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Discussion Starter #1
I think for the sake of this site, not that it isint the best site out there...:) because i honestly think its on the top of the pile. But i think that we need some sort of audio tracks with VERY indepth run throughs written or recorded of what the songs SHOULD sound like....in all aspects...to get the right sound in a setup and to help a ton with tuning. I think this would be a highly benifecial idea to this site, and it could go up under the DIY Articles section. There would need to be a few different aspects of each song played for reference. Tonality and Staging, and whatever other Sections to help.

Tonality - A VERY in depth run through of each section of the audio spectrum, how it should be presented in the song. Broken down into each section...Subbass, Midbass, Midrange, And Tweets....Each of there effective sounds for the particular song, and how they blend for the particular song, how the ratio's b/w each section should be (level matching guide). (IE, Subbass at a level of -3, midbass at a level of -1, midrange 0, and tweeters -1) to give an accurate representation of level matching for reference, but with audio terms to back up the music. Also a in depth run down of how each instrument in the song should be presented, in complete detail. And its underlying audiostage. Also voices should be highly detailed in description, if at all possible, to know what bands to boost or cut to get the breath associated with high detail in voices. And the timbre of the vocals to be highly recognizable with descriptions to understand. (this is highly diminished in size of what it truely should be.....But end result should be highly in depth on all aspects of each song tonality, individual sounds, and overall complete sound, as well as in depth EQ run through for the particular song.

Staging - A VERY in depth run through of the staging in the song....If its staged wide....if the set drum is presented in the right, string bass on the left, and singer in the center, and sax on the middle right. As well as midrange/Tweet integration descriptions, midbass/Sub integrations, and midrange/midbass integrations. And ultimately, Midbass staging, along with sub staging, (IE getting as much bass up front as possible.)

I know this sounds relatively subjective, but if we could find a few good tracks that have the works, then i think that we should be able in a whole to be able to describe the songs rather indepth, and combine it into a huge tuning guide with downloadable songs to help us Noobs improving out ears and help find out weither what we should be hearing is right or not. And give a very nice referance to what is considered right in SQ and getting a decent stage and image.

IF anyone wants to help me out that has really good ears, i think it would be severely beneficial to us all, not only to tune our setups properly, but to also make you aware of what should be going on, and highten your hearing abilities........And to alot of Tuning suggestions and so forwarth.

I think this would be a HUGELY popular idea to carry on, not only for this site, and its followers, but hopefully to bring more knowledgable people onboard, and give us Tuning noobs something to have as a reference when doing tunings to get our cars to sound as good as possible.

Anyone think this is Doable....It might take awhile...but i think it would be really good for this site. But it might just be me overthinking something really simple :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok no one is intrested....?

Thats depressing that i wrote out this long explination of my idea...and no one comments on it lol.

Anyway....no love lost :D
 

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This from a post from Cmusic over at ECA... a seasoned SQ competitor...

This is something I already had written for a post on SD and saved on my computer. It is about tuning by starting with polarity and going all the way through to the eq. I probably could expand on any area more if someone needs me to.

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There are several different methods used to tune eqs. This is the one I use. An RTA is not needed if the steps are done correctly. This method uses crossovers and gain settings as the most important factor in tuning. I think the eq should be last in line when tuning. Remember after each step to write down your settings. If the sound gets worse, then you can go back to the previous step’s settings and start over.


1. Set all bands flat, as well as the head unit bass and treble.

2. Turn off the subs. Using music with a good bass line, run the highpass crossover up and down until the midbasses can play as low as possible without any distortion or excessive door panel vibrations.

3. Unhook the mids and tweeters, allowing only the midbasses to play. Listen to mono pink noise or a well-recorded song with a centered vocalist. Test CDs such as the IASCA test CD or Autosound 2000 Test CD 102 or 103 will work great. Listen to where the centered sounds are coming from. Then reverse the polarity of one midbass (Reverse the speaker wires coming from the passive crossover and going to the speaker, just flip the positive and negative wires. I usually flip the driver’s side speaker.) and re-listen to the test CD. If the sounds are more centered then keep it as is. If the centered sounds are more diffuse and un-locatable, then flip the polarity back to where it was originally.

4. Then unhook the midbasses and play the mids only and follow the same polarity and listening tests as before. Mark your best settings.

5. Do the same procedure for the tweeters.

6. When you have tested for the proper polarity from all three ranges of speakers, hook all of them back up with respect to each set of speaker’s best polarity. You can have any combination of polarity, such as all the midbass and tweeters straight and one midrange reversed.

7. Now you should have the correct “acoustic” polarity set within each set of speakers. Next is to set the acoustic polarity between the sets of speakers.

8. Listen to some very familiar music with a good range of sounds. Then flip both midbass’ polarity and listen again. Before you only flipped one midbass, now you are doing both at the same time. For example if the left midbass was reversed and the right was not before, now the left will be not reversed and the right will be. Listen to the music again. If the midbass is more powerful and full then leave the wiring as is. If the midbass sounds weaker and wrong then restore the wiring as before.

9. Perform the same listening tests while flipping the mids and tweeters, and use the wiring configuration that sounds the best.

10. If you have went though all these steps adjusting the polarity of the speakers then the system should sound really good without any eq adjustments. You might want to play with the gain adjustments on the crossover and/or amp to better blend all the speakers together.

11. Now onto the eq! The first eq step is to adjust the tonality. While listening to familiar music, adjust each individual band up and down slowly. When the music sounds better then move to the next band. Adjust the left and right bands equally. (We’ll get to the separate left and right adjustments soon.) It really does not matter if the bands are boosted or cut, just that it makes the sound better. Not every band needs to be adjusted. In fact if you did steps 1 thru 10 correctly you should not have to adjust over half the bands. Having a 1/3 octave eq does not mean you have to adjust every band. It means you have the ability to adjust each band if needed. Watch out for big jumps from band to band, like one band set to +4 and the next band set to –6.

12. Continue through all the bands, take a break, and do the same procedure over again. But this time the adjustments will be smaller as you get the tonality dialed in. This step might take several days, weeks, or longer.

13. In tuning you will find some eq bands will raise, lower, move the sound closer, or farther away if adjusted in certain manners. For example, lowering 5 KHz will generally move the soundstage farther away and raising 2 KHz will make the soundstage rise. Each vehicle and system will have different settings that will be the best. The best way to achieve awesome sound is to constantly adjust.

14. When you are satisfied with the tonality of the system, it is time to start adjusting the left and right channels separately. These adjustments should not affect the tonality, but improve on the imaging and soundstaging. Using the Autosound 2000 Test CD 102 or 103 “My Disk” listen to the individual frequency pink noise tracks. (Test CD103 has the tracks arranged in an easier configuration.) Each frequency band should sound like it is coming from the center of the soundstage. If one band is off to one side, then use each band’s left and right eq controls as a balance control. This is very similar to the head unit’s balance control, only now you are balancing each frequency band by itself. For example if 200 Hz seems to be shifted to the left of center, lower the left 200 Hz band and raise the right 200 Hz band one dB at a time until the band is centered. If a frequency is shifted to the right, lower the band’s right channel and raise the left channel in small amounts.

15. When you have when through all the bands take a break. Then later go back through each band one by one and make any further needed adjustments until all the frequencies are lined up in the center of the soundstage. "
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good list there.

What if your only working with a 2way up front right now. I hope to go 3way before long, but When messing around with phasing on my mid's, its either better midbass or better midrange. Its tradeoff's really b/w the two. Is that one of the reasons for going 3way....better phasing adjustments?

Also question about the running hte xovers up and down to get the midbass dialed in. My CA18's don't really respond much below 50hz, and not with any authority really...so i have to put them at 63hz 18 or 24db, I could play them at 6db slope or even no filter on the low end but they don't blend well with my sub. What would you suggest?

Also why am i getting some midrange peaks at 1-3k that i'm having to EQ down alot...do i not have enough power to give me enough midbass to get them going enough?

BTW thanks again.

I just thought we could find some specific tracks to use for diagnosis and such. Oh well.
 

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demon2091tb said:
Good list there.

What if your only working with a 2way up front right now. I hope to go 3way before long, but When messing around with phasing on my mid's, its either better midbass or better midrange.
You are complicating this this more than nessesary... the idea is to play with the phase to see what gives you the better center image. It is simply broken down into tweet, mid, midbass to include 3 way setups. You simply make note of what gives your mid\midbass driver the best center image & not a specific fraction of the audio spectrum...

Is that one of the reasons for going 3way....better phasing adjustments?
not really... but it is a perk in car audio, I have never heard of this helping in home audio setups...

Also question about the running hte xovers up and down to get the midbass dialed in. My CA18's don't really respond much below 50hz, and not with any authority really...so i have to put them at 63hz 18 or 24db, I could play them at 6db slope or even no filter on the low end but they don't blend well with my sub. What would you suggest?
Sounds to me like you have found the xover point that works best in your vehicle... your xover point is well within the midbass region, so you have successfully achieved what the instructions direct you to do.

Also why am i getting some midrange peaks at 1-3k that i'm having to EQ down alot...do i not have enough power to give me enough midbass to get them going enough?
The midrange peaks may be a direct effect of your vehicle's acoustics & not at all related to how much power you have on tap for more midbass authority.

If you are having midbass issues. sometimes, having your subs out of phase, or their xOver overlap or underlap the midbass cutoff helps... you just have to try it all & see what works best in your application.

BTW thanks again.

I just thought we could find some specific tracks to use for diagnosis and such. Oh well.
I believe there are CD's of interest mentioned in the intructions...
 

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Great post there. I would only add for the 99% of us who don't compete, substitute reversing polarity for time alignment. Imho significantly better results can be had for the driver side without the significant loss of mid/bass that usually accompanies reversing polarity.

My only other advice is to spend some time in a nice home audio shop. Bring some cd's and listen to them as critically as you can for tonality, clarity, and realism. There's just no way to tune by ear unless you have a significant amount of experience listening to a good number of highly regarded home speakers.
 
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