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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi currently I use eton 3 way speaker on my Toyota set like this installed by the previous owner of the car
274290

I don’t really like non oem look and planning to move the mid to white circle and the tweeter to the red circle.

I don’t know much about car audio, I’m satisfied with the current sound quality but after looking through the internet it is said that moving the speaker off axis in this case the mid will lower the sound quality, some also said that installing a dsp would help maintain the sound quality, a few also said that upgrading head unit to kenwood ddx919ws would also help even though not as much as adding a dsp, my current head unit is kenwood ddx716wbt which only has crossover setting for 2 way, the ddx919ws has a crossover setting for 3 way

I’m not looking to upgrade the sound quality I just want to make it sound at least the same as right now after I move the speaker. By upgrading head unit I would also get newer feature like wireless Apple CarPlay. For the dsp I’m looking at the audison ap 8.9bit is it the right fit for my current setup ? The only change is the front speaker and under seat pioneer subwoofer

will a kenwood ddx919ws enough to maintain the quality ? or do i need a dsp ?

Here is manual for the headunit with the spec in the end

DDX716
DDX919

Thank you very much
 

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You could add one of the budget DSP'S, like a Dayton 408. Then you get good potential with limited money spent.
 

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You could add one of the budget DSP'S, like a Dayton 408. Then you get good potential with limited money spent.
And if it sounds good, then changing speaker position is a lot of work for little gain... and the headunit must be ok enough?
 
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
You could add one of the budget DSP'S, like a Dayton 408. Then you get good potential with limited money spent.
Dayton isn't available in my country but there is one with similar price.
What should i look when choosing a dsp ? do i need the one with built in power ? and for the power and processing channel how much do i need ? i have 6 speaker in front, 2 in the back and also an under seat sub
And if it sounds good, then changing speaker position is a lot of work for little gain... and the headunit must be ok enough?
I know i just want the factory looks..., my current headunit is enough for now, but according to this Video when the mid go over 4k hz the sound won't be good if it's off axis, and by limiting it to 4000 hz the placement of the mid won't be as important, with the 919ws it could be done because it has 3 way crossover, while the 716 only has 2 way crossover, and i'm not sure how to do that with the passive crossover included with the speaker.
 

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Moving the tweeter to the sail can reduce focus of the centre, moving the midrange off axis may reduce the detail and dynamics of the mid, they have been put in a vertical alignment because it’s perhaps the best way to put them to get a very focused centre image... you get a good centre from left and right cues, if those left and right cues come from the same point in space the centre from the mids locations and the centre of the tweeters location will be in the same place, moving speakers outboard can give differing reflections, this can make the centre worse and then you start having to play with reflections and moving speakers back and forth to get them balanced... putting the speakers in a vertical alignment is a good way to minimise the need for this, although that’s a hole new ball game when you start critically listening to individual speakers and seeing where they actually sound like they are to your brain 🙈
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Moving the tweeter to the sail can reduce focus of the centre, moving the midrange off axis may reduce the detail and dynamics of the mid, they have been put in a vertical alignment because it’s perhaps the best way to put them to get a very focused centre image... you get a good centre from left and right cues, if those left and right cues come from the same point in space the centre from the mids locations and the centre of the tweeters location will be in the same place, moving speakers outboard can give differing reflections, this can make the centre worse and then you start having to play with reflections and moving speakers back and forth to get them balanced... putting the speakers in a vertical alignment is a good way to minimise the need for this, although that’s a hole new ball game when you start critically listening to individual speakers and seeing where they actually sound like they are to your brain 🙈
Thank you for the explanation, the mid will pretty much fixed inside the dash, but the tweeter can be aimed for better imaging, do you think even with a dsp the imaging won't be as good as it is right now ?

At first i wanted to make a custom a pillar like my local audio store suggested but i'm afraid that it going to interfere with the curtain airbag and as i said before i want to make my dash looks clean. I think i'm going to try to move the speaker first then if the imaging suffer significantly i might consider making a custom pillar

Thank you
 

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..., but according to this Video when the mid go over 4k hz the sound won't be good if it's off axis, and by limiting it to 4000 hz the placement of the mid won't be as important, with the 919ws it could be done because it has 3 way crossover, while the 716 only has 2 way crossover, and i'm not sure how to do that with the passive crossover included with the speaker.
If you were able to measure it, then you could know whether it is a problem in your case.
 
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Thank you for the explanation, the mid will pretty much fixed inside the dash, but the tweeter can be aimed for better imaging, do you think even with a dsp the imaging won't be as good as it is right now ?

At first i wanted to make a custom a pillar like my local audio store suggested but i'm afraid that it going to interfere with the curtain airbag and as i said before i want to make my dash looks clean. I think i'm going to try to move the speaker first then if the imaging suffer significantly i might consider making a custom pillar

Thank you
A dsp can compensate for lots of things, and will doubtless improve the imaging and staging if you don’t have time alignment and parametric eq etc right now... a dsp can correct lots of things, but it’s very important to have the speakers in as best a location as you can and use the dsp as the icing on the cake...

curtain airbags are pretty much in the roof lining, they have a strap normally that goes down the pillar, but the clips on most pillars are designed to allow the a-pillar trim move away from the pillar metalwork a set distance if required in the event of an airbag going off

the location of the tweeter is just as important than aiming, but aiming also has a part to play incontrolling reflections (particularly the passenger side tweeter in the drivers window)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you were able to measure it, then you could know whether it is a problem in your case.
How do i measure it ? i'm new to audio, i think i'm just gonna go tomy local audio store and let them measure it

Thank you

A dsp can compensate for lots of things, and will doubtless improve the imaging and staging if you don’t have time alignment and parametric eq etc right now... a dsp can correct lots of things, but it’s very important to have the speakers in as best a location as you can and use the dsp as the icing on the cake...

curtain airbags are pretty much in the roof lining, they have a strap normally that goes down the pillar, but the clips on most pillars are designed to allow the a-pillar trim move away from the pillar metalwork a set distance if required in the event of an airbag going off

the location of the tweeter is just as important than aiming, but aiming also has a part to play incontrolling reflections (particularly the passenger side tweeter in the drivers window)
My current head unit has time alignment and eq, but not eq to individual speaker.

And for the tweeter placement where do you think is best ?
my interior looks like this
274385


i prefer it in the sail panel or maybe in the a pillar like this
1594876814864.png



And again thank you for your reply
 

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How do i measure it ? i'm new to audio, i think i'm just gonna go tomy local audio store and let them measure it

Thank you



My current head unit has time alignment and eq, but not eq to individual speaker.

And for the tweeter placement where do you think is best ?
my interior looks like this
View attachment 274385

i prefer it in the sail panel or maybe in the a pillar like this
View attachment 274384


And again thank you for your reply
Sail panel is preferable to cross firing in a pillars as you ruin the near side top end response due to beaming
 

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How do i measure it ? i'm new to audio, i think i'm just gonna go tomy local audio store and let them measure it

Thank you

...
Probably using a S/W app called REW (Room EQ Wizard).
A shop may do that for you, but maybe not.

At some point you will be using that tool, or one like it to tune your DSP and EQ it...
So it you did it first and life was grand, you do not need to get a DSP... and if it was not good, then you would know how much it needs to change to make it good,
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Sail panel is preferable to cross firing in a pillars as you ruin the near side top end response due to beaming
I will put the tweeter on the sail panel then, Thank you

Probably using a S/W app called REW (Room EQ Wizard).
A shop may do that for you, but maybe not.

At some point you will be using that tool, or one like it to tune your DSP and EQ it...
So it you did it first and life was grand, you do not need to get a DSP... and if it was not good, then you would know how much it needs to change to make it good,
Thank you i will try to find a usb microphone, the umik-1 is out of stock in my local store for now
 
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