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Discussion Starter #1
As I price out my system, I notice my H/U is a big chunk of cash :>)

How do you think an aftermarket H/U with 5v outputs would compare to a stock H/U with a Navone LOC and and an equalizer/line driver added on(and by line driver, I'm hoping to get one that does 8-10v)?

Could you still tell the difference? In my case it would save a big chunk of cash that I could spend elsewhere.....
 

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stock decks usually have some equalization already in their units to make the cheap inferior speakers they put in cars sound better. also, the sound is not linear say at low volumes than at mid volume because of a rising eq curve that has been put into the factory unit. Using a good conv't will solve any loss and noise issues, but if you put junk in you get junk out.

I've always seen much better performance when the factory unit was tossed, the only time I've heard something really impressive was from ZAPCO. they had a demo vehicle with an "ordinary' conv'ts and then they had a switch that they could flip to their conv't which automatically went SYMBILINK after that to the amps. The difference was insane.
 

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it depends on the deck to be honest

if your OEM deck has a stock amplifier then id say get a jl clean sweep over the navone, but if if its just a HU running speakers

the navone 4 ch will work well IMO, but the lack of control (corssovers, EQ, etc ) was my biggest reason for taking my LOC out and getting a aftermarket HU


im going to out a LOC in wifeys car since here buick has too much integrated stuff in it to remove it
 

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excelerater said:
I have never heard a system with a LOC that sounded good or produced the output it was designed for


.02

Like I said over on FSC, I like the way it sounds in my wife's ride. I invite you to Arizona this weekend to audition the SUV. Are you sure the Navone LOC was the limiting factor in those systems you listended to? I have to think that perhaps it was some other factor not creating a good response. Did those systems sound better when the OEM deck was replaced by an aftermarket hu?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, my stock HU has an amp, and pre-outs can be added to that amp, but there will still be noise added........an aftermarket EQ will be added regardless, so flattening the response out can be done with a mic, but the noise is what I'm worried about.....
 

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AzGrower said:
Did those systems sound better when the OEM deck was replaced by an aftermarket hu?
IMO every system that i built for other people that insisted on keeping the factory head unit but going full tilt on amps and good speakers always seen a difference when they finally changed the head unit. The systems just "open" up and come alive. I've used many LOC's including the Navone one, but a new head-unit always fared better.

I don't doubt the wife's car sounds awesome, but I'll bet it could sound even better with an aftermarket head unit with a better s/n, power supply, and DAC's.
 

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WLDock said:
Some stock decks just don't sound good(VW's come to mind..) but, Autosound 2000's test seem to say that some stock deck can produce a clean signal:

http://www.davidnavone.com/heresHow/files/OEM vs Aftermarket Decks21.pdf

I say if you are short on cash give it a try....setting the levels correct is going to be key.
David Navone also claims that unshielded twisted pair cables are better for car audio than normal shielded :D hmmmmm wonder why? Even though any computer geek could tell you twisted pair cable is only good for balanced setups
and do nothing for airborne noise. ;) Its all about $$$$$$$$$ when David gives advice. Of course he will say stock head units can be clean! That way people buy his stuff!!

Although i have used stock head units using his LOCs with good results with external processing. I'm currently using my stocker right now since i just changed cars and single DIN head units look ghey in this particular car.
 

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audiowave said:
IMO every system that i built for other people that insisted on keeping the factory head unit but going full tilt on amps and good speakers always seen a difference when they finally changed the head unit. The systems just "open" up and come alive. I've used many LOC's including the Navone one, but a new head-unit always fared better.

I don't doubt the wife's car sounds awesome, but I'll bet it could sound even better with an aftermarket head unit with a better s/n, power supply, and DAC's.
most are optimized for the stock speakers, once they switch the stock speakers out, now the head unit internal PRESET NON ADJUSTABLE eq will not sound good with aftermarket speakers.

Thats why the JL cleansweep works so well. Personally bad ass DAC's and S/N ratios don't impress me much, as long as its a clean signal processing power and speakers are 10000000000000 times more important.
 

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Thats why the JL cleansweep works so well. Personally bad ass DAC's and S/N ratios don't impress me much, as long as its a clean signal processing power and speakers are 10000000000000 times more important.[/QUOTE]


The cleansweep proabably does wonders but it can only work with what it is given. Most factory heads dont have fiber optic outs so you are still dealing with the analog outputs in almost every case. If it it were digital in from factory heads; what you say could true......

Listen to a really good head unit then compare that to a factory head with a cleansweep and tell me you can get back what you hear from a really good head unit...don't think so.

peace.
 

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What deck are you thinking of buying? Dont fall for the gimick that newer is better, there are plenty of awesome older decks out there. Infact, i dont run anything newer than alpine 7949 myself. That is a great deck that i have found on ebay for less than $100. I currently own 5 alpine 7949's. They do have problems playing lower grade cd-r's though, but i dont have a single burnt disc in my collection, so it doesnt matter to me. Also, check out the clarion 9375r. It is another deck that flies under the radar on ebay. Its a good classic clarion piece, plays cd-rs with no problem, and you can mate it to the external dph-9300 processor via an optical cable for outboard burr brown signal conversion. I have 2 clarion drx-9375r / dph-9300 setups, and i paid around $120 for one (minus the cable). Cant beat the performance for that kind of money. Go oldschool.
Hans
 

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mbcouple said:
What deck are you thinking of buying? Dont fall for the gimick that newer is better, there are plenty of awesome older decks out there. Infact, i dont run anything newer than alpine 7949 myself. That is a great deck that i have found on ebay for less than $100. I currently own 5 alpine 7949's. They do have problems playing lower grade cd-r's though, but i dont have a single burnt disc in my collection, so it doesnt matter to me. Also, check out the clarion 9375r. It is another deck that flies under the radar on ebay. Its a good classic clarion piece, plays cd-rs with no problem, and you can mate it to the external dph-9300 processor via an optical cable for outboard burr brown signal conversion. I have 2 clarion drx-9375r / dph-9300 setups, and i paid around $120 for one (minus the cable). Cant beat the performance for that kind of money. Go oldschool.
Hans

I'm not in the market of buying a deck, but I agree that the old school is where its at. I have a 7909, Denon 9770, old Naks, old Rockford's built by Denon,
Japan Carozzeria McIntosh units, etc. If you can live without the bling, fancy displays, built in x-overs etc these are far superior.

Caps usually leak and go bad tho, catch 22. :(
 

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audiowave said:
Thats why the JL cleansweep works so well. Personally bad ass DAC's and S/N ratios don't impress me much, as long as its a clean signal processing power and speakers are 10000000000000 times more important.

The cleansweep proabably does wonders but it can only work with what it is given. Most factory heads dont have fiber optic outs so you are still dealing with the analog outputs in almost every case. If it it were digital in from factory heads; what you say could true......

Listen to a really good head unit then compare that to a factory head with a cleansweep and tell me you can get back what you hear from a really good head unit...don't think so.

peace.[/QUOTE]


actually i bet the cleansweep sounds better, the cleansweep takes a reading in your car and gives you a completely flat response, It doesn't just get rid of any internal EQ from the head unit, you play some pink noise in your system and it will totally flatten out your reponse, you could even use it with aftermarket headunit just to use for starting with a flat response. You can then EQ from there.

out of the box cleansweep and stocker will probably sound 1000 times better than just throwing in an aftermarket Headunit and playing music.

Also i'm willing to bet 99.9999999% of people use analog anyway even with aftermarket stuff.....
 

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Discussion Starter #16
you also have to account for price for performance ration, too though. The cleansweep is a cool $500. I can get high quality aftermarket H/U's for a less money.....heck, if I go ebay, I could get an H/U AND an ADJUSTABLE EQ, lol

Not that i like the look of aftermarket H/U's in my car though, so now we have a problem......
 

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If you look at the information of JLs website about the clean sweep it does not mention a mic input or real time calibration. It seems it only eqs the frequncy response of the factory headunit, not the in car response.

Quote from website:
"Approximately 20 seconds later, the CleanSweep™ is finished analyzing and equalizing the factory-installed source’s response and stores the corrections in non-volatile flash memory. "

You could do the same thing with a free computer program and a 31 band EQ.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
yep. sure could. I think jl audio will eventually release a cleansweep that you can plug a laptop into and adjust EQ settings yourself, then at least it would be worth it to buy something that not only has an auto setting, but then you can go back and adjust it yourself for your own system. Maybe the RF unit coming out will improve on this device by the time I'm ready to buy.....I'd buy something like that.......
 

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xencloud said:
you also have to account for price for performance ration, too though. The cleansweep is a cool $500. I can get high quality aftermarket H/U's for a less money.....heck, if I go ebay, I could get an H/U AND an ADJUSTABLE EQ, lol

Not that i like the look of aftermarket H/U's in my car though, so now we have a problem......
Well the whole point of the cleansweep was that in alot of newer high end cars, they don't use the old single, or double dins anymore, they are incorporated into the dash making it impossible to just change it out for an aftermarket head unit.
Not only that many cars would look worse with aftermarket head units compared to stock. SOme cars have GREAT looking stereo heads and controls these days.
And people don't want to stray from the stock look.

But i'm pretty sure that no matter what you can get pretty damn close to the sound of the best aftermarket head unit with a stocker with the right processing. Thats why i never bother with the SUPER expensive head units and just spend the money on processing equip instead.
 

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Kramerica said:
If you look at the information of JLs website about the clean sweep it does not mention a mic input or real time calibration. It seems it only eqs the frequncy response of the factory headunit, not the in car response.

Quote from website:
"Approximately 20 seconds later, the CleanSweep™ is finished analyzing and equalizing the factory-installed source’s response and stores the corrections in non-volatile flash memory. "

You could do the same thing with a free computer program and a 31 band EQ.
bummer that really sucks nevermind!!!! :eek: somebody feels like a tard.... :p
 
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