[RedHotFuzz]

Hey all, new to the forum and not much experience with mobile audio. I've swapped some head units but that's about it. I have a '14 Jetta Sportwagen TDI with 10 speakers from factory. 2-way components in the rear doors (6.5" woofer, 1" tweeter) and 3-way components in the front doors (6.5" woofer, 4" mid, 1" tweeter). I managed to blow the junk factory speakers when I installed my Pioneer MVH-1400NEX (CarPlay unit). Probably for the best as it forces me to replace that fleamarket garbage.

I swapped the rear door speakers with Polk DB6502 2-way components. I actually bought another set for the front doors as I couldn't find an affordable 3-way system based on my initial research.

Now that I have the front doors torn apart and soundproofed, I'm realizing I probably should go with a 3-way setup, based primarily on the fact VW positioned the front door speakers terribly. The 6.5" basically fires directly into your hip. The 4" is at about sternum level and the tweeter is in the sail panel. If I go with the Polk 2-way, I think I'll miss out on most of the sonics.

After further research I discovered Dayton Audio and thought perhaps they might make a decent setup at my sub-$300 budget. The Pioneer head unit puts out 50W x 4, and I'm hoping that is sufficient for now. I thought if I could get a 6.5" that is capable of handling the low frequencies satisfactorily (a big ask for a 6.5", I know), the 4" to take on the mids, and the tweeters handling the highs, I might be in OK shape.

Space is, of course, an issue as these are door speakers. I don't want to have to do any cutting or fancy fabrication. I have some adapter rings and spacers. Not sure exactly how much depth I have to work with, but I'm hoping with spacers I can accommodate anything up to around 3.5" or so in depth.

Do you think this setup would work for my vehicle with my budget limitations?

• Dayton 6.5" DC-160-4
• Dayton 4" RS100-4
• Dayton 1" AN25Ti-4 (titanium dome) or Dayton 1" AN25F-4 (neodymium dome)
• AudioPipe 3-way crossover (Woofer 20hz-500hz. Mid. 500hz-3.5khz. Tweeter 3khz-20khz.)

Any thoughts for a noob from the pros out there would be most-appreciated! I'm open to any other brands that fit this price category. I've not found anything from the typical consumer brands (Polk, Pioneer, etc.) and most of the brands that offer component speakers are out of my price range (per the wife/CFO). This is the first time I've ever done my own door speaker install and the first time I've messed with a component speaker setup.

 

[foreman]

I wouldn't replace anything until you budget for an amp, wiring and sound treatment. Otherwise you will most likely not be happy with it and turn it up and blow the new stuff too.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

I wouldn't replace anything until you budget for an amp, wiring and sound treatment. Otherwise you will most likely not be happy with it and turn it up and blow the new stuff too.

I’ve done Noico in the doors, which will be the extent of my sound deadening.

 

[foreman]

Thats fine but without an amp you won't actually be helping yourself any. Save for that then run new speakers off of it. That will yield much better results, or you will continue to have the same problem.

 

[6262ms3]

As an aside, that generation of VW's used an "opsodis" 3-way front stage. The woofer placement may seem goofy but it actually has soundstage/imaging benefits. Patrick Bateman had a great post about it: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/150134-crazy-imaging-stock-system.html

But yeah, it probably wouldn't make a good conversion to a 6.5 2-way setup with those locations.

Aftermarket head-units may say 50x4 watts, but that's typically "maximum" power, which is BS. Look for your "rms" or "continuous" power rating, most head-units are in the 20-25 watt per channel range. With those audiopipe passive crossovers, you can only use one amp channel for all 3 speakers on each side. I doubt you would be happy with around 20 watts split between the woofer/mid/tweeter.

Even a cheap, simple micro amp like this (ignore pricing here, it's CDN Retail) https://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Car/Amplifiers/GM-Digital-Series/GM-D1004#specs could be bridged into 2 channels and provide ~ 90 watts x 2 for those 3-way crossovers. Since you said you already have a Polk 2-way set purchased for the front, you could simply add the Dayton 4-inchers in-between the Polk woofer/tweeter with the Audiopipe 3-way Crossovers (you would need to make sure the Polk woofer and tweeter are both 4 ohms). You could keep the current Polk rear speakers on the deck amp's rear channels, at a lower volume. With just the mids, crossovers and a cheap amp, you may be able to stick within the $300 budget.

Even without a subwoofer, you should still use the high-pass crossovers on your deck and set to at-least 40/50hz both front and rear. Sending low-bass to 6.5's is generally a bad idea (likely how you killed the stock woofers). Factory head-units these days usually roll-off the low bass as the volume is turned higher to protect the woofers.

Just my 2 cents, I get that you're on a budget, but in my experience head-unit power always sucks ass for front speakers. I've discovered that factory speakers on a half-decent amplifier can sound better than half-decent speakers on head-unit power.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

Good advice, thanks. I already ordered some Dayton Audio speakers for all 3 spots (6.5”, 4”, 1”). I don’t know that the 6.5” is as good as the Polk but I bet the tweeters are better (Air Motion Transformers).

Yes, I think I will need to be looking into an amp. I only wish there were a simple plug-and-play between my factory wiring harness and the Metra wiring harness I used with the new Pioneer deck. Tearing everything apart again isn’t very appealing, nor is the need to run power to the battery and find somewhere to put the amp.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

I ordered the Pioneer mini-amp you recommended. At $90 from Amazon I figured it was a no-brainer. Hopefully it’s an easy install with my Pioneer MVH-1400-NEX.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

As an aside, that generation of VW's used an "opsodis" 3-way front stage. The woofer placement may seem goofy but it actually has soundstage/imaging benefits. Patrick Bateman had a great post about it: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/150134-crazy-imaging-stock-system.html

This is great info. VW forum members rage about this speaker setup, probably not realizing the design objective. I'll have to share this article over there.

And it confirms my decision to stick with a 3-way in the front doors. Speakers and amp will be arriving in the next couple of days. For the future I'll probably look into a spare-tire subwoofer setup, maybe a JBL BassPro hub.

 

[Motoxer913]

Any advice for me before I tear into my VW 13 TDI JSW (same car)? I cannot find an amplifier anywhere, it’s supposed to be under the drivers seat so I guess I do not have the “premium” sound system that is so dreaded. I have 10 speaker system as described above with 3-way up front.
my plan is to tear out everything except the rear doors remains un-touched:

• Kenwood Excelon deck for both CarPlay and hi-res FLAC playback
• Rear doors run off deck
• Front 3-ways replaces with Hertz 163.3 PRO which I scored for a crazy deal
• Kenwood Excelon Reference 5 channel amp running the Hertz 3-ways off the 4ch bridged to 2
• 10” sub powered by the 5th channel

Will I have any problems running the rear speakers off the deck via factory wiring harness?

Will the vw computer throw any errors I have to deal with from gutting most of the sound system?

anything else I should know? I assume this is a fairly straight forward install and I’m not going to fight any computer controlled stuff...

thanks!!

 

[hankhowdy1]

Hey all, new to the forum and not much experience with mobile audio. I've swapped some head units but that's about it. I have a '14 Jetta Sportwagen TDI with 10 speakers from factory. 2-way components in the rear doors (6.5" woofer, 1" tweeter) and 3-way components in the front doors (6.5" woofer, 4" mid, 1" tweeter). I managed to blow the junk factory speakers when I installed my Pioneer MVH-1400NEX (CarPlay unit). Probably for the best as it forces me to replace that fleamarket garbage.

I swapped the rear door speakers with Polk DB6502 2-way components. I actually bought another set for the front doors as I couldn't find an affordable 3-way system based on my initial research.

Now that I have the front doors torn apart and soundproofed, I'm realizing I probably should go with a 3-way setup, based primarily on the fact VW positioned the front door speakers terribly. The 6.5" basically fires directly into your hip. The 4" is at about sternum level and the tweeter is in the sail panel. If I go with the Polk 2-way, I think I'll miss out on most of the sonics.

After further research I discovered Dayton Audio and thought perhaps they might make a decent setup at my sub-$300 budget. The Pioneer head unit puts out 50W x 4, and I'm hoping that is sufficient for now. I thought if I could get a 6.5" that is capable of handling the low frequencies satisfactorily (a big ask for a 6.5", I know), the 4" to take on the mids, and the tweeters handling the highs, I might be in OK shape.

Space is, of course, an issue as these are door speakers. I don't want to have to do any cutting or fancy fabrication. I have some adapter rings and spacers. Not sure exactly how much depth I have to work with, but I'm hoping with spacers I can accommodate anything up to around 3.5" or so in depth.

Do you think this setup would work for my vehicle with my budget limitations?

• Dayton 6.5" DC-160-4
• Dayton 4" RS100-4
• Dayton 1" AN25Ti-4 (titanium dome) or Dayton 1" AN25F-4 (neodymium dome)
• AudioPipe 3-way crossover (Woofer 20hz-500hz. Mid. 500hz-3.5khz. Tweeter 3khz-20khz.)

Any thoughts for a noob from the pros out there would be most-appreciated! I'm open to any other brands that fit this price category. I've not found anything from the typical consumer brands (Polk, Pioneer, etc.) and most of the brands that offer component speakers are out of my price range (per the wife/CFO). This is the first time I've ever done my own door speaker install and the first time I've messed with a component speaker setup.

The Dayton 4” will not fit without cutting the door. The depth for the 4” is 1.75.


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[chemical_brother]

The Dayton 4” will not fit without cutting the door. The depth for the 4” is 1.75.


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I'm not OP, but am doing a build in the same car. Instead of the RS100, I've found a much more expensive solution in the Scanspeak Discovery 10F8424g from Madisound, at 1.57in or 40mm depth: Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8424G 4" Midrange 8 ohm

Has anyone else had luck with the Discovery or other drivers?

I already plan to use SEAS L18RNX/P as dedicated midbass.

 

[hankhowdy1]

In this car it would be best to cross the midrange as low as possible since the mid bass is so far back. This driver has a pretty low qts. I don’t know if you can get this driver to play down to 250hz with good output. Automotive drivers tend to have high qts in order to play in IB. If you happen to try them, please let us now.

I went with slim 4 inch Gladens. Still need to do my install.


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[scooterfrog]

The Dayton 4” will not fit without cutting the door. The depth for the 4” is 1.75.


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also note that rs100 is a small 4 inch. its 98mm on the outside of the frame, it almost fell into the hole i took my mini cooper speaker out of.

 

[hankhowdy1]

also note that rs100 is a small 4 inch. its 98mm on the outside of the frame, it almost fell into the hole i took my mini cooper speaker out of.

I’m not talking about it’s mounting position. The drive mounts to the door panel. There is a small space between the door panel and inner door skin. The space will accommodate about 1.75 inches. Any deeper you will need to cut the inner door skin, which is a shame since the door is sealed and really rigid already, VW makes a solid door.


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[scooterfrog]

sorry. not disagreeing, i was just saying it's a small 4 inch driver. the 4 inch i replaced in my door was 116 mm, didn thave an adaptor so i just used the frame from the old driver (broke out the cone) I need to make a new baffle and had these images close at hand
bmw mini maybe vw i

the RS is small across

 

[hankhowdy1]

sorry. not disagreeing, i was just saying it's a small 4 inch driver. the 4 inch i replaced in my door was 116 mm, didn thave an adaptor so i just used the frame from the old driver (broke out the cone) I need to make a new baffle and had these images close at hand
bmw mini maybe vw i
View attachment 274965
the RS is small across
View attachment 274964

The factory mid in my car actually measures 4.5 inches across and it has a 4 point mount.

Maybe the earlier models had a bigger driver than the later models like yours.

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[chemical_brother]

In this car it would be best to cross the midrange as low as possible since the mid bass is so far back. This driver has a pretty low qts. I don’t know if you can get this driver to play down to 250hz with good output. Automotive drivers tend to have high qts in order to play in IB. If you happen to try them, please let us now.

I went with slim 4 inch Gladens. Still need to do my install.


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Thanks for your input, @hankhowdy1. I'm looking forward to your experiences with the Gladens!

Depth being such an issue with midranges in the car had me jump for the Scans, as an opportunity in the Classifieds came up for the Scans shortly after my post in this thread, and delivery is pending. I will keep you all updated. Life is unpredictable right now.

I still have yet to decide on a DSP or DashMat texture that matches or complements the cornsilk beige interior. I think black Dashmat is the way to go, but Velour vs Suede vs Original is my question!

miniDSP 6x8 is what I'm leaning towards, I'm hoping it integrates with the stock radio well enough.

 

[hankhowdy1]

Thanks for your input, @hankhowdy1. I'm looking forward to your experiences with the Gladens!

Depth being such an issue with midranges in the car had me jump for the Scans, as an opportunity in the Classifieds came up for the Scans shortly after my post in this thread, and delivery is pending. I will keep you all updated. Life is unpredictable right now.

I still have yet to decide on a DSP or DashMat texture that matches or complements the cornsilk beige interior. I think black Dashmat is the way to go, but Velour vs Suede vs Original is my question!

miniDSP 6x8 is what I'm leaning towards, I'm hoping it integrates with the stock radio well enough.

Will the Mini correct any issues that the factory radio will put out, such as bass roll off or EQ spikes? Some DSPs can restore the input signal to a nice clean flat signal just like an aftermarket radio. If not, I would look into finding a DSP that will. It’s a must have feature when retaining a factory head unit and when SQ is the goal.


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[chemical_brother]

Will the Mini correct any issues that the factory radio will put out, such as bass roll off or EQ spikes? Some DSPs can restore the input signal to a nice clean flat signal just like an aftermarket radio. If not, I would look into finding a DSP that will. It’s a must have feature when retaining a factory head unit and when SQ is the goal.

That's a great point. After further reading finding that the stock radio puts out an inconsistent signal, and lacking rear view camera compatibility, I've decided to do get a Pioneer 4201NEX from classifieds.

There's so much info on which DSP's have more capable or easy-to-use software.

 

[hankhowdy1]

That's a great point. After further reading finding that the stock radio puts out an inconsistent signal, and lacking rear view camera compatibility, I've decided to do get a Pioneer 4201NEX from classifieds.

There's so much info on which DSP's have more capable or easy-to-use software.

Nice find.


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