[few35t]

Ok, first I want to start off by saying I used to think I knew at least a little about mobile audio, then I joined this forum. :blush: I now know I have very, very much to learn. But anyway! I'm going to begin a completely new audio build in my 2010 Civic coupe Si. Initially I was thinking I was going to piece together various parts consisting of:

1. Pioneer double din HU (always like Pioneer HU's)
2. 2 6.5" component sets (car has 2 6.5" in the doors and 2 6.5" on rear deck)
3. 4 channel amp for components
4. 2 12" subs
5. mono amp for subs

I decided to go with the Pioneer AVH-X4700BS for my HU, I can buy it for around $320 new and it has some good tuning features for a DD unit.

I then stumbled upon the Pioneer GM-D9601 and GM-D8604 and thought those were some pretty impressive specs for the money; the mono does 1200w rms @1 ohm and the 4 channel does 100w rms x4 at 4 ohms, both can be purchased for around $300.

I also see the Pioneer TS-W3003D4 12" subs that are rated for 600w rms and can be bought for $160 for TWO.

I thought to myself, if I'm going to go this far, might as well complete the build with some Pioneer components, and found the TS-D1720C, which are reviewed really well for their price of around $100 a set.

To finish off the build I'm going to install sound deadener in the doors and trunk at least and add a second battery. I'm planning on running 2 awg welding cable for power and doing the big 3. I want to use decent quality RCA's and run all new speaker wire to the components. I have a budget of around $1500. I absolutely do not want to skimp on things like wiring and sound deadener though. I'd rather only tear my car apart once for this project, if I'm going to save money in any area I'd rather it be in speakers and amps, as those can be replaced easily. I'm also not an audiophile and this will actually be my first time with component sets, I've had quite a few different coaxials but never components, so I'm sure this will be a significant upgrade over any system I've had in the past. I also listen mainly to different types of bass heavy electronic music and some rap, other stuff too but that's what I like to BANG! I basically like to be screamed at and beat up by music.

So far:

1. HU - $320
2. Components (2) - $210
3. 4 channel amp - $138
4. Subs (2) - $160
5. Mono amp - $170
6. Sub box - $170
7. Wiring - ~$100
8. Sound deadening - ~$150
9. Harness/mounting kit - ~$70
10. Misc - ~$50

Total = $1,538

Couple of questions:

1. I find that most builds on this forum use only one set of components in the front and usually coaxials in the rear, is there a disadvantage to using 2 sets of components? I just feel like when running a 4 channel amp it makes sense to have 2 matching sets.

2. I'm wanting to go with a box built buy ZENclosures that is specific to my model of car which is sealed and has ~1ft^3 and the recommended volume for these subs is 1.25ft^3, is that an issue I should be concerned about?

3. The components are rated at 60w rms @4 ohms and the 4 channel I'm considering does 100w rms @4 ohms. I'm guessing this should be ok as long as my gain is set modestly but due to my limited knowledge I generally try to match these pairings closely. Issue here?

Thoughts on parts? Suggestion on a way to save money perhaps? Let's flame the newbie? Any comments welcome, thanks for looking!

 

[ZombieHunter85]

I would try to integrate the 2 component sets up front and say screw the rear fill.

 

[ZombieHunter85]

Especially if it is going in a coupe. I run rear fill, and fade it in and out with my EQ makes no difference when you got a loud ass sub or two.

 

[BlueGhost]

That head unit has network mode, crossovers for high, mid, low. I would only use one set of components and run them active using network mode.

 

[few35t]

Especially if it is going in a coupe. I run rear fill, and fade it in and out with my EQ makes no difference when you got a loud ass sub or two.

Are you saying this because they share the same "enclosure"? (the rear speakers and the subs I mean)

That head unit has network mode, crossovers for high, mid, low. I would only use one set of components and run them active using network mode.

I'm not honestly sure what network mode is, I thought one of the points of using component speakers is they come with their own crossover to separate frequencies.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why I shouldn't use 2 sets. (or why it wouldn't be beneficial or worth it)



Edit: So does network mode mean I wouldn't use the supplied crossovers? One set of RCA's would be for the tweets and one would be for the mids?

I feel weird about that as it would take the fade functionality out right? Isn't the point of having 4 speakers around you so you can center yourself in the music and it not sound like it's in front/behind or to the side of you?

 

[edzyy]

1. Use 1 pair of components, not 2.
2. Bridge that amp down to 2 channels.
3. You might want to install those subs IB

 

[BlueGhost]

I'm not honestly sure what network mode is, I thought one of the points of using component speakers is they come with their own crossover to separate frequencies.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why I shouldn't use 2 sets. (or why it wouldn't be beneficial or worth it)



Edit: So does network mode mean I wouldn't use the supplied crossovers? One set of RCA's would be for the tweets and one would be for the mids?

I feel weird about that as it would take the fade functionality out right? Isn't the point of having 4 speakers around you so you can center yourself in the music and it not sound like it's in front/behind or to the side of you?

Yes, in network mode two channels would be used for tweeters and two channels for mids. The head unit crossovers would be used instead of the passive crossovers that came with the components. This way you can dial in the levels and crossover points for the tweeters and mids.

Your rear speakers aren't that important, for a good sound stage you want you mids and highs to be in front of you. I was suggesting not using rear speakers at all.

That head unit also allows for time alignment. This way you can adjust for the different distances between the listener and each speaker. It's very handy if your mid and tweeter aren't mounted close to each other. Like mid in the door and tweeter on the dash.

 

[Lycancatt]

I'm going to say something, and I mean no disrespect but I need to say it.

This site seems to have a one track mind about many things, ib subs, only one set of components in the front, go active or your a chump. I find this approach both annoying and pretty useless when the op has no need for the added complexity, is not an audiophile (his own words) and does not plan to compete. Its just frustrating that people add all the stuff in that's confusing to newcomers and potentially scares them off.

I would use the equipment you listed, except I'd go with the tsd matching coaxials for the back to make installation easier, honestly you will never hear a difference.

having more power on tap than the speaker is rated for is an excellent thing, just don't be silly with it.

put some poly fill into the sub box and it will make the subs think they are in a slightly larger box, negating the 1 cuft to 1.25 cuft issue.

class d amps as you've chosen are quite efficient, definitely do the big three but I don't see a need for a second battery at all.

 

[diy.phil]

+1 on everything Lycancatt said

 

[few35t]

1. Use 1 pair of components, not 2.
2. Bridge that amp down to 2 channels.
3. You might want to install those subs IB

I can bridge the amp and still run active? Also, that would be 300w rms x2, isn't that a bit much for 60w rms speakers?

Also, this is my first time hearing about IB subs, I did a quick google search and without too much digging it looks like it's just free air with the face of the subs in the cabin? I already do have the sub box I mentioned on the way and that seems like it would take a lot of fab work. The box and the head unit are the the only thing set in stone at this point.

Yes, in network mode two channels would be used for tweeters and two channels for mids. The head unit crossovers would be used instead of the passive crossovers that came with the components. This way you can dial in the levels and crossover points for the tweeters and mids.

Your rear speakers aren't that important, for a good sound stage you want you mids and highs to be in front of you. I was suggesting not using rear speakers at all.

That head unit also allows for time alignment. This way you can adjust for the different distances between the listener and each speaker. It's very handy if your mid and tweeter aren't mounted close to each other. Like mid in the door and tweeter on the dash.

Great info, thanks for the reply. I've actually been planning on mounting the tweeters in the covers for the bolts to the side-view mirror. I've seen other people do that, it looks clean and if I decide to revert to stock I can replace those on the cheap.

I'm going to say something, and I mean no disrespect but I need to say it.

This site seems to have a one track mind about many things, ib subs, only one set of components in the front, go active or your a chump. I find this approach both annoying and pretty useless when the op has no need for the added complexity, is not an audiophile (his own words) and does not plan to compete. Its just frustrating that people add all the stuff in that's confusing to newcomers and potentially scares them off.

I would use the equipment you listed, except I'd go with the tsd matching coaxials for the back to make installation easier, honestly you will never hear a difference.

having more power on tap than the speaker is rated for is an excellent thing, just don't be silly with it.

put some poly fill into the sub box and it will make the subs think they are in a slightly larger box, negating the 1 cuft to 1.25 cuft issue.

class d amps as you've chosen are quite efficient, definitely do the big three but I don't see a need for a second battery at all.

Glad to see a different opinion. I'm not an audiophile and the music I will be listening to is pretty focused, but who knows? This project could turn me into one. I'm sure that through this experience and what I'll learn on here I'll get more into it. I pretty much dive head first into anything I'm in to. I'll consider the coaxials if I decide to go that route and will look into the poly fill suggestion as well.

No need for a second battery though? In what I've listed I'm looking at 1600 rms wattage total, the amplifiers (and this is probably very noobish of me to mention) have 180 amps worth of fuses and my alt is only 120. I would love to not use one but I really don't want dimming and whatever issues may arise from overloading the electrical system.

One thing about only one set of components is that I could put some money toward some better ones. Maybe ones that handle a lot more juice? Closer to the 300w rms the 4 channel is capable of when bridged? Or at least 150w or so.

I also don't have to go with the subs. I like the amps at the price point so I'd like to stick with those. If it makes more sense to just get a better set of components and run those active and get some subs that like 1ft^3 of volume I can do that. I'm just chomping at the bit to get these things on the way!

 

[Lycancatt]

the subs you chose are a very fine woofer. I also think you'd be happy with the component speakers you chose as long as you don't expect a lot of bass out of them..but that's why you have subs right?

never limit yourself, start with your current plan and see what you think. find locals with different approaches both competitors and not, and listen a bit, your right to say you might end up going nuts down the road, and enjoying every minute of it.

 

[few35t]

the subs you chose are a very fine woofer. I also think you'd be happy with the component speakers you chose as long as you don't expect a lot of bass out of them..but that's why you have subs right?

never limit yourself, start with your current plan and see what you think. find locals with different approaches both competitors and not, and listen a bit, your right to say you might end up going nuts down the road, and enjoying every minute of it.

I just think they're kind of ugly lol. At that price point though who cares, I'll probably give them a shot the only thing I question is the ideal volume of a sealed enclosure thing, but I'm looking into poly fill now.

Update:

I actually have the AVH-X5700BHS on the way, same unit with just a couple extra features; mirrorlink (2 cameras), and HD radio. Maybe I can set the other camera up to avoid curbing my wheels when I park! Suggestion on a couple cheap cameras?

Also, both amps have been purchased. So sub box, amps, and HU all coming!

 

[few35t]

Do you all know anything about the RE Audio XXX6.5C seen here Re Audio XXX6 5c 6 1 2" 2 Way XXX Component 6 5" Car Stereo Speakers System 611892990517 | eBay? They're only $270, 150 w rms a piece, and 2 ohm, which is cool b/c the 4 channel does 150w rms x4 at 2 ohms. They look just, beastly. Maybe I should just go with a single component set in the front and give active a go! Wouldn't bee all Pioneer then, now I feel like I need to swap the subs too lol.

 

[BlueGhost]

Looks like your off to a good start.

For subs, you could look at Sundowns SD-2 12's, they are designed for 1 cu ft sealed enclosure. They also cost about twice as much as the Pioneers. The Pioneers should do well with a little poly fill.

You are correct about bridging the amp, it would only allow for 2 channels and wouldn't work for an active set up.

 

[BlueGhost]

Do you all know anything about the RE Audio XXX6.5C seen here Re Audio XXX6 5c 6 1 2" 2 Way XXX Component 6 5" Car Stereo Speakers System 611892990517 | eBay? They're only $270, 150 w rms a piece, and 2 ohm, which is cool b/c the 4 channel does 150w rms x4 at 2 ohms. They look just, beastly. Maybe I should just go with a single component set in the front and give active a go! Wouldn't bee all Pioneer then, now I feel like I need to swap the subs too lol.

If you want 2 ohm components, I would go with the 2 ohm ID CSX62 V2. They are right at $300, so not much more than the XXX6.5C.

 

[few35t]

Looks like your off to a good start.

For subs, you could look at Sundowns SD-2 12's, they are designed for 1 cu ft sealed enclosure. They also cost about twice as much as the Pioneers. The Pioneers should do well with a little poly fill.

You are correct about bridging the amp, it would only allow for 2 channels and wouldn't work for an active set up.

Those look nice, I'm likely to stick with the pioneers at their price point. I've been looking at some RE audio subs too which seem awesome but cost roughly twice as much for the ones I'm looking at too.

If you want 2 ohm components, I would go with the 2 ohm ID CSX62 V2. They are right at $300, so not much more than the XXX6.5C.

Those look nice too, I'll look into em.


I came accross these as well: NVX XSP6ACT 6 5" 2 Way x Series Active Component Car Audio Speaker System | eBay

NVX XSP6ACT 6.5" 2-Way X-Series Active Components, they don't come with a crossover, so I guess that saves some cost. At $260 they don't seem bad.


Edit: Question, I'll obviously need to run two sets of speaker wire to each door if I go active right?

 

[BlueGhost]

That NVX set should be nice too. They are made by SB acoustics, and nearly identical to the Arc Audio Black series that sell for three times a much.

Its based off of this SB woofer and tweeter.

You could buy the NVX tweeters and pair them with the SB woofers from madisound. That would save your about $50.

 

[few35t]

That NVX set should be nice too. They are made by SB acoustics, and nearly identical to the Arc Audio Black series that sell for three times a much.

Its based off of this SB woofer and tweeter.

You could buy the NVX tweeters and pair them with the SB woofers from madisound. That would save your about $50.

Great info and suggestion, that's something I could have never figured out on my own, this is why forums.

So many decisions, this is hard.

At this point I see 3 ways I can go with this:

1. Stick with my original plan except go with the components up front along with their passive crossovers and the coaxials in the rear deck.
(Negative here is that there are features of my HU I won't be able to utilize, $175)

2. Stick with the same components but nothing in the rear, and go active.
(I worry this just won't be loud enough for me, just two speakers only rated for 60w rms, $105)

3. Go with a higher end component up front that can handle more power, louder, and active. The 2 ohm route would even give me 150w per channel at my disposal.
(Definitely loud enough and active, but $270)

Options 1 and 2 are tempting for the price, plus, I can't exactly change the title of the thread. :blush: Having a really powerful set of components up front and active crossover is tempting too.

I don't know which route to go but I hope to make the decision tomorrow. I've got a lot of work to do once parts start coming in.

 

[Lycancatt]

didn't pioneer make a really nice highend component set, something with the model number of um.. some letters and 720? could go that root and still have an all pioneer build, they had glowing reviews a few years back.

 

[BlueGhost]

didn't pioneer make a really nice highend component set, something with the model number of um.. some letters and 720? could go that root and still have an all pioneer build, they had glowing reviews a few years back.

I believe that was the TS-C720PRS, I can't find them anymore. The TS-D1720C is still available. The TS-C720PRS was the more expensive Pioneer Premier version, versus the standard Pioneer TS-D1720C. I think one of the main differences between the two sets was the crossover, which wouldn't matter if they are being run active.