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Discussion Starter #1
....that these batteries:


are a better "value" than these batteries


I mean, really, will the single Xs battery here perform as well, as a bank of 6 of the bottom batteries ? Because it is more than 6 X's the cost !

Yes, I know their are factors other than just CCA's such as durabilty, ease of charging, etc... and coolness :) And who doesn't want to be cool, right ;) lol

Long story short, I'd love to have 4 of those Xs batts, and a Mechman 370 alternator.... But that would be over $2000 ! So I will likely end up going with a lesser name alternator (only a mere 330 amp) and 3 of these cheap azz batts, for about $500 total. For me, this is a "doable" vs. "not doable" situation.

And the fact that I'm currently running only the stock alternator (130 amp) and only 1 of these super cheap batteries, yet doing surprisingly well, I just can't help but believe this will be a HUGE improvement, and easily allow for future expansion.
 

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I bought a Walmart battery a few years back because it had a great warranty.I'm now on my third replacement because the battery always fail inside warranty. However it has been difficult to get a replacement out of Walmart.

last time I had to get the store manager involved and call the actual manufacturers to prove to them that a battery that will hold only 12.0 volt and no more is a defective battery.

Is it worth the hassle and possibly getting stranded?
Probably not.

imagine dealing with this every year and a half with six different batteries.

When this battery fails I will be buying something of better quality. My entire system runs about 800 watts RMS and I have reserve alternator power so not a difficult load at all.

Aside from my durability rant, that battery is a completely different class than your standard automotive battery.

Standard batteries cannot provide quick power transients to the system the same way as an AGM battery can. you can't just tie a bunch of standard car batteries together and expect the same performance.

It sounds like you already understand the differences though.
To many people The increased performance, compactness, reliability are all worth the extra price.

whether or not all of that is worth the cost to you is something you have to decide for yourself.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I bought a Walmart battery a few years back because it had a great warranty.I'm now on my third replacement because the battery always fail inside warranty. However it has been difficult to get a replacement out of Walmart.

last time I had to get the store manager involved and call the actual manufacturers to prove to them that a battery that will hold only 12.0 volt and no more is a defective battery.

Is it worth the hassle and possibly getting stranded?
Probably not.

imagine dealing with this every year and a half with six different batteries.

When this battery fails I will be buying something of better quality. My entire system runs about 800 watts RMS and I have reserve alternator power so not a difficult load at all.

Aside from my durability rant, that battery is a completely different class than your standard automotive battery.

Standard batteries cannot provide quick power transients to the system the same way as an AGM battery can. you can't just tie a bunch of standard car batteries together and expect the same performance.

It sounds like you already understand the differences though.
To many people The increased performance, compactness, reliability are all worth the extra price.

whether or not all of that is worth the cost to you is something you have to decide for yourself.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Back in the day, I used to buy their biggest, deep cycle battery for my boats electric trolling motor. At the time, I "only used" an electric trolling motor to get me around. So i beat the chit out of those batts. It would usually kill them in about 20 months, and they had a 24 month free replacement. I swear I returned about 6 of those, and never had the slightest argument from anybody at Walmart. It was dead in 20 months, it had a 24 month free replacement. Bam ! Simple as that. I brought back so many, I almost felt guilty, but then figured, they get more than there money back from me on so many other things anyway :)

Again, I believe the AGM batts are better. I just don't think they are 400 to 600% better.
 

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You mentioned battery banks... I think we first need to understand the system (what amplifiers/how many? Any other significant electrical drain?), why you feel you need so much reserve capacity and also where they will be mounted. If you are doing fine with your stock alternator and a single battery, what is the reason for the upgrade need?

I would highly recommend against mounting lead acid batteries inside your vehicle/trunk. They must be vented to the exterior or installed in the exterior (ie-under the hood).
 

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A cheap O-Scope would be a good investment.
You might FEEL like you need a battery bank, like an amputee feels a phantom limb.
Or maybe it would help... we don't know.
2000$ goes a long ways.
I would personally be looking at a $2000 DSP, and a $200 battery rather than vice versa.
 

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First and foremost, I'd strongly suggest performing a current draw test before purchasing additional batteries. What is your existing voltage drop?

Regarding batteries, as CaptainObvious has already mentioned, standard flooded lead-acid batteries (both unsealed and sealed) should never be used within an enclosed space due to the release of hydrogen gas when charging. They should always be vented to atmosphere. Even the sealed versions have a valve (VRLA) valve-regulated-lead-acid which is used to vent the hydrogen from the charging battery. Also, the electrolyte solution within unsealed lead-acid batteries becomes a safety concern since the caps of these batteries can easily dislodge themselves. The acidic solution is highly corrosive.

Regarding performance, technically flooded lead-acid batteries have the longest lifespan. The caveat to longest lasting is the assumption that these batteries are regularly maintained (such as adding distilled water). Battery powered golf carts and forklifts use flooded lead-acid batteries because they last the longest.

AGM batteries are better suited for mobile applications because there is virtually zero maintenance required. Their lifespan is less than that of lead acid, but the benefit is that you can mount them in any orientation, can put them in an enclosed space, and are better for colder climates.

Gel batteries use a paste instead of the fiberglass mat in AGM batteries. The primary difference between gel and AGM batteries are in the charge and discharge cycle time. Gel batteries are better for high charge and discharge rates. However, as you have noticed, they are costly. Another negative is that gel batteries are more sensitive to charging parameters than lead acid or AGM.
 

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....that these batteries:


are a better "value" than these batteries


I mean, really, will the single Xs battery here perform as well, as a bank of 6 of the bottom batteries ? Because it is more than 6 X's the cost !

Yes, I know their are factors other than just CCA's such as durabilty, ease of charging, etc... and coolness :) And who doesn't want to be cool, right ;) lol

Long story short, I'd love to have 4 of those Xs batts, and a Mechman 370 alternator.... But that would be over $2000 ! So I will likely end up going with a lesser name alternator (only a mere 330 amp) and 3 of these cheap azz batts, for about $500 total. For me, this is a "doable" vs. "not doable" situation.

And the fact that I'm currently running only the stock alternator (130 amp) and only 1 of these super cheap batteries, yet doing surprisingly well, I just can't help but believe this will be a HUGE improvement, and easily allow for future expansion.
You don't need a bank of batteries, just one additional battery. That being said, and I know you are trying to save money, but a good battery will save you time, labor, and money in the long run. I've personally never had a problem with Optima Yellow Tops, and I currently have an XS Power D4900 along with a Yellow Top (starting duty). Both are great batteries. By the way, 370 amp alternator from Custom Electric and those batteries running about 4000 watts.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You mentioned battery banks... I think we first need to understand the system (what amplifiers/how many? Any other significant electrical drain?), why you feel you need so much reserve capacity and also where they will be mounted. If you are doing fine with your stock alternator and a single battery, what is the reason for the upgrade need?

I would highly recommend against mounting lead acid batteries inside your vehicle/trunk. They must be vented to the exterior or installed in the exterior (ie-under the hood).
No, what you need to understand, is that I would like to have additional power, for future expansion of my setup.
Currently, I'm make just under 2Kwts, and my stock alternator and cheapie battery handles that surprisingly well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A cheap O-Scope would be a good investment.
You might FEEL like you need a battery bank, like an amputee feels a phantom limb.
Or maybe it would help... we don't know.
2000$ goes a long ways.
I would personally be looking at a $2000 DSP, and a $200 battery rather than vice versa.
I've looked into DSP's quite a bit recently, and I now believe that a $150 Dayton 408 will do just as good a job for my purposes, as any waaay more expensive DSP..... Even if it doesn't vhave auto tuning features (harder to set up)

Like I say, a Mechman 370 + 4 high quality Batts would cost $2000, so whether one considers tgatcto be "going a long ways" or not, would be up to them. I think that would be quite substantial, but there are guys running electrical systems 5 X's as strong / expensive as that !
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey thank you to all you who mentioned venting for lead acid Batts. That's something I need to consider. I guess I could probably devise a way to vent the airspace under my bed cover.. but not without hacking a hole or two in the bed. Hmmm.
 

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Currently, I'm make just under 2Kwts, and my stock alternator and cheapie battery handles that surprisingly well.
That's because you aren't actually using any where near all of those 2k watts. And, even with future upgrades you will be using much less power than the amps rated power. I agree that you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't, and may not ever exist.
 

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....Like I say, a Mechman 370 + 4 high quality Batts would cost $2000, so whether one considers tgatcto be "going a long ways" or not, would be up to them. I think that would be quite substantial, but there are guys running electrical systems 5 X's as strong / expensive as that !
A 370 amp hairpin style alternator from Custom Electric costs @$500 plus $350-ish for a good sized XS Power battery, $850-ish total, good for 5000-ish watts. How many watts might you be running in the next few years?
You still need a mic and laptop for a dsp, so add $300 for a laptop, $75-100 for a mic, and $150 for that Dayton dsp. $850+$550=$1400, still cheaper than the proposed pointless alt and battery upgrade (the above-mentioned $2000 upgrade). Alright, I'm done, ran out of hyphens.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That's because you aren't actually using any where near all of those 2k watts. And, even with future upgrades you will be using much less power than the amps rated power. I agree that you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't, and may not ever exist.
Hmmm. Well ya know, this latest setup is actually working quite well, and I think part of that, is that my brand new Wolfram amp, is probably more efficient than my 15 yo RF Power 1000.

But also, a very knowledgeable stereo guy over on another forum brought up a good point, even though my voltage is not dropping too awfully much, amperage is another thing. In his experience, beefing up his electrical made a big difference in his bass output, and I could imagine that. My system seems noticeably louder / stronger, when my alternator is cold and cranking out max amps, vs. later on a hot Summer day, which tells me, that "as it is" (without any amplifier upgrades) my electrical system is playing on the edge of it's capabilities.
I'm positive at least a moderate upgrade would help me a lot.
Now, how much of an upgrade, and how far a plan to upgrade the amplifier situation in the future is the question ?
 

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Hmmm. Well ya know, this latest setup is actually working quite well, and I think part of that, is that my brand new Wolfram amp, is probably more efficient than my 15 yo RF Power 1000.

But also, a very knowledgeable stereo guy over on another forum brought up a good point, even though my voltage is not dropping too awfully much, amperage is another thing. In his experience, beefing up his electrical made a big difference in his bass output, and I could imagine that. My system seems noticeably louder / stronger, when my alternator is cold and cranking out max amps, vs. later on a hot Summer day, which tells me, that "as it is" (without any amplifier upgrades) my electrical system is playing on the edge of it's capabilities.
I'm positive at least a moderate upgrade would help me a lot.
Now, how much of an upgrade, and how far a plan to upgrade the amplifier situation in the future is the question ?
What amp are you using? Most amps are pretty tightly regulated, so the output stays pretty much the same even as the input voltage fluctuates.
 

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No, what you need to understand, is that I would like to have additional power, for future expansion of my setup.
Currently, I'm make just under 2Kwts, and my stock alternator and cheapie battery handles that surprisingly well.
LOL, ok whatever you say bro. I was trying to give you an accurate and helpful response to your query- which requires more information about the current draw (current or planned), but feel free to piss about adding battery banks and mega alternators without any direction. I'm out.
 

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What amp are you using? Most amps are pretty tightly regulated, so the output stays pretty much the same even as the input voltage fluctuates.
This is not the truth I see. Most amps are not regulated and power output changes based off the input voltage.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is not the truth I see. Most amps are not regulated and power output changes based off the input voltage.
Yes, it changes big time ! I can totally tell a difference in my output when my alternator is cold, and charging at 14.5 volts. vs hot and charging at 13.2
 

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This is not the truth I see. Most amps are not regulated and power output changes based off the input voltage.
It changes some, but not a ton. We're not talking about halving power, we're talking about a decibel or 2.
 

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LOL, ok whatever you say bro. I was trying to give you an accurate and helpful response to your query- which requires more information about the current draw (current or planned), but feel free to piss about adding battery banks and mega alternators without any direction. I'm out.
Hold the door I am following you out.

Right after I (re) suggest investing in a clamp style amp meter, or small O-scope to understand if there is a real problem or just an imaginary problem.

Exit stage left.


This is not the truth I see. Most amps are not regulated and power output changes based off the input voltage.
^Correct^
And even more so with headroom than power.


It changes some, but not a ton. We're not talking about halving power, we're talking about a decibel or 2.
Not exactly. Those regulated amps are not cheaper, and people usually do not get regulated amps as most do not understand the need.

We are not talking about a decibel or two, we are talking about the current surging into the amp, and the only decibel one would loose is the peak ones.
The effect upon the power line coming is that the current is snapping up and down in response to the output, or the input being buffered by the regulation and capacitors in the amp... and more importantly the amps rails not being affected by the input voltage.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It changes some, but not a ton. We're not talking about halving power, we're talking about a decibel or 2.
Hold the door I am following you out.

Right after I (re) suggest investing in a clamp style amp meter, or small O-scope to understand if there is a real problem or just an imaginary problem.

Exit stage left.




^Correct^
And even more so with headroom than power.




Not exactly. Those regulated amps are not cheaper, and people usually do not get regulated amps as most do not understand the need.

We are not talking about a decibel or two, we are talking about the current surging into the amp, and the only decibel one would loose is the peak ones.
The effect upon the power line coming is that the current is snapping up and down in response to the output, or the input being buffered by the regulation and capacitors in the amp... and more importantly the amps rails not being affected by the input voltage.
I will look into / consider a small clamp meter. But I already know my electrical system is right on the edge of what it can handle, by the difference I can hear from when the alternator is cold and charging to 14.5 volts, vs hot, and only charging to low 13's.
And the other thing, was making the electrical strong enough for future upgrades.

Glad I posted about this though.... As I have learned about "gassing" being an issue to consider, "not" just with cheap batts, but lead/acid batts in general.

Will give more consideration to cheap AGM's....

Thanks to all for the input.
 
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