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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With Morel recently releasing their new 8" BMW OE location underseat option:


I am again pondering the idea of ditching trunk subs and just doing a KISS system in my E82 1M Coupe:

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Land vehicle


In the A pillars will be Utopia TBM's and 3.5WM's - so I would need an underseat that will reach up as high as possible - no less than 250Hz. As for bottom end, I'm not a sub-bass junkie - I can live with extension that only digs to mid-high 30's.

The car already has extensive sound deadening, but I would definitely be looking at ways to improve upon the OE mount as much as possible.

Note that in the BMW E82 chassis, the underseat woofers vent directly into the rear 1/4 panels (there's no rear doors) - so they are effectively IB all the way into, and including, the trunk.

Power will be a Helix P Six, so 120w in 4Ω or 230w into 2Ω

Am I wasting my time trying to go sub-less, or is there something out there that would do the system justice?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I basically have a bmw (Supra). I have considered sub-less and using the 8” instead. (AD Neo8). Not even a chance you will be happy w that.
The AD W800Neo's are not subs - not by any stretch of the imagination! They play down to 80Hz with power, or maybe 60'ish if you put a shelf filter on them to control excursion. So yep, definitely no way anyone would be happy with them without a sub..

Note: Speaking from experience, I have a pair of the AD W800Neo's.
 

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I am well aware of that. I used them as mid bass. However. Your question was, will your setup work “sub less”. And my answer is no. You will be very disappointed w that.
I am running a GB10 sub and very happy w it
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am well aware of that. I used them as mid bass. However. Your question was, will your setup work “sub less”. And my answer is no. You will be very disappointed w that.
I am running a GB10 sub and very happy w it
Have you tried any other underseat drivers, or just the AD's?
 

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You won’t find one, they run out of usable output at 170-200ish, you need a bigger midrange…

it’s cabin geometry and driver location which means the driver that won’t play 200-300hz… that’s easy for any 8” driver, even most 8” subs, there will be a phase issue around 80-100 on the drivers side (dont try and fill it with eq) and also a phase issue on the passenger side of the car around 170-230 depending on the cars exact measurements

you are trying to fight the car with a predetermined size of midrange that simply won’t work

steg mss3 which is a 4”, scan speak 12m or mu, any of the sb acoustics 12cm drivers ceramic or mrnx-2 are good to go also

It’s like choosing a single 5” subwoofer and then saying you want authoritative sub bass in single digits

the only possible way to get the 3.5wm to work properly with good phase coherence is to move to the kick panels and fabricate something. They should then play up a bit higher and be capable of being crossed at 350ish or use underseats with a 5-6” in the kick panels so the underseat limitations aren’t an issue 👍🏼
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rectangle Slope Font Plot Parallel


This is an in-car measurement on the AD W800Neo's in my own car.
Output was effectively flat from 80Hz-300Hz after a bit of EQ'ing.
My ears correlate the measurement - there was no dip in the mid bass region..

Maybe it's just the E82 chassis that is able to achieve this - in any case, all I really want is the AD's clean top end with more extension. Ain't no way I'm cutting my doors!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You won’t find one, they run out of usable output at 170-200ish, you need a bigger midrange…
I understand that's the most common result, right. I managed better with the AD's though 🤷‍♂️

the only possible way to get the 3.5wm to work properly with good phase coherence is to move to the kick panels and fabricate something.
OK, maybe I'm not the worlds greatest fabricator, but dang, kick panels just seem so impossible in the E82 chassis.

Have you done it? Seen any examples?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just buy a spare set of door cards ljke I did. Made the whole process a lot easier.
I just feel like I don't need to. I am clearly not having the issues you guys have experienced. Not sure why. Is your experience in an E82?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just feel like I don't need to. I am clearly not having the issues you guys have experienced. Not sure why. Is your experience in an E82?
Sorry, duh, you are working with a BMW Supra.

I'm starting to feel lucky, ngl.
 

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View attachment 352732

This is an in-car measurement on the AD W800Neo's in my own car.
Output was effectively flat from 80Hz-300Hz after a bit of EQ'ing.
My ears correlate the measurement - there was no dip in the mid bass region..

Maybe it's just the E82 chassis that is able to achieve this - in any case, all I really want is the AD's clean top end with more extension. Ain't no way I'm cutting my doors!
Can't argue with that. I'm not a big focal fan, but any top quality mid n tweet is going to be good
 

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I understand that's the most common result, right. I managed better with the AD's though 🤷‍♂️



OK, maybe I'm not the worlds greatest fabricator, but dang, kick panels just seem so impossible in the E82 chassis.

Have you done it? Seen any examples?
I’ve seen higher than 200 in a new bmw mini that I measured with a set of underseats that played to 300 very nicely, but it’s down to the size of the car and the internal measurements being very small

funnily enough I will have a 1m to help tune at some point soon once he gets the install done

Getting output to 300hz doesn’t mean there are no phase issues, nor does being able to get a flat response, what did the response look like at 1/48th octave measurement with no eq, that will determine what the best course of action is and where drivers play to

if you genuinely have got to 300hz then the focals still wont play low enough to meet and my former advice stands, ideally you use steep slopes (24db) and have 50-100hz overlap each side of the crossover, I never use phase related dips as crossover slopes due to the phase being messed up at those dips
 
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