DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

221 - 233 of 233 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,549 Posts
We ended up going a different direction,
I got it to work, and it would crash. I got the 1st measurements done and it crashed
I was trying to load crossovers and gave up. It just would boot me off

John had informed me that the presets are eq only so that along with the crashing
And the hourly rate we decided go with a minidsp , it does what the guy wants
By having presets that can turn off channels, and has Dirac live so it’s still a win win
And he has another device upstream also that has tons of fir ability so any residual group delay can be dealt with quite easily. I promised I wouldn’t spill the beans, but think million tap filters if one wanted. (Jel)

I am super impressed with the TDA software, that works so good. Way better than I thought it would I am definitely thinking about buying a copy for me.
I like tda very much. So much easier than reading impulses.

I wish I coulda heard it tho. Dang it. And this guy will have more fun with the mini being all his amps work off one dsp instead of having the apl and that another dsp for his rears.
And not having to worry about fir delay between the dsps . That makes tuning no fun, and if the apl has impulse offsets longer than 20.21ms the rears just wouldn’t have worked anyway.

On the 1012 tho the crossovers have a cutoff frequency for both the sides of the crossover that can’t be altered? Meaning, if you cross the sub at 100 the mid is 100 and no way to enter it diffrent forced complimentary crossover.

Makes me wonder if he does forward-backward filtering on that, it would give better stopband attinuation , the inband amplitude would carry the error which could be eq if I remember reading about backward running fir. Possibly saves taps too....so where he wanted overlapping speakers wouldn’t have had to do the peq option on crossovers. Not that that’s horrible, just one more thing that made this not the best option for this install , although would have still worked in a roundabout way. Just seemed like a lot of things to manage and work just to turn off a speaker pair or change a crossover slope or time align to another dsp.
But I digress,

Very curious about this dsp tho. Still has a lot of good things going on, for a traditional multi-way it could be one of the best. Definitely top 3 in my book

Another day I’ll get to work on one. Maybe I’ll buy one for a project.


I think the install drive was messed up I don’t know. But it all worked out well and worked out better for this particular setup



The defined/locked in crossover junctions is a good thing. The APL1012 corrects each drivers response to perfectly (or as close as can be achieved) align its acoustic response with that electrical filter so you have essentially beautifully aligned crossovers between drivers. There would be no reason to underlap or overlap if you have perfectly summed response. Just use the EQ for that ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
I ran some REW sweep through mine to look at the phase response around the crossovers, it's REALLY cool to see perfectly flat phase through the crossover. If you use a LR crossover instead, you get the predictable phase shift. But if you then turn on Group Delay correction, the flat is perfectly flat again. I'll post up some screenshots tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,549 Posts
I ran some REW sweep through mine to look at the phase response around the crossovers, it's REALLY cool to see perfectly flat phase through the crossover. If you use a LR crossover instead, you get the predictable phase shift. But if you then turn on Group Delay correction, the flat is perfectly flat again. I'll post up some screenshots tonight.

Yes I was surprised by that too. Also show the before and after FR correction of two drivers at the crossover point. It's quite good. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,366 Posts
The defined/locked in crossover junctions is a good thing. The APL1012 corrects each drivers response to perfectly (or as close as can be achieved) align its acoustic response with that electrical filter so you have essentially beautifully aligned crossovers between drivers. There would be no reason to underlap or overlap if you have perfectly summed response. Just use the EQ for that ;)

Steve he had like duplicate channels , horns and tweeters for example ,
Definitely don’t want to cross horns at 3k

And that’s not all. There were a lot of speakers installed.
So that was my original point, like 2 seperate full systems of speakers in the front of this car plus all kinds of rears.

Although in fir crossovers, you don’t have to have the same frequency either, you can actually build filters that overlap and they sound amazing.
(Remember Steve, it’s linear phase so it don’t matter. The “crossover” is a amplitude only thing, all you do is make sure the driver is flat before applying the crossover and it playes perfect in time with the inband. The whole “crossover” mentality gets thrown out the window really. It opens a lot of doors

You should listen to a overlapping filter , bring the speakers down like 3 or 6 dB so your output isn’t doubled. Than for an oactave and let them interact and blend at -6db(I think that’s where pos puts them) , than shut them down fast like 48db is nice.
You can find them in rephase, there’s a whole bunch of unique filter designs , there one oactave overlapping, 1/2 oactave , 2 oactave , Ramionds told me you can use rephase (I never got that far)

He said the .fir ad .wav are the same and apl will read both

So if it’s 24bit you would export 24bitLpCM.wav in rephase
Throw it in a bank (oops I mean unit not bank) and enjoy.

But in that instance you get the blending than steep slopes.
So the outband interaction between speakers is almost non existent and the spekEkers are a oactave (or whatever) away so bye bye crossover interaction.
It’s like my most favorite filter for a tweeter or a horn to a mid.
I don’t care much for them in the LF I like plain old LR4 or LR8

Check it out tho ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,897 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,366 Posts

Oooh yes yes. lol
I remember now. Man I used to watch wwf (e) like every episode
Back in the day , I can’t believe I forgot that.
That was before super h came on the scene if I remember right
That was the good ole days with Andre the giant and rick flare, and the hulk

Wasn’t Vince McMahon a wrestler (actor) also back than
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,366 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
I'll never look like that, I scared my hairline away a long time ago! :p

Here are a couple REW files to look at.

Index of /APL

The no loopback file is what I saw the other day when I was looking at things. I wanted to test delay through the unit as I fiddled with the crossovers, and it turned up some interesting phase stuff. Should I just ignore the phase in the loopback sweeps?

Tomorrow I'll toss the unit into by bedroom system and take some measurements of the actual audio using these crossovers. That system is a TV, a low end Yamaha receiver, some Acoustic Research bookshelf speakers, and a pair of W15GTI's running off a Crown XLS1002.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
Well after my 1012 sitting in the closet for over a year, finally had the opportunity to get installed!

Being that I have a 7" CarPC, the windows 10 resolution was giving me fit getting the GUI to work without crashing everytime. Finally found a fix by using "overide high dpi" option in the C5 exe properties. Still slight scaling issue, but very useable and no crashes. Also, for anyone having program installation issues, ensure using "Administrator" privilege, also to install into the root level of your drive, C: or a flash drive. Might save you headaches. Also once you install the program, you must send Raimonds the siteID file so he can make and send your License file.

Anyway, the C5 GUI is not too complicated, once you get to tinkering around, theres really not much to figure out. Its layed out well in three simple tabs (there are a couple other tabs, but they are very limited to use). The downside, some of the buttons are not explained in the instructions, and for a basic amateur like me its a little intimidating on why/how/when to use. But thats what the DIYMA community is for, and of course Raimonds is very helpful.

I have not had any time yet to measure etc, but set basic crossovers and got music playing just to know I could. Will spend some time another day working on the tuning.


Question for those with experience, I am using:

Sub (1 way)
Midbass (2way)
Midrange (3way)
Tweeter (4way)


So in crossover I have:

Number of ways= 4

f1/2= 60 (sub/midbass)
f2/3= 300 (midbass/midrange)
f3/4= 3500 (midrange/tweeters)
f4/5= ???

Not sure what I put here as I don't want to cap my tweeters? Do I just put 20,000? But I think only lets me input up to 18,000?


Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
Anyone with the 1012 using optical have any trouble when turning volume down to 0 (zero)? If I mute or turn to 0, the audio cuts off and nothing when I turn volume up. I have to physically unplug the optical cable and plug back in. Im assuming its some sort of signal sensing, and at 0 must turn off the optical...

my old Mosconi 6to8v8 I believe had a button checked that kept optical on no matter what.. never had this issue. I dont see a comparable solution in the settings anywhere.

I am using volume control from my steering wheel & carPC, not the volume knob included with 1012.

Thanks for any help in advance
 
221 - 233 of 233 Posts
Top