
I will eventually do a bunch of modifications to my car including the alternator soon as my warranty expires. Still got an other year. Then 6k salt it is for me. But in other to support my sounds now I went with 2 lithiums in the back an a AGM stater battery. I used the xs-power Titan8's, A RSV and a PWR S5's. But my woltage holds steady for the most part even full tilt in traffic.

You're going 6k?? craziness.

winkychevelle

· #39 · 6 mo ago

Selkec said:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2142284452700573/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF

Yea lots of good info on there

ItsonlyaHONDA

· #40 · 6 mo ago

Freakquency said:
You're going 6k?? craziness.

Eventually, when ever I decide to upgrade the alternator. I'm sure that will blow them SQLs. Lol

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