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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I've had several systems in the past but were all installed by pros. I now live in a place where there isn't a single audio shop and my S2000 has an awful setup. The original deck was replaced by a truly cheap pioneer deck with an acoustic sound setting as a highlight. The speakers are OEM as far as I can tell.

Seeing that I've never attempted an install before, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. So I'm going for a head unit, 2 way component speakers, amp(s), single 10" subwoofer.

My question is regarding the amp and the sub. Can I get away with a 4 channel amp, just bridge 2 channels to power the sub? Should I get a DSP amp? How would tuning work when all you have is your ears?

Components I have in mind include Audio Frog GB60 and JL 10w6.

Sorry for sounding like a complete dunce. If anyone who's been in my shoes before can give me pointers I'd much appreciate it.
 

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Get a 4 channel amp.
And a class D amp for the subs.
Then a Dayton 408 DSP
This Mic
Damplifier pro sound deadening.
Do the inside door skins, floor and trunk.
You can also use foam like vibro 6mm on the door panel and door frame that it mounts to.
You run your source to the dayton, then to the amps, then to the speakers.
Tune it using REW and the mic and set your time delays.
It is fun, and you can do it yourself but its a lot of work.
It will give great sound for the money.
Tuning and sound deadening are more important at this point than speakers and amps. What good is a high end amp or speaker if the system is not tuned and you have rattles and road noise?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Get a 4 channel amp.
And a class D amp for the subs.
Then a Dayton 408 DSP
This Mic
Damplifier pro sound deadening.
Do the inside door skins, floor and trunk.
You can also use foam like vibro 6mm on the door panel and door frame that it mounts to.
You run your source to the dayton, then to the amps, then to the speakers.
Tune it using REW and the mic and set your time delays.
It is fun, and you can do it yourself but its a lot of work.
It will give great sound for the money.
Tuning and sound deadening are more important at this point than speakers and amps. What good is a high end amp or speaker if the system is not tuned and you have rattles and road noise?
Drats I was hoping to not have to deal with another amp lol. Was thinking the 2 spare channels from the 4 channel amp would power the sub. My S2000 doesn't have rear speakers.
 

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If you dont run a separate channel to each speaker, you cannot tune each channel separately. A 5 channel amp would work. Depends on how much you like bass.
 

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Drats I was hoping to not have to deal with another amp lol. Was thinking the 2 spare channels from the 4 channel amp would power the sub. My S2000 doesn't have rear speakers.
Don't run 2 amps. If anything just run a 5 channel. But, if you intend to keep the install simple with passive crossovers then yes you can run a 4 channel and bridge two channels to a sub.

What is your budget? How much weight are you willing to sacrifice, and what are your ultimate expectations? Loud and clear music is much easier than also getting perfect staging and balance. Do you have a hardtop, how much noise do you have to compete with?
 

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It depends on how serious of a system you want. In the past I've ran a 4 channel amp with the rear channel bridged for a sub. Most 4 channel amps I look at now don't have that much power bridged...unless you really go up in price. Cost-wise, it's probably cheaper to get a 2 channel amp for the fronts and a mono amp for the sub. I don't worry about my rear speakers. I just always run the rears off of the head unit. If you run the right wire, it's not that much trouble to hook up two amps than it is to do one 4 channel.
 

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I did a simple 2 way plus sub install in an S2000 several years ago for my dad. You can find the build thread in the Build Logs section ;)

If you are using passive crossovers, then yes you can use a simple 4 channel amplifier and use 2 channels for the components and 2 channels bridged for the sub. Just keep in mind that bridged channels of (most) amps are only stable to 4 ohms or higher. So you need a sub with a single 4ohm voice coil, or dual 2 ohm coils wired in series to 4 ohms.
Cheers,

-Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Alright so my S2000 does indeed have a hardtop. I'm going for a clean sounding system, I'll only be getting front imaging so there's only so far you can go with that.

Components so far:

GB60 + GB15. (Ordering)
JL 10w6 (purchased, box being made now)
Zapco ST4X 4 channel amp (yet to purchase)
Zapco ST1000XMII 1 channel class D amp (yet to buy)

I think I'm gonna just have to go for 2 amps as I'm not worried about weight just didn't want to have to do too much as I don't actually know what I'm doing.

Any thoughts to this build? Will it all work well?

Cheers
 

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I'm a Zapco guy and on the competition team. In your case, I wouldn't choose the amps you selected. To keep things really simple, I would recommend something like the Kicker IQ1000.5 while you can still get it. $750 is a good deal for what you get, considering the built in DSP.

If you like the Zapco ST line, get the ST-4X DSP instead of the standard 4X. It also has built in DSP with two channels of processed output you can use for the mono amp. But, I still think an "all in one" 5 channel DSP amp like the Kicker is a better option. There are other options, but the price point is going to be over $1k.
 

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i don't really know anything about / have experience with the a-z range of the zapco lineup but the footprint of those amps seems pretty small which is a good thing to keep in mind if you're concerned about maximizing the space.
 

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Fellow s2k diyma member

I also went with a 5ch amp, arc 1100.5
It's small, performs incredibly well, and hasn't had an issue with heat at all.

Curious to see your w6 and box install

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

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You do not need to control each driver with a DSP. If you go with Audiofrog, the passive crossovers you get with a component set are great. You can still do everything a DSP can do into the crossovers. Lots of pro installers use passive crossovers and DSP's. Actually, you don't need a DSP to have great sound quality. A 3 way system in that very small car can do SQ very well with sound deadening, the right headunit, good wiring, a 4 channel amp, a component set, and a single subwoofer.
 

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Well...

You do not need to control each driver with a DSP.
True. There are many instances where passive crossovers in combination with DSP will net great results.

If you go with Audiofrog, the passive crossovers you get with a component set are great.
The Audiofrog passive crossovers are probably some of the nicest you can get in car audio. However, the only component set that come with the passive crossovers included are the G60S. All other products (GS and GB line) are ala carte with the passive crossovers purchased separately. In the case of a GB 2 way component set (which the OP mentioned), you're talking about a $450 add.

If you're already planning to use a DSP, $450 for a passive crossover is a pretty big pill to swallow. Even if you aren't already planning to use a DSP $450 can get you into a very capable JL TwK and there are others that are even more reasonably priced.

You can still do everything a DSP can do into the crossovers.
Yes, EQ, level, time alignment and phase adjustments can still be made. You really won't be adding any additional crossovers in the middle of the passband shared by the two drivers, and they will both be affected by any changes made in the DSP.

Lots of pro installers use passive crossovers and DSP's.
Some yes. And lots of pro installers also install DSPs and do nothing more than set crossovers with them. Sometimes they don't even get that much right. This isn't a knock on professional installers. Just relaying commentary/complaints I have seen and heard from other industry professionals when they have to deal with other people's work.

Actually, you don't need a DSP to have great sound quality.
This I would argue. The goal with "sound quality" is faithful reproduction of the source. Part of that reproduction is staging. Without some level of DSP, you are not going to get staging OR tonality right. This is especially true if you're doing a "simple" install with stock driver locations. You have to be able to correct for the environment. Can you get a car to have decent staging and sound really good with minimal processing? Absolutley.

A 3 way system in that very small car can do SQ very well with sound deadening, the right headunit, good wiring, a 4 channel amp, a component set, and a single subwoofer.
I've put the key to your last statement in bold font. And the reason that head unit is the key is because the processing power aka DSP in the head unit can make all the difference in the world. I've done a lot of research recently on head unit DSP because I am helping a guy with a very simple install. The differences in tuning capability among the "big four (Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Sony) is actually quite surprising. For a passive install, Kenwood would be my first choice followed by Alpine. Pioneer is a distant third (save for the DEH-80PRS) and Sony isn't even in the running.
 

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This car is really not suited for "amazing" sq. The mids sit low, basically firing into your calves. What works great when using a mic+Rew to tune with the driver is damn near negated the second a passenger sits in their seat...:/ The trunk is also separated from the cabin with a spare tire and gas tank
Not saying that it's impossible though. I did the best I could within a reasonable budget to make sure I had some tunes around town with the top up, but it got loud enough with the top down.

80prs
sb17
Tang band 25-2176s
Arc 1100.5
Sd3-10
CLD everywhere

Amp sits in the tool well and sub box neatly fits in that cubby, can also be removed on long road trips

Mind the 2nd pic, old setup before cleaning up the wires


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really value and appreciate it. @gw205 thanks for sharing pics! Also, I took your amp recommendation. My build now looks like this:
1) Audiofrog GB60, GB15, GB615c components.
2) Arc Audio XDi 1100.5 Amp
3) JL 10w6 with custom box

Now I'm in the market for a solid head unit. I would prefer to run Tidal from my phone, but Bluetooth would just negate the quality difference I'd have from running Spotify.....ultimately rendering my system mediocre. Is there a solution to this? Is the 3.5mm Jack or USB type C feed good enough quality? I know some head units will take USB drives and play FLAC audio, I'm using that as a last resort as it's not as practical as plugging in my phone.

Currently I'm looking into the Alpine CDE 163EBT. Will this be good?

Thanks guys
 

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I was also looking at that alpine unit but chose the 80prs over it.
Having a proper EQ with l&r adjustment was the seller for me. It's a tried&true HU on here. They're around $250 on eBay all day.
I have a large SD card in there with all high bitrate mp3s and it sounds terrific. But yes, it's a noticeable difference between that and Bluetooth/Spotify quality

Make sure to the get the modifry chip for whatever HU you decide on, so you can still retain the stereo controls on the left side of the dash

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok so it looks like the 80PRS has no Android support and doesn't play FLAC files. Otherwise it's crazy good tech.
 

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Ok so it looks like the 80PRS has no Android support and doesn't play FLAC files. Otherwise it's crazy good tech.
The FLAC issue isn't a problem, there are plenty of good file formats, and storage is cheap. The Android may be a deal breaker for you.

Are you stuck with a single din head unit? There are some great double dins with strong enough DSPs so that you don't have to buy the AF crossovers. You can run active with many Kenwood and Pioneer head double dins, have Android Auto, and FLAC. The DSP is a tad limited, but it'll do everything the AF crossovers do and more.
 
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