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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello, I'd love to have your advice on my planned system. Installation will be done by a professional shop so no worry about wiring and tuning.

The setup on my 2015 Infiniti Q60S coupe is planned like this:
Alpine UTX A09 Hi Res HU
Audison VOCE 3 – way active with Audison Bit One
• AV1.1: Peak 180W with Zapco ST 4XP amp (240W RMS x2)
• AV3.0: Peak 100W with Pioneer A5702 amp (150W RMS x2)
• AV6.5: Peak 200 W with Zapco ST 4XP amp (240W RMS x2)
• Audison AV10 subwoofer (Continuous 400W, max 800W) with Pioneer A5702 amp (480W RMS bridged)
All amps are AB class

Assuming tuning process and wiring are flawless, this should maximize the potential of those speakers, right? Now the car runs the same speakers but with only Audison Prima 8.9 (35W x 4 + 130W x2 bridged) and it doesn't sound good at all, very weak and underpowered.

Please offer me some of your thoughts before I proceed. Thank you very much!

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Something’s not right.

That system in its current form should JAM. Bet it’s the tune, rather than a lack of output power.

can you connect to the bit one with your laptop and post a screenshot of the settings?
 

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2006 Hyundai Sonata V6
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Have you done any sound treatments?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My current setup is this:

  • Audison VOCE 3 – way same as above + DSP/Amp Audison AP8.9 bit ( 35W x 4 for tweeters + mids, 130W x 2 for woofers) - this is not the Forza 8.9 bit, which is more powerful
  • Audison AV10 subwoofer + Pioneer D8601 class D
  • Full 2 door sound deadening
Car shows no sign of lacking electrical power when turning to max

Tuning and installation were done by a professional shop. I've had them tune twice and same results. The sound stage can be felt only at near max volume and I can feel it really underpowered. Reading the specs alone shows underpowered as well, 35W is too low for those speakers.

Feeling so, I decided to go with a separate DSP and more powerful amps + class AB amps are better than class D ones. New system will begin installing in about a month as parts are still missing. All I need to know is if the new system is going to be good for those speakers based on your thoughts. Thank you!
 

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Yes the new amps will work. But it probably won’t fix your problem. More power will not fix the staging issues. That’s a system tuning thing. You should have an incredibly stable center image with that gear, even at very low output levels.

saying it was tuned by a professional shop means nothing. If you’re US based, I can think of maybe 10-15 shops that can correctly tune a DSP. That’s it.

if you just want LOUDER, than the new system will do that. It will not produce a drastic difference in output quality, though. Again… Tuning.

and, for the record, there’s nothing inherent in class AB that makes it better than class D. It’s more about the board layout and components used.

ive installed half a dozen of those Audison ap DSP amps, the AP and APF. It should be plenty. You’re missing something here.
 

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I agree with x550. More power is not going to fix the problem. Now, the problem may get fixed in the process of installing new amps, and retuning, but the issue now isn't power. A tweeter needs about 1 watt to sound good, 5 watts is more than enough for loud listening. Working down to midbass speakers and 50 watts is usually plenty.

All adding more power will do is increase the SPL you can play at, it will not fix any staging issues, or issues with the overall tone of the system. Your new plan will work well, and will sound good if tuned well, but it can easily sound every bit as bad as it sounds now. I think you have a lot of improvments that could be done with what you have before throwing money at the problem.
 

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Additional sound treatments beyond the doors would probably help, but it sounds more like install/tuning issues. It sounds like you don't currently have a separate DSP, so adding that should certainly help the tuning process dramatically. I would try the DSP with the existing amps before also spending more money on new amps. Do you have photos of the current driver locations & install methods?
 

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35W is not too low for tweeters and mids. Ignore the max power spec, look at the sensitivity. At 93db those things don't need much power. Throwing 240W at your tweeters won't help. You're tweeters will never see more than 5-10W anyways. Unless you're clipping the amps before you get as loud as you want, power is probably not your issue.

Also staging usually disappears as you turn a system up, and since you described it as 'feeling' a soundstage I wonder if that's really what you mean.

It sounds like you just want it to be louder and more impactful. Perhaps you just got the wrong setup for taste.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you all for advising me. These are all great comments. So the problem may lie in the tuning, I really hope that's the case cuz it'll save me cost. What I feel now is really uncomfortable with the way it sounds. I certainly don't want it to be louder for SPL purpose, but the whole system feels "underpowered" and "unclear" , feels like I know there's more potential to the speakers but the DSP/Amp cannot get there. At a reasonable volume, the tweeters don't sound bright and clear enough, thus the sound stage isn't good. The mids aren't good either, but the woofers (bridged 120w RMS x2) are. If I want them to perform the way I want, then the volume is too high and I really don't want to push the amp to its limit.

There are 3 layers of sound deadening materials in my doors, not sure if more layers and other places are needed, but I don't think that 'd help much with the problem here.

I hope with this description, you can get a picture of my situation. I decided to go with more amps and power because there's nothing else to do with the AP8.9 bit.

My country's been in full lockdown for 3 months now, I'm looking at at least 1 more month till everything barely gets back to normal. That's why I need some answers before I can go the shop again. I'll have them tune once more to see how things go. The owner of the shop won several EMMA awards and used to be 1 of it judges, so tuning can't likely go wrong.
 

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Thank you all for advising me. These are all great comments. So the problem may lie in the tuning, I really hope that's the case cuz it'll save me cost. What I feel now is really uncomfortable with the way it sounds. I certainly don't want it to be louder for SPL purpose, but the whole system feels "underpowered" and "unclear" , feels like I know there's more potential to the speakers but the DSP/Amp cannot get there. At a reasonable volume, the tweeters don't sound bright and clear enough, thus the sound stage isn't good. The mids aren't good either, but the woofers (bridged 120w RMS x2) are. If I want them to perform the way I want, then the volume is too high and I really don't want to push the amp to its limit.

There are 3 layers of sound deadening materials in my doors, not sure if more layers and other places are needed, but I don't think that 'd help much with the problem here.

I hope with this description, you can get a picture of my situation. I decided to go with more amps and power because there's nothing else to do with the AP8.9 bit.

My country's been in full lockdown for 3 months now, I'm looking at at least 1 more month till everything barely gets back to normal. That's why I need some answers before I can go the shop again. I'll have them tune once more to see how things go. The owner of the shop won several EMMA awards and used to be 1 of it judges, so tuning can't likely go wrong.
Are you at all willing/interesting in doing some tinkering yourself? You have a DSP, if you buy a microphone you can download REW for free and start taking objective measurements to help describe what's actually going on. Saying that the system "feels underpowered and unclear" doesn't really tell us anything meaningful, so if you're willing to tinker we can find some issues and fix them.
 

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Are you at all willing/interesting in doing some tinkering yourself? You have a DSP, if you buy a microphone you can download REW for free and start taking objective measurements to help describe what's actually going on. Saying that the system "feels underpowered and unclear" doesn't really tell us anything meaningful, so if you're willing to tinker we can find some issues and fix them.
My guess would be the tune as well. Midbass to sub integration and levels my need looked at if it doesn't sound "powerful".

Do you know how the shop tuned it? Like what kind of overall response? If they tuned it flat that could explain some of your issues.

Here's a thread about target curves people typically enjoy. Everyone's taste and application is different but this should give you an idea of what is considered a good tune as far as frequency response goes.

 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, I'm not a pro in tuning, I may not know how to do the REW stuff. Looks like I'll have to talk to my shop again about the tuning. I'll have them tune again and send me the data so you can all judge. I normally listen to deep house/lounge music as I like the chill vibe of it. Thank you all for helping me. I guess that's enough for me. I'll update you once I have the tuning data.
 

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Better than nothing and would at least give you an idea of your curve would be Audio Control MobileTools app. It’s free and uses the mic in your phone. Like I said, better than nothing.
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