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Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I will say from John's statement that delay steepens the phase response, if that's the correct appropriate terminology, I'm going to try different delay settings and play with incremental phase to see if I can make the subs and midbass have more "in-phase" bandwidth in their crossover region. Unfortunately no time to try this in room EQ wizard as it's not real time.


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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It's a great unit Scott, I think it would improve anyone's sound.......
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It's a great unit Scott, I think it would improve anyone's sound.......

Even mine right? LOL!!!!! But yeah what it's done for yours is amazing I have to admit.


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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It fixed problems I fought for several years using conventional tools to no avail.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Guys, try TDA APL for optimisation of TA. Believe me, nothing is more evident in results. Delays could be made just within apl techology pack. If you use ConneqC1, you are not limited more to 10-15 msec like other DSP's. Mine is more than 50 msec now for the front channels. It was necessary to keep everything comming simultaniously to the listening point.

Congratulations to subterFUSE. Great results.

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Looking around for what I can sell for the last bit of coin to put my order in. Lawn care? I can't part with my little JL 12TW1 but might have to.


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LOL, ive been reading and re reading this thread over the last couple of days, and im in the same boat...wondering how much of the stash i am willing to part with. Anyone want an ms8?
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Guys, try TDA APL for optimisation of TA. Believe me, nothing is more evident in results. Delays could be made just within apl techology pack. If you use ConneqC1, you are not limited more to 10-15 msec like other DSP's. Mine is more than 50 msec now for the front channels. It was necessary to keep everything comming simultaniously to the listening point.

Congratulations to subterFUSE. Great results.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk
I have TDA, and tried it a couple times with mixed results. I attribute the inconsistencies to the Operator (me), rather than the tool. I'm quite sure I certainly don't understand all that's going on in the software. TDA would be a very good candidate for in-depth youtube instructional video. I have no doubt that in the right hands, it can make alignment a very simple task. Reading over this doc again it's starting to make better sense.. The main measurement screen interface is where I got stuck last time though..
http://aplaudio.com/downloads/Introduction-to-TDA.pdf
http://aplaudio.com/downloads/TDA-Installation-and-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It could not be a mess if you place the mic at exactly the same position. Software interface is easy to understand. The latest versions give you more detailed information. So, what's the problem? My suggestion is not to move a mic if you play with TA settings or optimizing subwoofet location.

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Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It could not be a mess if you place the mic at exactly the same position. Software interface is easy to understand. The latest versions give you more detailed information. So, what's the problem? My suggestion is not to move a mic if you play with TA settings or optimizing subwoofet location.

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No problem really. Just need to practice with it. Mic for this would always be stationary at the headrest. And agreed, it's certainly easier than generating IR plots in Room EQ Wizard which requires a reference loop-back from the system or sound interface. And the visual plot it generates is by far easier to interpret, even for subwoofer timing which is sketchy at best if even possible with impulse response.


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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Congrats John! Apl for the win....lol. What did ya do, just correct the stage shift after the apl corrections? Well.....just remembered you stated you didn't have time to tell the whole story.......so it can wait....lol.

The only changes I made was to the EQ in the Helix DSP. The APL1 messed up the EQ balance left to right side, so I just went into the Helix and quickly fixed it so that the left and right speakers were playing equal.

Once I did that, my center image was perfect. Left side and Right side images were also perfect, and moved outside of the pillars to the side mirrors.

The left-center and right-center images were OK, but they did move around based on frequency. I attribute this to the passive crossover between the tweeter and midrange drivers, and the lack of independent EQ on them.


I'll post measurements when I can find the time.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

...
The left-center and right-center images were OK, but they did move around based on frequency. I attribute this to the passive crossover between the tweeter and midrange drivers, and the lack of independent EQ on them.


I'll post measurements when I can find the time.
I would think this is more due to the post APL EQ changes, it messed up the phase adjustments that the APL applied.
It's not a good habit to change again the pre-tune after APL, sure for quick test to mess around to get an idea but not for the final tune.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It's not a good habit to change again the pre-tune after APL, sure for quick test to mess around to get an idea but not for the final tune.

This is kinda my thinking, I don't change anything post apl, although if post apl shows problems, I'll bypass the apl, make corrections, then remeasure. This method has proven very effective for me. If anything is out of order, and I mean ANYTHING, the apl tune will make it stick out like a sore thumb........
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

When the apl works its magic does it lower your overall output or does it stay about the same? What kind of requirements does a laptop need to run the workshop software? I bought a very basic Dell laptop a while back just for tuning. When is the group buy happening for the software, apl, and 16 preset switch?!
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I would think this is more due to the post APL EQ changes, it messed up the phase adjustments that the APL applied.
It's not a good habit to change again the pre-tune after APL, sure for quick test to mess around to get an idea but not for the final tune.
Well I had to do this because the APL tune was so messed up.

I will show measurements to prove this later.


It was probably a mistake in the measurement process with APL Workshop that caused the problems. But I had only 30 minutes to fix the issue and did what I knew how to do with that short amount of time.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Well I had to do this because the APL tune was so messed up.

I will show measurements to prove this later.


It was probably a mistake in the measurement process with APL Workshop that caused the problems. But I had only 30 minutes to fix the issue and did what I knew how to do with that short amount of time.
And that says a lot the APL concept, you already won with a system that you think can still be improved!
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

This is kinda my thinking, I don't change anything post apl, although if post apl shows problems, I'll bypass the apl, make corrections, then remeasure. This method has proven very effective for me. If anything is out of order, and I mean ANYTHING, the apl tune will make it stick out like a sore thumb........
Agree! bad pre-tune stuff comes out even more.

I must add, a non perfect tune will already gain a lot with it, no need to chase the perfect pre-tune first.
But a bad one, like bad summing, wrong TA, beaming etc, then yes these issues will stand out even more. And they will become more visible on the SPFR measurements so easier to fix.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Well I had to do this because the APL tune was so messed up.

I will show measurements to prove this later.


It was probably a mistake in the measurement process with APL Workshop that caused the problems. But I had only 30 minutes to fix the issue and did what I knew how to do with that short amount of time.
Hey, it was crunch time, you had to do what you had to do! That stage was pretty skewed last I heard it. So fine job getting it touched up in time for the show the next day!
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

You guys are pointing out an issue I've seen with the APL1 and software. First, I haven't seen a prescriptive set of steps that should be performed to get a good tune. New people that buy the APL1 have to read through a huge thread and even then don't find clear, prescriptive instructions. It really shouldn't be this hard for a device that is purportedly easier to use than most DSPs. Second, the software packages shouldn't be separate, adds confusion, and I can't understand the value in having them separate. I think the hardware and software idea is great for the APL1 but if a few things were fixed, it really should be more popular than it is. And for a device that has been out this long, we should be talking about details of how to get a better tune or tweak it better, not "I'm not sure how to do this." I see potential in the APL1 but it has been frustrating watching it flounder when it shouldn't be but that is just my opinion. I'd like to point out that I have an APL1, two actually that I picked up from DIYMA members, but haven't had time to move my vehicle installs forward yet.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I will say, it isn't really a device for beginners......it is not an ms8, if you don't already have the skills necessary to make your system sing with a manual dsp, which is still required anyways, then the apl will be a disappointment to you. If, however you are an experienced tuner, and you know the time and difficulty that goes into a proper tune, this device is an amazing time saver, that just happens to use powerful tools and a proprietary measurement software that can fix things a typical dsp doesent have a chance at fixing. It also takes a bit of computer skill, but I'm living proof that that can be worked around. I'm not very good with computers in general, but there's enough info on this very thread, and the quick start guide to get ya there......
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I must add, a non perfect tune will already gain a lot with it, no need to chase the perfect pre-tune first.
My Miata is a good example of that.

You guys are pointing out an issue I've seen with the APL1 and software. First, I haven't seen a prescriptive set of steps that should be performed to get a good tune. New people that buy the APL1 have to read through a huge thread and even then don't find clear, prescriptive instructions. It really shouldn't be this hard for a device that is purportedly easier to use than most DSPs. Second, the software packages shouldn't be separate, adds confusion, and I can't understand the value in having them separate. I think the hardware and software idea is great for the APL1 but if a few things were fixed, it really should be more popular than it is. And for a device that has been out this long, we should be talking about details of how to get a better tune or tweak it better, not "I'm not sure how to do this." I see potential in the APL1 but it has been frustrating watching it flounder when it shouldn't be but that is just my opinion. I'd like to point out that I have an APL1, two actually that I picked up from DIYMA members, but haven't had time to move my vehicle installs forward yet.
Part of my struggle with it was that I didn't have a system that was complete enough to actually use it. Before actually firing it up, it was pretty difficult to wrap my head around how it works.

If your cars aren't complete enough to start tuning with it, then it might be worth it to set one up in the home, if you have the gear for it. It has a steep learning curve to setup and learn. But once you get part those two steps, actually tuning is super easy and fast.

I've started a new step-by-step PDF for it, but progress will be slow as I have a ton of administrative stuff to catch up on with the tour. In the meantime, the guide I posted in this thread should get you started.
 
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