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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, it's another new guy...very nice forum you have here...thanks for letting me join.

I want to upgrade the sub I have in my 2001 Dakota Quad Cab. Here's my current set-up:

JVC KW-NX7000 Dvd/Nav
Hifonics/Zues Zxi8006 (110Wx4 + 300Wx1)@2-Ohms
Infinity 60.9cs (2-Ohm 6.5" components)
Infinity 62.9i (2-Ohm 6.5 rears)
SoloBaric L5 8" (dual 4-Ohm) in sealed .4 cu/ft box

I know, one 8" sub, what was I thinking? Well, I wanted to keep all of the backseat as usable as possible. So, I build an elaborate box (see pic below) that sits on the middle hump that still allows both rear seats to fold up and down and also allows the front arm rest to fold back. I also didn't think I wanted a lot of bass and for awhile it was enough. But now I want more.

The question before me now is, if I want to try a find a way to mount one larger 10-12" sub or possibly just double up with a 2nd 8" sub? I want to keep the truck as stock as possible with as much rear user space as possible. Any new sub design will require a new box, but I have a design in mind if I would go with the two 8's or possibly one or two 10’s. I would remove the center consol/armrest and build a new box to replace the consol that goes from the front to the edge of the back seat and then remount the armrest back on top. Sub(s) would down fire.

I am not sure how much difference there will be between the two 8's or two 10’s vs a 12" for example. I know the 12" will put out lower freq and the two 10’s would be louder than the single 12, not sure how two 8’s would stack up?? I originally picked the Solobaric due to its small box requirement and for an 8" it does do rather well. I have been reading some reviews on good quality subs and the Polk SR DCV’s have caught my attention.

The amp now pushes 300W @ 2-Ohms on the mono channel to the 8" sub wired in parallel. I would probably have to go with an entirely new amp setup in order to power two of anything or a 12” although it might do alright pushing a 10”.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

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Good looking work!

I can tell you plenty about center console boxes for Dakota QCs, as I have built several different ones for my '02.

If you are willing to use the space over the hump, I would recommend either a ported 12" or a pair of sealed 10" in that space (including the armrest area).

If you were inclined to just replace the center console/armrest with a box, it's possible to squeeze a single ported 10" in that space, and it definitely would make a noticeable difference from the sealed L5.

I can post a bunch of pics later to show how this would look (they're on another PC)

Some things I have tried, all downfiring between the front seats, with the back seat remaining completely functional:

Diamond CM310, ported @ 37hz (very loud)
JL Audio 8W7, ported @ 35 hz (low & clean, not as loud as 10" ported)
ID8v.3, sealed (fantastic esque, moderate output)
TC Sounds 10", sealed (comparable to 8W7)
TypeR 10, sealed (meh, it was OK)
Kicker 8L7, sealed (honestly, the worst of the bunch - sloppy and not very loud)
JL 8W6, sealed (poor little sub - it tried, but couldn't keep up with ID8)
JL 8W3v2, sealed (a little better than 8W6, still out of its league though)
Dayton HF8, sealed (in process, I'm hoping it can beat the ID8)

All of these were running about 200~250 RMS, with the exception of the 8W7, which was powered by a 500/1.

I've only ever tried one sub at a time, but like I said, you can fit a a pair of 10" in there, I've seen it done in other trucks. I have also been tempted to face the sub firing towards the back of the cab, but I can't because the cone would get too abused (even with a heavy duty grill).

If I had it to do over, the single ported 10" is probably the way I would go if I was going to remove the armrest. That option offered the best combination of SQ & output IMO. If you wanted to keep the factory look, then replacing the small section of front seat under the armrest with a sealed 8" is really the only option, with the possible exception of a pair of 6", which is one thing that never looked like it would be worth the effort.

Lemme know if you are interested in pics & good luck with the upgrade :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Chaos! Yes, I would definitely like to see pics of your different set-ups.

I'll admit I have only built sealed enclosures as people always said it was hard to build a ported box that sounds good at different levels with different types of music (which I listen to everything..country, rap, pop, rock, latin, etc). However, the more I read on here the more I see how that view is just probably due to a lack of knowledge. If someone would help me along I would be willing to give ported a try.

So, I guess I am trying to decide between 2 sealed 10's or a ported 10. You seem to strongly support the ported 10. How would it compare to the 2 sealed 10's in your opinion? I am open to using the whole length from the front cup holder back to the edge of the back seat but I would prefer to be able to remount the armrest on the new enclosure as I use it a lot.

An electronic tech at work who is also into audio says the 300 watts I have would be able to push two 10's depending on the subs I choose. Which brings me to the question of which subs. From reading different reviews, the tendency is towards higher powered subs. I had kind of gotten interested in the Polk SR DCV’s but they would need about 300w each.
 

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Personally, I'd stick with sealed. I'm sure the ported nazi's will disagree :D, but working with the limited amount of space you have, I think a sealed is the way to go. As far as sub's are concerned, I'd take a serious look at Boston G2's. They are very inexpensive, can operate in as little as .5 cf, and work off very little power. I had a single 10" G2 powered by a 300 watt Rockford, and it bumped amazingly well. Much harder than it's size and power would lead you to believe. It also sounded great while doing it. But alas it's sitting on the shelf, being replaced by 2 12" RE SE's. No one's immune to the upgrade bug. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The more I read the more I am unsure what direction to go. My goal is to get a decent spl and sq. I haven't done anything to dampen the cab so I don't want to go to overboard but I don't want to be disappointed either.

I was reading another post of a Ram quad:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/13527-dodge-ram-install-thread-10.html

Here are some other subs I have looked at:
JL 10W7-3 (expensive)
Orion HCCA 10.4
Boston G2 or G5 10"
IDQ 10-V3D4
RE SR10 DVC
ID Max 12D4 v3
Dayton 10" RSS265HF-4

Still having a debate in my head about staying with my Hifonics amp and using a single 10" rated for it or going with a dedicated amp for a larger setup but space is going to be tight and I want to keep cost reasonable.
 

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Here some subs I have looked at:
JL 10W7-3
Orion HCCA 10.4
Boston G5
IDQ 10-V2D4

Still having a debate in my head about staying with my Hifonics amp and using a single 10" rated for it or going with a dedicated amp for a larger setup but space is going to be tight and I want to keep cost reasonable.
One thing to keep in mind is the depth of the sub. If mounting under the seat you will need to leave some room for sub excursion, which eats up airspace. In my Silverado, I had to raise the seat 1.25", which just barely allowed enough clearance for the sub, and even then I had to mount the sub from the underneath instead of dropping it in topwise to allow enough room. 10's would definitely make it a little easier. I'm telling ya, don't discount those G2's so quickly.
 

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Definitely give the 10" G2s a listen, especially if you're leaning toward sealed since space is a concern. They really are impressive if you're looking for decent output that still sounds great. And they aren't super picky about ultra clean power (class D like your hifonics amp will work just fine) like the older ProSeries subs were. The proseries sounded awesome in the right enclosure, but the normal THD from a class D amp would kill them if you were feeding them a lot of power. The G2s really are pretty impressive for what they are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I just found some info on AE (Acoustic Elegance) and their newer AV12-H for smaller enclosures. It is supposed to outperform the IDQ subs.

I was taking a closer look at my truck tonight, especially the spacing of the seats. It appears to me, with some modification to the rail mounts that I could move each seat towards the door, creating some additional space if needed.

So, maybe running one 12" sub would be the way to go.

But, the output of two 10's may be better. Of the speakers listed above or others which would be best suited foremost for sq but also have good spl?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So now I am trying to decide between two 10's sealed, or a ported 12...I think.

Ahhh....decisions.
 

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I'll get some pics tomorrow.

Presuming your '01 has the same seat brackets as mine does, I can tell you that an 11" wide box is the absolute maximum I could fit between the seats on the stock brackets. If you want to mod them, then I would definitely go for a sealed 12".

Otherwise, a pair of sealed 10" is still possible, or for that matter, a pair of sealed 8's. Like I said, I found a ported 10" to be adequate for me, but it can be tricky to fold the port into the box, so it is a bit more daunting. If you can fab that box for your 8L5 though, I'm sure that it wouldn't be a problem for ya'

Regardless, I would say that 300w ought to be plenty for just about any sub(s) that you choose that could fit in the space.




Personally, I think 300 watts is plenty of power for one or even two subs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks Chaos

Maybe I will see by your pics but what do you mean by "folding" the port into the box?

As you can tell by my ramblings above I am having a hard time figuring out what to do.

I like what you said about just using my 300 watts. I just kept reading reviews on some of these great SQ subs and for the most part many indicate that they need 500-1000w to make them sound really good. For now, I probably will just keep my amp and see how it goes. I also don't want to get too carried away as then I may have to dump more in to upgrade the stock battery and alt. Right now I am running 4ga wire from the stock battery.

If I do upgrade I will probably find a JL 300/4 and 500/1 which not be much more than I have now, just a bigger split to the sub.

Am I correct in thinking that a ported setup may need less watts to sound as good as a comparable sealed s/u?

Do you have any recommendations for two 10's or one 12 from the list I mentioned above? I was thinking of the Dayton's or the RE's if I go two 10's or either a Boston G2/G5 or the AE AV12H for a single 12. Does anyone have experience with AE?

Thanks a bunch!
 

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Hopefully these will give you some ideas. When I say "folding" the port, I'm talking about the shape of a slot-type port, like in the box for the 8W7 above.

At one point, I did have a 300/4 & 500/1 combo, and although those amps both fit very nicely on the back of the cab behind the seats and make plenty of power, my charging system couldn't keep up with them for very long so I cut back by about half.

I know popular opinion around here is to always use as much power as possible - and in principle I agree completely - but if your CS cannot support the current demand, it won't do you any good.

As for what to use, just about anything will work if you build the right box. So much effort is spent in pursuit of finding speakers with the "best" specs, but at the end of the day the enclosure has as much to do with it as anything.

If you have the time and don't mind sacrificing the resources, the first thing I would do in your situation is to try building a ported bx for the 8L5 which could be placed between the front seats. If that doesn't do it, then I would try a ported 10", and as a last resort a pair of sealed 10's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the pics!

Did you sew up the vinyl yourself? It looks pretty darn good. What's your secret? Also, since I am new to porting I am unfamiliar with how a rectangle port is configured on the inside of the box. In yours above, is there a tube or something attached to the hole on the inside?

I think I have pretty well decided not to keep the solo baric which leads me down the path of the 10's.

So, the way you ranked the builds has me curious. Do you think 2 sealed 10's will be too much or what was your reason for rating one 10 vented over two sealed?

I seen reference to winisd, so I am giving it a try. I loaded in the parameters of the Dayton, not sure what it all means, but seems it would perform well vented or sealed.

Thanks.
 

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Yeah, the vinyl is all custom sewn. The secret is that I have access to commercial upholstery facilities.

Here are some profile views of the vent designs:






The first two were for an 8W7, and they sounded pretty good. The third one was for a Diamond CM310, and although I don't have pics of the finished box, that was the most successful ported design I have tried thus far from an SPL perspective.

If you are sure that you want new subs, I don't mean to discourage you; keeping the Kicker was just a thought.
As for which option to choose, I figure that a single vented 10" is going to be less expensive than a pair, and with the power you have available you are likely to get optimum performance out of a single sub. If you go with a sealed pair, I still think you have enough power to run them, but maybe not enough to really push them to their maximum potential. Of course, that depends entirely on the specific subs.

WinISD is a useful tool for generating port dimensions, but remember that the graphs it draws do not reflect the in car environment. They are only a theoretical free field estimate, so don't get too hung up on them. Check out the documentation that comes with the app - much of what the graphs mean is explained there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I noticed the 2 top boxes are tuned to 35hz. How do know what to tune a box to? When you plug a speaker into winsid it gives you a hz and then you can click on optimize to get a box size. However, the manufacture sometimes lists a suggested volume and frequency as well but doesn't always match that of what winisd gives.

I hear what you are saying about comparisons in winisd, but since it compares all subs to the same parameters would it still not give you a basis for comparison? At least to determine what freq the subs can produce at certain dbs? I just wanting to be able to use as much info to make a decision.

I found out I am limited on subs I can choose for a 2-sub setup as my amp only will do 300w if at 2 ohm which means I would have to pick dual 2 ohm subs wired in series to get a 2ohm load. Dayton and RE only appear to make 4 ohm units. So, I may be going more towards a single ported 10".

Thanks.
 

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It depends on the acoustic characteristics of your particular vehicle, and the type of sound you prefer. Suffice it to say, tuning anywhere between 30 ~ 40hz will generally yield acceptable SQ, and effectively couple with your cabin gain in the lowest octaves to increase low end extension.

Of course, you can use the program to compare many other aspects of performance besides frequency response and SPL, so keep that in mind as well.

I'm not sure why you would be limited to using dual-two ohm subs? A pair of SVC 4 ohm subs in parallel would also be two ohms nominal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes, I stand corrected as I thought there was a performance difference between single and dual vc's but I now understand there is not. So...

I was using winsid to plot two RE SR10D2 DVC 2ohm subs in a vented enclosure tuned to 35hz. Winsid wants to initially set the volume to 1.5cuft but RE tech page says that each sub should get 1cuft (2cuft total).

So my question is, using winsid, the correct process is to lock in the frequency to 35hz, change the volume to 2cuft and then see what the port size it gives me?

It appears the RE subs require little space and might make for a really good setup. What is your honest opinion of them?

For comparison I was looking at the Dayton RSS265HF-4 SVC 4ohm

Specs are here:
Technical Specifications - RE AUDIO

http://daytonaudio.com/files/specs/RSS265HF-4_specsheet.pdf

Thanks so much!
 

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The first thing to do is to determine exactly how much space you are going to use in the truck, so you know how much volume you will have to work with in the box.

Remember that the volume WinISD gives you is a net figure. You must add the displacement of the woofers, the port & internal braces in order to determine the actual gross volume.

Once you know that, you can alter the tuning & the port size to see what the freq response graph looks like. Of course, you will have to recalculate all of your dimensions each time you change a parameter. Keep in mind that a pair of 10" subs would need at least a 4" diameter port, or two 3" ports, or a slot port of comparable surface area.

I only know RE by reputation, I've never used any of their subs. From the looks of it, the RE series might be a better match for your application & the power range you are dealing with. If you think you might upgrade your amp at some point, then I would go with the SR instead.
Dayton, on the other hand, I use frequently and have always had good results. As a matter of fact, I'm currently building a new box in my truck for a ref series HF8. If you're interested, I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
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