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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read the Tweeter Roundup, very interesting and helpful!

Now, I have a '91 GMC XtraCab fullsize pickup in which I want to have good SQ for personal enjoyment; modest budget, no competitions. I have a set of Morel Integra 5 coaxs (no seperate crossovers) installed in the lower front edge of the door. 4 channel amp; two channels for the coax's and two channels bridged for the sub.
While I am happy with the SQ of the speakers, the soundstage is at about chest heigth.

I need some advice about raising the stage to, hopefully, above the dash.
Being new at this, I've read numerous posts and realize that there is no hard and fast rules to achieve this. But adding a second set of tweeters seems to be one of the ways.

Any opinions on the ideas/questions I have are greatly appreciated!

1. Usher 9950's in the upper front part of the door.
2. Usher 9950's in the dash where the OEM 4x6 speakers were.
3. LPG 25nfa's in the A-pillars
4. Alpine Type X Ring Radiator's in the A pillars
5. CDT Upstage kit, replacing CDT tweeters with either LPG or Alpine in A pillar

I'm assuming that I would need some sort of filter if I didn't use the Upstage kit.


I have a good installer, but he is into SPL competition and is not as knowledgeable about the finer points of SQ set-ups.

Sorry about the long post, but thought it better than having multiple posts.

Again, thanks for any help you can offer!





:?
 

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Welcome!

I think the easiest way to get a higher stage is either properly installed tweeters in the kicks, or by placing a tweeter in the a-pillar or upper door.

I wouldn't bother running 2 tweets, just running 1. 2 tweets just complicates things unnecessarily.

My first choice would be Usher 9950 in the kicks, since it's such a great tweet and you can cross it low.

After that, the lpg or alpine type-x in the pillars or upper door would work great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks!

I appreciate your response.
I guess I should have mentioned in my post that I really want to try to keep this simple. I know everyone seems to love kicks but I don't think I want to go that route.
The problem with running only one set of tweeters is that the Integras are coax's and I would rather not modify them.
Perhaps I need to consider replacing them with components. There goes the modest budget install! :?
 

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You can go ahead and add a second set of tweets up high to raise the "ambiance" of the sound.

At the very least it would need to be crossed over high, say 10khz and attenuated so that the top end isn't too harsh. I'd find something cheap like the lpg's etc., something with a good top end dispersion beyond 10khz. You should also lowpass the coaxials at the same frequency 10khz+... but if you're trying to keep it simple its really not that necessary.
 

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other options...

Sometimes the pillar can leave the near side too far off axis to net a stage raise without width collapse, even with a tweet such as the LPG. I've always had better luck in the sail panel, it will raise the stage as well as add some width when attenuated properly, where as in the pillar, many times reflections will be your primary cue, and they are usually well inside the pillar. I've also always just crossed at 8k for convenience as radioshack carries 4.7uf caps, 2.2, and 1...though you can order the value you need at partsexpress.com or madisound.com.

To summarize, here are the results I've always gotten with these experiments..
Ambient tweet in the pillar = stage raised, pulled forward, but narrowed significantly on the near side (far side results are great)

Ambient tweet in the sail panel = stage raised, stage widened, pulled back slightly when in comparison to the pillar, but a better compromise over loss of stage width IMO.


Now, I know what your thinknig (not really so don't worry about it) what if I angle the tweet in the pillar so as not to be so off axis and stop the reflection from being my first imaging cue....you can. However, the fact remains that the tweeter is still 3 inches or so (my car its 4) further inside the vehicle than if it was flushed in the sail panel, so your imaging cues will still be well inside the vehicle. A good rule of thumb to go by is always mount the speakers as close the physical boundaries of the car for perceieved maximum dimension potential.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks!

I appreciate you responses!
Now that I'm back from Easter holiday I'll have some time to take a look at my options.

Eastcoast: Reading your posts in a similiar thread on Tempro is what got me thinking about the tweeter idea. Informative and thorough posts.

The design of the doors and dash in the truck creates problems with mounting on the door. There is no sail panel to speak of and it is covered by the angular dash which projects out almost 5" into the cabin. It's not a flush, rolled back dash as in late model cars and trucks. So even if I could mount the tweeter on it, it would be firing into the side of the dash.
I could mount the tweeters on the door just below the window but then they would only be about 8-9" in front of me, 11-12" below ear level, and 5-6" below the dash. I don't know how this would sound.

Mounting them on the A pillars would put them about 4" in from the doors but I would be able to raise them above the dash.

It would be nice to have the wide soundstage, but I would be happy to have the heigth. Right now it sounds like the vocals are coming from the center of the steering wheel.

Although I really enjoy the SQ of the Integra's I'm not opposed to new component speakers, but wonder if I wouldn't have the same tweeter placement problem.

The quest goes on!
:wink:
 

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Pics....

Is it possible for you to get a pic of the area? That would help a great deal...

Also, if you don't mind cutting, there is always options for tweets, you can almost always get a perfect sized holesaw from home depot for under $5, mount the tweeter where ever you want and it will still look nice. What I've done in the past and its come out very nice is wrap the tweet in acoustic cloth that matches the vehicle color theme, looks supertight, even if mounted in the dash somewhere, and if you're worried about resale value, it really won't bring the price down if it looks nice...I'll throw a pic up on my SD page of what I'm talking about, it will be the last pic.

Also, if you can't get a pic of that area of your car, post the year and model of the car and maybe I can find one. I've been sick as heck the past few days so I don't have much to do :cry:
 

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Pic...

Its up, its a bit hard to see but you will see what I mean in the far side pillar. Just wrapped acoustic cloth around it, pulled it through, tucked the tweet into place, them trimmed off the excess cloth....looked great, but width collapsed on the near side due to reflections.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the picture of your install. It looks very much like what I could do in my truck. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow, I have to recharge the battery in the camera tonight.

But to give you an idea, in the truck there is a "hood" over the instrument panel as in your van. But in the truck it appears to be higher and more angular than in your van. Instead of rounded over on the sides, as in the van, it is squared off on the sides.

I bought the truck, a 1991 GMC Sierra Extended Cab, new in the Fall of 1990 and have since put about 200,000 miles on it so I'm not worried in the least about resale value. I kept the truck when I bought a new car a few years ago. Once you have a truck it is hard to imagine being without one, hauling or moving things is a snap.

I wanted to do the budget install in the truck because I drive it almost as much as the car and enjoy listening to good music while driving. Just wish I had upgraded a long time ago.
Also, the truck is sort of my "test-bed" before I tackle a new system in the car this summer.

I'm "all-thumbs" when it comes to this type of project, so I have a talented young installer who did a very nice, clean install of the system. He is active in SPL competitions and readily admits that he doen't have the experience when it comes to fine tuning an SQ install. If I can come up with the ideas though, he can implement them.






:)
 

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ambient tweet...

My sub is in the center console as well....

Looking at your truck it doesn't appear that you have the extra thick pillar like I have...I gain 4 inches of physical width with the tweets flushed in the sail panel...you will just have to make a decision on whether or not that is worth it for you. Mount them where ever you like, just avoid areas where it will reflect of the glass very quickly as the reflections will most likely ruin anything good you have going for you.
 

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These helped raise my sound stage up to about the middle of my windshield from chest hieght. I cross them over at 10000 hz and run them off the back of my h/u , they probably get 20 watts rms . Not only did it raise my stage height it also gave my highs that nice detailed shimmer and sparkle once they were properly adjusted and broke in. Hope this helps .

Dayton ND20FA-6 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter | Parts-Express.com
 

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wow a mod's mom. and commenting on a 5 1/2 year old thread like it was yesterday.

spmpdr, you cross them at 10khz? hard to imagine any tweet not sounding good crossed that high.
 
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