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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
***Original thread can be found on the vwvortex forums, car audio subforum (I'd link to it if I could)***

I'll reiterate what I posted and what responses were to my thread:

*Setup is as follows:*
- Alpine CDA-105 headunit
- Kicker KS600 6-1/2" speakers (x4)
- OEM VW Premium sound (Monsoon) crossover amp (no idea on wattage or specs) for speakers + 4 OEM Monsoon (I presume) 1" tweeters (x4)
- Profile California 12000 2ch amp 1200W? (old school tech, mid-90s? Can't find a manufacturer's specification page for this amp) unconfirmed specs: 300W+ @4ohm, 450W+ @2ohm, 1000W+ @4ohm bridged
- 4ga power wire, 120amp fuse (I believe)
- Kicker Comp/VR 10" subs x2, SVC @4ohm ~300W? (not sure of the specific model, I know they're the same age as the amp, so mid-90s?)
- (not installed yet) Pioneer Champion Series 12" sub x1, DVC @2/4ohm 1200W max (model is: TS-W307D2)

- My audio setup was pieced together from friends and coworkers with cost being the biggest factor. Altogether my setup has cost me around $400 total.

- I have just acquired the Pioneer sub, and wish to run it in conjunction with my two 10" subs. The amp is 2ch and can output 2ohm on a single unbridged channel.

- I originally planned to build a sealed box out of 3/4" MDF to house all 3 subwoofers. Since posting my concerns to vortex, I've learned that I should probably seal the 12" off from the 10s, or build a completely separate box to house the 12".

- The reason for me wanting all these subs in my car is due to the fact that my 10s are not that good for low Hz. I recall one bass-inclined friend telling me when I bought my subs/amp that I had a much better higher frequency system. I want the 12" running as well because I wish to have bass response below 80Hz or so (not exactly sure where my subs bottom out at).

- Currently, the 10s are running ~300W each on separate channels. From discussion, the way I've been told to wire up these in conjunction with the 12" are as follows: parallel the 10s and run them to one channel and wire the 12" to the other channel on the 2ohm connection.


I was referred here by one of the vortex users who responded, and so I will ask the same questions:

- Is building a sealed box (with the 10s being sealed off from the 12") a good idea? Or would it be better to build a completely separate box for the 12"?

- I would assume that I won't need as much cubic space per sub* in the box for the 10" subs and if I recall correctly, the 12" required a full cubic foot. How much cubic feet should I aim for in the enclosure for the 10s and is a cubic foot minimum a good idea for the 12"? And I am correct in assuming this cubic space requirement can be any shape or size, so long as there is a cubic foot (or whatever) of air inside?

- Would you agree with the proposed way of wiring the subs?

- Anything else I have missed that I should look into?




If you've made it this far, congratulations for reading my novel. I appreciate insight and knowledge that helps make me a better at audio.
 

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Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, IMO better to have some tunes than nothing because your budget is small at the moment. You can find equipment cheap on CL, ebay, pawn shops, friends, etc and it can work as well as anything else.

Most people don't recommend running different subs together, they would say get another 12 for a pair and dump the 10s. I've done it and seen others, and it worked, but that was a long time ago lol and not like it was RTA'd or anything. Technically you should get more crossovers and run one sub lower and the other higher....not both off same amp at same frequency. However, never hurts to try you can change it later.

In that case I think your wiring is right and yes you have to put the 12 in a separate box no matter what you do with it. I would say build a ported you will get more bass, unless that is not recommended for the sub. If you don't have room then do sealed. If you intend for the 12 to play lower and 10s higher, then you could run the 10s in the minimum size box and the 12 build a larger than spec box to tune it lower. You should model it, the software is free. Because a spec box for the 12 might not play any lower than the 10s, it all depends on what the manufacturer tuned it at. If you build a ported that will be a little larger than a sealed, you can port it lower and will get the most low bass possible that way. Ported boxes are more efficient you get more for the same power input. Well, you could port the 10s too. If you beat them hard the sealed usually will handle more power or you have to run a subsonic filter so the ported does not unload under tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, that's exactly what I've done. My coworker sold me the 10s in the particleboard box with the amp for $75, I got the 12" for free and got the HU on sale lol. I'd sell the 10s but I figured that having a well balanced set up would be ideal.

I don't know about a ported box though.. as it stands with the box I have now, I have about half the trunk to put things.. I was hoping to build a taller box to house everything. If I must build a separate box for the 12" then I'll probably end up building a different one for the 10s too.

With a ported box (and I'm sure I could use a ported with the 12"), can the box be facing certain directions? I kinda like having my speakers facing into the seats (no chance of cargo ruining the sub face, rumble the backseat, etc).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So I'm running 4ohm bridged load into the single 12" on 2ohm. I built a sealed box and aimed to have 1.25 cu-ft interior airspace, I came very close I think. Now I'm not sure what's going on, but it seems my sub is being overpowered by my door speakers in 95% of songs. When I go 60/80/100 HPF, most of the bass drops. I can't feel the sub at all. That can't be right for a supposed 900W+ bridged amp. I've checked all my fuses and wires, all seems to be intact and using correct 12ga wire to the sub, etc. Only other place I haven't checked is the back of the HU..

Suggestions?
 

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It could be the sub I didn't look it up but some subs don't like to play low in 1.25cf. You can stuff it with poly a bag is $2 at walmart, the stuff you put in pillows. That might get you a little more but not a lot. It tends to take some higher bass out.

I'd say try it at 80hz and dial the gain up to balance it out, maybe even lower than 80 to force it to play. Most subs work the best aimed at the back bumper, but should work the other way and be close to same output. Is the sub moving?

How do you have it wired? You should run 4 ohms bridged, or 2 on each channel unless the amp is rated to run less. It may run it but could get hot or protect or some of them blow up. Should have more power that way if it does work.

There are piles of mid to cheaper subs out there that recommend a X cf box that is small, but then they sound like crap in it. If you play full range they sound like a midbass driver not a sub. That is why most people here model subs to know what they will do in X size box. They will handle more power in small box so less likely to blow, and manufacturers like that. I ran half a dozen different subs in a 1.25 sealed and ported and was not impressed at all. I had a mtx 4510 in a recommended .8cf that sounded better than all of the 12s, just goes to show. Sure the 10 had less output on the same amp but the tone was way nicer. Now some people like the spl sound buzzing at 50Hz and higher, some people might have a car with tons of cabin gain down there....but that was not me lol. So since I need all my trunk at times I said screw it and dropped quad 12s IB into the seat but that weighed a ton and no amp room, swapped to pair of 15 pyles and a new amp rack it works way nicer hardly takes any room, and fits about any amps I want to toss in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I got the cu-ft rating from a website that had the manufacturer's recommended air enclosure space size. sonixelectronics or something was the site.

I have some poly-fluffy stuff already inside the box.

I have the gain currently maxed out.. It's been maxed out for as long as I've had my amp.

I'm running bridged, 4ohm load to 2ohm on the sub. I could try going 2x450W @2ohm per channel to each voice coil? Or hook the wires up to each other? I'm not sure what works better (or whats safe).

The sub is facing into the seat, my gf has two of these exact subs in a custom box (and I have no idea what the cu-ft air space inside is) with no poly and hers sounds great (she also has a newer, mono amp rated at 1000W @2ohm) which are like mine and facing into the seat. Her's sounds great and are definitely working. I'm curious now if my HU isn't hooked up correctly..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I just figured it out.


It hit me that the other week when I was installing my fog lights, I had my battery undone. This set all my HU settings to factory... and one of them is the Subwoofer System setting, which I refer to it as the "comfort" setting. 1 (default) is much quieter while still retaining some subwoofer output, 2 is the full sound and fury which is what I normally roll around with (comfort for people in the backseat so I can talk to them :laugh:

Sure enough, it was on 1. I turned it to 2, now my amp is rattling on top of my sub box. Mission accomplished.


Of course I made the idiot mistake of not checking that all along lol.
 
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