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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wanting advice on what Lp/hp these drivers with how I have them in my car.
I have seas prestige in the sails on axis right next to Audison voce 3”
Currently I have the tweets playing 4000 and up. Do people set the lp on tweets to 20k or just bypass it? I’ve always just bypassed it.
I have the Audison 250-4000

with them so close together is that good or is it better to run the mids maybe to 6 or 7000?
It sounds good but something isn’t quite right to my ears and I can’t figure it down. I used to have the mids halfway up the door in my last VW and that sounded better. I just wanted to try a pillars this time.
Here’s a pic of them now and second pic is where I had them in last car



Car Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Hood

Car Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive design Steering wheel
 

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2004 Rav4 JL900/5 NVXvad2 MiniDsp 8x12(Dirac) LPG26NA GS25 Epique180-44 Um12
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Are you measuring the system response with decent mic and program like rew?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yea. I’m just curious others thoughts
 

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I always just click bypass the LP on Tweets in my Helix DSP.

Just my personnel opinion, but I prefer my Mid-Range & Tweets to meet around 3.2k. In the past I've used 2.6k all the way up to 5k, but always seem to fall back to around 3.2k...... My Mid-Range GB25's are in upper door panel, Tweets in A-pillar, about 12" inches between them.
 

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I always just click bypass the LP on Tweets in my Helix DSP.

Just my personnel opinion, but I prefer my Mid-Range & Tweets to meet around 3.2k. In the past I've used 2.6k all the way up to 5k, but always seem to fall back to around 3.2k...... My Mid-Range GB25's are in upper door panel, Tweets in A-pillar, about 12" inches between them.
Is 3.2k where the response of both drivers has a nice dip free area through the crossover range in your car?
 

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Is 3.2k where the response of both drivers has a nice dip free area through the crossover range in your car?
My GB25's play fairly flat from around 2.5k up to around 4.5k, then at 4.5k they roll off kinda quick. So, yeah, the 3.2k is a sweet spot for them. Freq's under 2.5k I have some dips......

My GB10's have no issues with bad dips anywhere.....
 
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My GB25's play fairly flat from around 2.5k up to around 4.5k, then at 4.5k they roll off kinda quick. So, yeah, the 3.2k is a sweet spot for them. Freq's under 2.5k I have some dips......

My GB10's have no issues with bad dips anywhere.....
I got lucky with my gs25’s having a pretty nice run from 200hz +, it’s the midbass that’s the trickster lol. I think I cross nicely to the lpg26na tweets at 4,000. The lpg’s have a fs like 2k.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My mids have huge peaks and one has big dip aroind 1000hz. They both on axis too so not sure why they were better when they were mounded mid door on axis. I liked the soind better with the mids mid door. Still high stage and very wide yet pinpoint center. They seem more like they wanna yell at me in the a pillars. Think I’m gonna make foot pods and move them down. But I might look for some 4” mids. I’ll have to figure out who makes good 4” that are not really in efficient. My Audison voce are 93db and I like how very dynamic that are.

my crossovers I used to use lp3000 on the mids and hp3000 on tweets

then lp3000 mids. Hp3700 tweets which created a nice dip in the frequency ranges that are harsh to the ears.
This time I’m using both at 4000hz so maybe I should go back to what worked with the mids in the doors. I have been using the Jazzi curve which does create the dip where I like it but something isn’t quite right still. Everyone else says it sounds amazing but I hear the tweet doing something like a reflection or something but it didn’t do it before.
Could it be that my mids are kinda in front of the mids and that’s causing a weird reflection issue?

when using auto time align if I have the subs included helix is making my tweets delayed slightly more than mids by about .05 ms. But the tweets are further from me so the mids should be delayed more.
Its almost like I need to flip flop the mids and tweets TA to be correct.
I bet that is what im hearing now that I think about it.


i thought I read 3200 is at the end of most vocals and some say don’t crossover in that range so that’s why I haven’t tried 3200. And why I tried to get a thread going about how distance between drivers can affect what crossover frequency to use but didn’t get much hits in that thread.
 

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I’d be looking closely at the windshield/dashboard about the 1khz null. The wavelength at 1k is 13” and then the 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave starts to fit like a glove. I don’t remember if it’s the 1/4 or 1/2 wave but it seems to fit the scenario.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How does the wavelength effect the crossover frequency I should choose? Looking at my pic above what would you try
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I’d be looking closely at the windshield/dashboard about the 1khz null. The wavelength at 1k is 13” and then the 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave starts to fit like a glove. I don’t remember if it’s the 1/4 or 1/2 wave but it seems to fit the scenario.
My windshield isn’t really gonna reflexes much due to how they are mounted

this is what I see…
Car Vehicle Motor vehicle White Light
 

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There’s possibly some wave cancellations there. A lot of times midrange drivers are mounted on the pillars response anomalies exactly like that can occur. Weather it’s a 1/4 or 1/2 wavelength, when waves reflect and collide they can either subtract or add to that frequency causing the erratic response. The door location probably avoided the common problem of drivers near glass and the dash. In my opinion the only things to remedy this would be a dashboard mat or some eq to drop the surrounding response closer to the dips level.

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im gonna move them when I decide on what 4” I want.

if reflections are so bad at causing things like this. Why do people put mids off axis facing each other on the a pillars or in the dash bouncing off the windshield. Then most of what you hear is all reflection lol
 

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I was once terrified of crossing within the vocal range and learned that as long as the response is linear through the crossover it’s totally fine. For best results at least an octave on either side needs to be linear, at least free of bigger ones.
 

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Im gonna move them when I decide on what 4” I want.

if reflections are so bad at causing things like this. Why do people put mids off axis facing each other on the a pillars or in the dash bouncing off the windshield. Then most of what you hear is all reflection lol
Because sometimes people act like sheep… sometimes people know what they are listening for and how to use reflections… sometimes people just do the easiest thing… sometimes people don’t want to cut stuff, and use factory locations

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, but getting drivers away from one or more reflective surfaces is a good thing… hence why your doors sounded decent! 👍🏼
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Back to the doors it is! At least I know how what a pillars are like. I had never done them in a car of my own. Now I have
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Why a different driver?
just to try something different. Something bigger that can handle my listening habits of real high levels easier and handle playing down to 250 while doing it. The Audison don’t like going under 300 with me lol. I really use my system and like to get it loud to its max, and love it when it’s way up and you can feel the snaps of instruments and drums smack yoi in the face. When the body can feel the music so much it can really pull out emotions and reactions from people they weren’t expecting. I’ve never done a demo where the person hasn’t walked away moved either from adrenaline or excitement or whatever it was. They are usually speechless to be honest. I did a demo yesterday for about an hour yesterday with a guy that teared up Several times and they weren’t sad songs. He told me he went to Slamology this year and listened to SQ cars for the first time ever because he was an spl type of guy and he said while they all sounded great not one made him feel the way mine did. “He said why don’t you compete”! I said because “I’m in it for the thing that just happened to you”. And I enjoy seeing other people experience it

… and I digress. Lol. Sometimes I even get all caught up in it just talking about it like I just did. Maybe I do it because music is in my blood and soul. My whole family even cousins and grandpas all play music and are in bands. I can play almost any instrument I pick up with about an hour practice by ear. But I don’t. MY CAR IS MY INSTRUMENT Whew. Now I’m going out to my car to play
 

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The tweeter LP should be used to push back the phase to match the filter,

in your helix go to the system phase box and you can see the effect the filter has against other drivers

you want them all to have a phase that overlaps eachother as much as possible....

you can try using polarity flips in certain instances....

it may or may not help alignment w mid and maintain close phase relationship with other driver s
 

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The tweeter LP should be used to push back the phase to match the filter,

in your helix go to the system phase box and you can see the effect the filter has against other drivers

you want them all to have a phase that overlaps eachother as much as possible....

you can try using polarity flips in certain instances....

it may or may not help alignment w mid and maintain close phase relationship with other driver s
Wish I could follow this better, sounds very interesting.... anyway you could give an example or explain a little deeper?
 
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