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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been doing a ton of searches and many people claim the Dynaudio's crossovers to be exceptionally inefficient, and ineffective for delivering a high level of perfomance. The words "suck", and "absolutely horrible" are often used in these posts. People say they feed the crossovers 300+ watts just to get any type of dynamics from the components.

I have the 360 x-over with the dyn 360 component set. I'm collecting amps as good deals come up in anticipation of needing to go active, but I would really rather keep it as simple as possible for weight savings. Install simplicity is important as there is not a lot of room in the car, and I want everything hidden.

Has anyone run their dyn's passive, tried active, and gone passive again? Can you describe your experience? Was it THAT big of a deal? Did running more power through passive x-overs level out the playing field vs. active?

I realize playing around and testing for myself will end any speculation for my application. However while my car is being built, I'm not able to install and test just yet. I'm hoping this thread will at least give me a better starting point. ie: if I'm just kidding myself that I would be happy using the passive x-overs, then I'll get the bit one or zapco, and be ready to do it the right way the first time. I would like to avoid that route if possible as it is a sports car, and again: weight/simplicity are a factor.
 

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my opinion - with dyns it's better to use their own crosses
I use to modify cross for 360 kit to work in bi-amp mode
separate two amps channels for mw160 and separate two for mid/hi
this works better them one amp for everything
four ch amp is not bigger or heavier them 2ch
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Denis. Too bad you are in Russia, or I would have you mod my x-overs. How did it compare to running with active crossovers?
 

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Thanks Denis. Too bad you are in Russia, or I would have you mod my x-overs. How did it compare to running with active crossovers?
I can send you pics of my mods
only high priced pro audio crosse can compare to good passive cross
active is useful on very high levels - such as subs
also if you need time alignment
I compared active cross from alpine up to 900, pionner up to 9 (exclude it), and active crosses in the amps such as audison, xetec,
dyns are made for passive cross networks - look at their home flagship
I have another car (minivan) with 362 kit and active 3 way from alpine,
passive in celica is better in terms of sound integrity and phase correct
 

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Hi denis. Can the 242 crossovers be modified, is it alot of work to do, maybe you could tell us with some pictures with it. Highly appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I can send you pics of my mods
only high priced pro audio crosse can compare to good passive cross
active is useful on very high levels - such as subs
also if you need time alignment
I compared active cross from alpine up to 900, pionner up to 9 (exclude it), and active crosses in the amps such as audison, xetec,
dyns are made for passive cross networks - look at their home flagship
I have another car (minivan) with 362 kit and active 3 way from alpine,
passive in celica is better in terms of sound integrity and phase correct
Some pics/info would be most appreciated. Would running the MW170 actively band passed, and just running the stock 360 passive crossover with only the midrange and tweeter connected accomplish the same thing? It seems like an easy/effective way to go, unless something bad happens to the crossover network without a midbass connected to it.
 

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Hi denis. Can the 242 crossovers be modified, is it alot of work to do, maybe you could tell us with some pictures with it. Highly appreciate it.
I don't have any picture of 240 or 242 cross cause I've sell the 240 kit with my camry
It wasn't difficult to modify them : cut two wires on the board and solder new contact for another amp in
I'll post pics of 360 kit cross, guess it'll be helpful
 

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Some pics/info would be most appreciated. Would running the MW170 actively band passed, and just running the stock 360 passive crossover with only the midrange and tweeter connected accomplish the same thing? It seems like an easy/effective way to go, unless something bad happens to the crossover network without a midbass connected to it.
as I said I'll post the pics little bit later
there will be no problem with the cross -in case not connecting the midbass
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for your help.
 

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I've been doing a ton of searches and many people claim the Dynaudio's crossovers to be exceptionally inefficient, and ineffective for delivering a high level of perfomance. People say they feed the crossovers 300+ watts just to get any type of dynamics from the components.
I don't think it is just the fault of the crossover. Dynaudio drivers in general seem to like power given the large voice coils. The 360 crossover is basically 1st order for the midrange and midbass and 2nd order for the tweeter...so it is not like there are a ton of components in there compared to other high end 3-way sets that have 3rd and 4th order crossovers throughout.

I mean......generally speaking....just about any passive three-way set needs a healthy 150-250 watts a side to generate some life and realism. Now take the big coil Dyns, and 200-300 Watts a side seem to be right at home. So....

You can always go simple, 2-way set + small sub + 3 or 5 ch amp if you don't want to crowd your sports car with gear. However, if you are the type that believe that SPORTS CAR + AWESOME SOUND SYSTEM go better then FAMILY SEDAN (Remember to leave room for the baby and kids stuff :)) + AWESOME SOUND SYSTEM then go for it. IMO, nothing goes better with a nice sports car like a nice sound system. Add a stage 1 or stage 2 performance kit to the ride , loose 15-20lbs, and ride by yourself if the weight of the sound system bothers you. :D But there are other ways to save weight:

Use Baltic birch for your sub enclosure to save weight, run a lightweight single sub vs. two large and heavy subs, run light and small amps like the JL Audio HD for example.

If you plan to add a second amp for a bi-amped passive then why not just go all the way? Add a 75-100 watt x 4 amp for the Tweets and mids and a 150-200 watt x 2 for the midbasses and add some processing to tame that 4-way system.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't think it is just the fault of the crossover. Dynaudio drivers in general seem to like power given the large voice coils. The 360 crossover is basically 1st order for the midrange and midbass and 2nd order for the tweeter...so it is not like there are a ton of components in there compared to other high end 3-way sets that have 3rd and 4th order crossovers throughout.

I mean......generally speaking....just about any passive three-way set needs a healthy 150-250 watts a side to generate some life and realism. Now take the big coil Dyns, and 200-300 Watts a side seem to be right at home. So....

You can always go simple, 2-way set + small sub + 3 or 5 ch amp if you don't want to crowd your sports car with gear. However, if you are the type that believe that SPORTS CAR + AWESOME SOUND SYSTEM go better then FAMILY SEDAN (Remember to leave room for the baby and kids stuff :)) + AWESOME SOUND SYSTEM then go for it. IMO, nothing goes better with a nice sports car like a nice sound system. Add a stage 1 or stage 2 performance kit to the ride , loose 15-20lbs, and ride by yourself if the weight of the sound system bothers you. :D But there are other ways to save weight:

Use Baltic birch for your sub enclosure to save weight, run a lightweight single sub vs. two large and heavy subs, run light and small amps like the JL Audio HD for example.

If you plan to add a second amp for a bi-amped passive then why not just go all the way? Add a 75-100 watt x 4 amp for the Tweets and mids and a 150-200 watt x 2 for the midbasses and add some processing to tame that 4-way system.
I definitely agree that sports car + great sound go together. :D

That said, I am keeping an eye on weight added overall. I've shed weight in other ways where I can.

If I'm understanding you, the passive x-over doesn't "suck" much power vs. active. Either way you flip it the Dyn's need a ton of power active or passive.
 

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There's two parts to the Dynaudio story. First part is that, yes their crossovers are "bad", second part of the equation is that Dynaudio speakers need an amplifier with a high ampere output, not watts and unfortunately, most guys are stuck in the world of "watts".
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There's two parts to the Dynaudio story. First part is that, yes their crossovers are "bad", second part of the equation is that Dynaudio speakers need an amplifier with a high ampere output, not watts and unfortunately, most guys are stuck in the world of "watts".
Interesting. What amps would you call high ampere, and would go well with the Dyns-passively or actively?
 

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I know that many people here hate passives.

I made my own passives for the Dyne System 240.

- foil inductors

- upgraded caps

No notch filter nor series resistor in this case.

6dB/octave LP (series inductor), 12dB/octave HP

Measured impedance curve of both drivers and selected value of Z @ 3K, used that in my circuit calcs.

Found it to sound noticeably better than stock xover, so I never ended up putting in any series resistance versions as I originally intended.

So FWIW, I've improved upon the passive xover with the same drivers.
 

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There's two parts to the Dynaudio story. First part is that, yes their crossovers are "bad", second part of the equation is that Dynaudio speakers need an amplifier with a high ampere output, not watts and unfortunately, most guys are stuck in the world of "watts".
For any given voltage, more watts out = more amps pulled. They don't have Ohm's Law in Taiwan?
 

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Maybe I didn't explain myself well. My interpretation of amperes is meant to describe the headroom that certain amplifiers are capable of. And this "headroom" is mostly attributed to the amplifiers design. And as to Ohm's law, it doesn't take into consideration clipping...that's why amplifiers stamped with their 1000watt badge is clipping at 10 true watts. Ever heard 10 true watts....it's loud and with a well designed amp, it'll drive speakers and do it well.
Stage7, you could take a look at an older Sounstream 10.0...wouldn't touch anything new by Soundstream but the 10.0 may give you some good results. If your budget allows, consider some tube amps made by Milbert or a cheaper way to go would be an older Planet Audio HVT. Your Dyn's would be singing. Stage7, also consider VP electricity's suggestion of custom made passives....but get ready to have your head ripped on this forum for mentioning anything that's not active cause all you'll get here is the "copy and paste" line from the internet about time alignment, imaging and how many watts are being robbed by your passive crossovers....it's always the same line. And as the "know BETTER" line...I wouldn't know if we did, but we know enough to throw away the passive crossovers that come with the Dyn's, we also know enough about how incredible a custom made passive performs with Black Gate caps or Kimber Kaps and other quality parts. And we definately have a respect for active crossovers but we choose were to utilize it, and it's definately not driving our tweeters or mid-range.
Peace!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Maybe I didn't explain myself well. My interpretation of amperes is meant to describe the headroom that certain amplifiers are capable of. And this "headroom" is mostly attributed to the amplifiers design. And as to Ohm's law, it doesn't take into consideration clipping...that's why amplifiers stamped with their 1000watt badge is clipping at 10 true watts. Ever heard 10 true watts....it's loud and with a well designed amp, it'll drive speakers and do it well.
Stage7, you could take a look at an older Sounstream 10.0...wouldn't touch anything new by Soundstream but the 10.0 may give you some good results. If your budget allows, consider some tube amps made by Milbert or a cheaper way to go would be an older Planet Audio HVT. Your Dyn's would be singing. Stage7, also consider VP electricity's suggestion of custom made passives....but get ready to have your head ripped on this forum for mentioning anything that's not active cause all you'll get here is the "copy and paste" line from the internet about time alignment, imaging and how many watts are being robbed by your passive crossovers....it's always the same line. And as the "know BETTER" line...I wouldn't know if we did, but we know enough to throw away the passive crossovers that come with the Dyn's, we also know enough about how incredible a custom made passive performs with Black Gate caps or Kimber Kaps and other quality parts. And we definately have a respect for active crossovers but we choose were to utilize it, and it's definately not driving our tweeters or mid-range.
Peace!
Thanks BetterBeliz... I don't have access to a reliable source of OS Soundstream amps. I do agree they were badass.

I remember a time when a Soundstream amp rated for 25% of my Zapco amp absolutely blew it out of the water. Not even close. Same exact car, same setup. Did it with an identical car and a "lesser" setup as well. This was not a placebo affect, that's why I don't get into the threads of "all amps sound the same". Well I know for a fact they don't all PERFORM the same, period. I don't have as extensive experience in car audio as I do in home theater and audio, but this holds true there as well.

What current amps would you consider?
 
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