Advice before we 'glass it in'?

1023 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by pyr0maniac, Apr 24, 2009

BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · Mar 2, 2009

Hi Gents,

I'm hoping to draw from some of the knowledge base here and by asking if anyone can see anything that might be of concern with the following layout, before it's 'set in glass' so to speak.

I hope the owner doesn't mind me posting some pics, but we were very limited with possibilities with the arrangement. The drivers side kick has a fuse box located in it, that I couldn't really get a neat mount for the RS's in there or even near there without having to relocate, which I'm not keen on doing with someone else vehicle. The Midrange could have possibly been mounted off-axis in the top front section of the door panels, but this was major work and I was concerned with the stage depth suffering having them so far back towards the listener.

We also have very limited useable real estate on the dash with which to fit drivers and hence haven't quiet got them 'on-axis' for the drivers side, but they aren't too far off.

The plan is to glass and cover in headlining material, which will be tricky, given the undercurve back to the tweeter ring from the midrange ring, but I think it will be okay.

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Center console Steering wheel

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falkenbd

· #2 · Mar 2, 2009

have you listened to it that way?

i think you are blocking the tweeters a bit, I might put the tweeters on the outside or stack them vertically and test it that way.

vidizzle

· #3 · Mar 2, 2009

that says steal me all over it..
you should talk to the owner about relocating the fusebox and if you dont want to do it u can let someone with more experince relocate it

vidizzle

· #4 · Mar 2, 2009

have no clue y this computer always double posts

sorry

BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 2, 2009 (Edited)

falkenbd said:
have you listened to it that way?

i think you are blocking the tweeters a bit, I might put the tweeters on the outside or stack them vertically and test it that way.

Cheers, I had some concerns about that but couldn't really see any way to get the tweeter higher without blocking the windscreen rather excessively. The tweeter rings actually just touch the screen, A-pillar and dash, but I made sure that the dome itself was wholey visible when sighted from the ear location. I'll attach another image to show how tight the area is.

View attachment 8919

Vehicle door Audio equipment Auto part Door handle Automotive exterior

vidizzle :- I'd possibly look at moving it if it were my own car, but I'm always cautious with other peoples vehicles. Would you suggest that mounting them down in the kicks would offer a better solution? How would you mount them? Firing accross as the tunnel?

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falkenbd

· #6 · Mar 2, 2009

I'd test out a few more a-pillar setups if I were you.

Maybe point them more towards the opposite side head rest and see what kind of results you get. I'd try tweeters on the outside as well. I'd try out every possible scenario in the pillars before I mounted them.

I'd also do everything in my power to minimize the amount they stick out. Maybe try putting them on a single baffle next to each other.

dkm201

· #7 · Mar 3, 2009

Why not use a 3" cone midrange instead of that 2" dome that takes up 4"? You can cross lower and it won't block the tweeter as much...

BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 3, 2009

We did spend a fair bit of time with the drivers mounted in the rings seeing where they'd physically fit. I know it isn't ideal, but with the drivers supplied and the lack of real estate it's very tight.

I was counting on the velour/hood lining material that I'm thinking of covering these with would actually stop any nasty reflections back from the Mid overhang in front of the tweeter, not causing too much variation in response.

The RS52 actually takes up over 5inch diameter, the driver itself is 130mm accross the face, it's a very large driver.

Working with what has been supplied driver wise.

30something

· #9 · Mar 3, 2009

I would machine the diameter of those faceplates down as much as possible. It would make that job a LOT easier and look a lot better IMO.

BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 3, 2009

30something said:
I would machine the diameter of those faceplates down as much as possible. It would make that job a LOT easier and look a lot better IMO.

Computer cooling Technology Fan Audio equipment Electronic device

I suspect at the most I'd be able to make it 120mm, but in doing that I wouldn't have much from plate to mount them with. The cut-out required is about 101mm ID so that is the limiting factor. 120mm OD would only give me a couple of mm either side and not much meat for the screws to bite in to.

I could also reduce the Ring size by mounting the driver onto the face rather then recressing them flush, it would reduce the OD of the midrange by a further 10mm diameter then what it is currently, will this affect the dispersion however?

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BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 3, 2009

I guess the easiest way to tell for sure will be to set up my CBRTA and do some testing prior.

I'm not 100% comfortable with the tweeters being partially impeded by the mid ring, but with the drivers I don't think there's much room to move. I don't particularly want to modify the drivers in case they for some reason need to be replaced and further to that driver selection has been locked in for the moment. The visual of the install wasn't of major concern to the owner, but the resultant sound is.

My main concerns are :-

- Tweeters front plate being impeded by the mid ring (though the complete dome and about 5mm around this is clearly visible from the RH ear location. IE the possible effect on sound.
- Mids slighty off-axis (all drivers are aimied pretty much towards an imaginary point between the drivers and passenger side headrest pushed as far back to the front as possible.
- Whether or not to retain the rebate for the driver finishing the front plates flush or should I 'shape' it back to minimise the size by mounting the drivers onto the ring not recessed. This will give me a fraction more room to move re install, but will mean rejigging the pillars.

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BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 23, 2009 (Edited)

Okays, so we finished these off over the weekend...

View attachment 9848
View attachment 9849
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Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

· #13 · Apr 23, 2009

I know it's not your fault, cause you are working with customer drivers and all but that looks like hell...

I would shave them speakers down to the bare minimum possible..

I guess that is the ills of wanting large format HA gear in the car though...

I commend your hard work though man..

BMWturbo

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 24, 2009 (Edited)

The vehicle pillar area was not at all conducive to large formats. The kicks would have required hefty reworking and fuse box relocation and doors cards would have required a full rework.

I am very impressed with the sound from the MR's and Tweeter's installed as they are though.

LH response
View attachment 9861

RH Response
View attachment 9862

Overall response
View attachment 9863

The MB's could do with some work, differing low end extension from either side... I put down to enclosure/mounting.
The MR and Tweeters had only the smallest amount of PEQ applied.

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rockondon

· #15 · Apr 24, 2009

F/R looks pretty good. But how does it sound. ?

pwnt by pat

· #16 · Apr 24, 2009

You should have moved the tweeter higher up so it's not behind the midrange. Much less energy contained in those higher frequencies.

pyr0maniac

· #17 · Apr 24, 2009

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:
I know it's not your fault, cause you are working with customer drivers and all but that looks like hell...

I would shave them speakers down to the bare minimum possible..

I guess that is the ills of wanting large format HA gear in the car though...

I commend your hard work though man..

That customer is myself. It really has to be seen to be appreciated, the pictures don't do it any justice. I sometimes almost get lost in their beauty while driving (ALMOST). Shaving them down would be more or less pointless given the location of the screw-holes and the size of the back. It sounds brilliant but as always it can sound even better. It was only supposed to be a rough job anyway as I've decided to longer hang-on to the car.

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