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Advice for best midrange clarity with door mounted 6.5

8K views 10 replies 9 participants last post by  Pitzury 
#1 ·
Im about to start my build in my '02 Passat and of course I'm looking to get the best imaging and clarity possible!:cool: I'm using a pair of JBL 660c components and they're going in the stock location in the lower door corners, behind the panels. Ive read that having the mid-bass completely off axis can seriously hurt the midrange response and clarity in male vocals and such due to the speaker beaming; So I had the idea of using some angled speaker rings to bring the speakers a little more on axis. But ive had people tell me that it could cause waves to get caught in the panel even if some foam is used to seal it to the cab. And since there's no real room in the floor to go with kick panels, im out of ideas! So I'm hoping that one of you gurus on the site may have some tip or trick to help me out! hehe :D Sorry for my noobish question, but im pretty new to this :p Thanks in advance guys!
(Sorry if theres other threads about this, but I couldnt find em. So if there is, feel free to point me to 'em! lol)
 
#3 ·
To get good midrange clarity, you need excellent phase response through the midrange. While flat frequency response is nice, IMHO clarity requires good phase response. I think this is the reason you see a lot of the home audio guys going crazy about full-range speakers. While their frequency response is inferior to a good two way, the phase response of a full range is leaps and bounds above what a two-way can do. (Or at least it's better than 90% of the two-ways out there.)

Long story short -

If you want midrange clarity, I'd think long and hard about using components. You might consider a small full range, or a very good coaxial.

I'm a fan of Unity horns, which are basically the coaxial idea taken to the nth degree. Check out some of my threads for my psychotic ramblings about clarity and loudspeaker phase.
 
#4 ·
I agree with Mr. Bateman. That's why with components they always tell you to mount the tweeter right next to the woofer. Idk why so many people mount their woofers in the kicks or doors and then mount tweeters up high.

As far as angling the woofers, If you can only angle a couple of degrees I wouldn't worry about it. It'll be more trouble than it's worth.

If you do decide on components, do mount the tweeter with the woofer. Mounting the tweeter low may seem like a bad idea but it's far better than dealing with the phase issues that will occur otherwise. These phase issues are what is going to kill your midrange.
 
#9 ·
Idk why so many people mount their woofers in the kicks or doors and then mount tweeters up high.

If you do decide on components, do mount the tweeter with the woofer. Mounting the tweeter low may seem like a bad idea but it's far better than dealing with the phase issues that will occur otherwise. These phase issues are what is going to kill your midrange.
Because mounting the tweets higher ensures that a chunk of the midrange and above is relatively unobstructed vis a vis your ears. A lot of the upper mid and high frequency content would get absorbed with the tweets mounted low. Also ensuring that frequencies carrying height cues are from a physically higher point.

If you don't have TA and you mount the tweet down low, with a typical; 2-2.5khz crossover on most passives, you have to get the tweeter within like 1.5" of the woofer for 1/4 wave, which is not always feasible. Plus L/R is going top be out in any case.

You can mount the tweets down low, but I prefer them higher up on the door / sail / pillar. Phase in a car is nothing more than timing and response.
 
#5 ·
Also mind that the stock speaker grille hole on a door panel is a little offset to a speaker location. I realized that when I cut out the factory grille. And it is the same on all four doors. I had eventually cut a little larger hole in door panel to align it with the speaker.
 
#6 ·
There are guys on here who have done installs where the midrange was intentionally covered. As long as it's not a high freq driver I wouldn't worry about it.
 
#7 ·
I also have a '04 Passat Sedan with Hertz ML1600 midbass in factory door location and Helix RS801 tweeters in the mirror triangle cut at about 2.5kHz active.
I would like to use either HD500 2" sealed midrange or HM1000 4" mids and I don't know what's the best route.
The 2" speaker do not need an enclosure and would be easier to find a spot for them either just higher than the woofer or next to the tweeter in the A pillar. I could use the 3W.30 crossover for the mids and highs that cut the freq at 850Hz and 4.5kHz or use another 2 Way Hertz crossover that crosses at 3.5kHz. BP from the XD700.5 amplifier could be from about 900Hz and up.
The 4" speaker would need some space/enclosure and could probably be installed only right next to the woofer but it would be difficult to build some sort of a pod. It would however perform better.
Suggestions?
 
#10 ·
I decided not to play with angles for midds in the current car, as seemed to be rather complicated and time consuming. The idea was to preserve the indoor outlook as a fabric one. The only step I made forward SQ was - making MUCH more and MUCH bigger drillings in the stock grills. It helped a lot with the sound clarity at midrange. Now I can see (my ears too) a significant part of the speakers surface.
With regards to phase and delay - has solved this with DSP.
 
#11 ·
In a Passat the door speaker grille is offset anyway. I believe that the middbass should work in the lowest possible range and use midrange and tweeters for the more directional sound. Right now I have 2 way active setup and i crossed between 1.5-3.5kHz and still don't like it. Don't get me wrong it sounds betterthan I've ever heard but I can sense the phisical distance between the tweeter and woofer.
 
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