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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Thanks Lumberman. I could use them in the house but don't have time for that either so they sit on a shelf until I can one day get to them. My rant really wasn't about me, I'm just a little surprised to continue to see these sorts of discussions with something that has been out as long as it has. If Raimonds or someone he paid (or anyone) put together the sort of step by step you mention, I think the APL1 could take off and show its power. And that means it should be linked to and documented on the official site, not buried on page 20(?) of a thread. But again, a rant for a product that I think could be great and would like to see it thrive better. Then again, I could say the same about my own business that I'm trying to take care of a myriad of details behind the scenes so I know it isn't necessarily easy but it is necessary for the requisite success to happen.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Guys I really feel like this thread is getting more obscure and obscure.
Just too many people talk about it, without having TRIED it once.
I don't understand, if I put one ground in something I wanna test it :p
Everything is here, at least 90%, and the rest you'll learn yourself or get it from Raimonds directly.
Start to play with the device like said LumbermanSVO.
If I was able to do it, everybody can do it, and I'm not joking, I'm pretty lazy and dumb.
Sure it could be better but at least try the first step! It won't kill your drivers, it's a DIY site or not?
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

To be fair this is quite a complicated software to install and use. But then again the results it gets even if you spend 5 mins following the instructions blindly is fantastic! I cant imagine what I will end up as I continue to learn and tweak the tune and options.

On the other hand, the customer support response is FANTASTIC! I have to say I never had faster replies to my email questions in my life. Basically all questions are responded to the same day or next day latest. You will even get responses on most weekends. They even offer to do a remote desktop to help if you continue to have issues.

It has come to a stage that I cannot imagine not having a APL1 in my car system. Listening to it in bypass is just wrong.

I for one am glad I persisted in getting this to work in my setup.



You guys are pointing out an issue I've seen with the APL1 and software. First, I haven't seen a prescriptive set of steps that should be performed to get a good tune. New people that buy the APL1 have to read through a huge thread and even then don't find clear, prescriptive instructions. It really shouldn't be this hard for a device that is purportedly easier to use than most DSPs. Second, the software packages shouldn't be separate, adds confusion, and I can't understand the value in having them separate. I think the hardware and software idea is great for the APL1 but if a few things were fixed, it really should be more popular than it is. And for a device that has been out this long, we should be talking about details of how to get a better tune or tweak it better, not "I'm not sure how to do this." I see potential in the APL1 but it has been frustrating watching it flounder when it shouldn't be but that is just my opinion. I'd like to point out that I have an APL1, two actually that I picked up from DIYMA members, but haven't had time to move my vehicle installs forward yet.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Since I have no time, I'll bow out of this discussion as has been suggested. I'll just say that having kept up with this thread, I see a recurring theme of basic issues, which tells me something is missing. I'm excited about the capabilities I know are there from understanding the underlying and impressive technology. I see great potential but like I said, I'm out since I just have the hardware but no time to actually put it to use at this point in time. Wish you guys the best that have time to work with this incredible piece of equipment and software.

--David
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

To be fair this is quite a complicated software to install and use. But then again the results it gets even if you spend 5 mins following the instructions blindly is fantastic! I cant imagine what I will end up as I continue to learn and tweak the tune and options.

On the other hand, the customer support response is FANTASTIC! I have to say I never had faster replies to my email questions in my life. Basically all questions are responded to the same day or next day latest. You will even get responses on most weekends. They even offer to do a remote desktop to help if you continue to have issues.

It has come to a stage that I cannot imagine not having a APL1 in my car system. Listening to it in bypass is just wrong.

I for one am glad I persisted in getting this to work in my setup.

I have to agree with ya on this, Raimonds is always quick to respond, and great about answering questions! All my answers have come the same day as well, weekends included......
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

To be fair this is quite a complicated software to install and use. But then again the results it gets even if you spend 5 mins following the instructions blindly is fantastic! I cant imagine what I will end up as I continue to learn and tweak the tune and options.

On the other hand, the customer support response is FANTASTIC! I have to say I never had faster replies to my email questions in my life. Basically all questions are responded to the same day or next day latest. You will even get responses on most weekends. They even offer to do a remote desktop to help if you continue to have issues.

It has come to a stage that I cannot imagine not having a APL1 in my car system. Listening to it in bypass is just wrong.

I for one am glad I persisted in getting this to work in my setup.

I have to agree here, Raimonds customer support is spectacular, with email responses always being rapid, and yer right, weekends as well! I too can't imagine my system at this point without an apl in the mix, it's definitely secured a spot in my car stereo world as vital.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It could not be a mess if you place the mic at exactly the same position. Software interface is easy to understand. The latest versions give you more detailed information. So, what's the problem? My suggestion is not to move a mic if you play with TA settings or optimizing subwoofet location.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk
Now that I finally got APL1 installed and working fine with a few tunes that I like. I would like to start working on TDA. Is this the right way to go about it?

1. Run TDA without APL or APL in bypass.

2. Get all drivers as close as possible in TA/Group delay.

3. Do APL tune.

4. Rerun TDA to see what the TA/GD looks like.

5. Make changes to TA using your DSP to see if you can get it aligned even better?

In my case I do not have a sub. Just a 3 ways active.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Thanks Lumberman. I could use them in the house but don't have time for that either so they sit on a shelf until I can one day get to them. My rant really wasn't about me, I'm just a little surprised to continue to see these sorts of discussions with something that has been out as long as it has. If Raimonds or someone he paid (or anyone) put together the sort of step by step you mention, I think the APL1 could take off and show its power. And that means it should be linked to and documented on the official site, not buried on page 20(?) of a thread. But again, a rant for a product that I think could be great and would like to see it thrive better. Then again, I could say the same about my own business that I'm trying to take care of a myriad of details behind the scenes so I know it isn't necessarily easy but it is necessary for the requisite success to happen.
Honestly, I wanted to make a similar rant for awhile. I'd read this whole thread, and all the other APL threads, multiple times. I had the software and hardware, but it was still confusing. It wasn't until I actually had the APL1 in the signal chain that it started making sense. From there I only had a few more questions and I was comfortable enough to get a good tune. Once I heard the difference it made, I knew I had to make some sort of tutorial.

So hang in there, and feel free to ask questions when you finally have the time to tinker with it.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Honestly, I wanted to make a similar rant for awhile. I'd read this whole thread, and all the other APL threads, multiple times. I had the software and hardware, but it was still confusing. It wasn't until I actually had the APL1 in the signal chain that it started making sense. From there I only had a few more questions and I was comfortable enough to get a good tune. Once I heard the difference it made, I knew I had to make some sort of tutorial.

So hang in there, and feel free to ask questions when you finally have the time to tinker with it.
Great to hear. And I'm not trying to be negative although I am, it is in my nature. I'm a consultant but even when I came out of school, I would look at something and start tearing it apart. For a while I just thought I was negative but I soon learned it was in my nature to look for problems and ways to solve them. So really, I'm not bashing or anything like that, I just see great potential in Raimond's hardware and software and hope that it is realized. I look forward to your tutorial but I'm so busy right now, I wish I had time to think about using it.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

You guys are pointing out an issue I've seen with the APL1 and software. First, I haven't seen a prescriptive set of steps that should be performed to get a good tune. New people that buy the APL1 have to read through a huge thread and even then don't find clear, prescriptive instructions. It really shouldn't be this hard for a device that is purportedly easier to use than most DSPs. Second, the software packages shouldn't be separate, adds confusion, and I can't understand the value in having them separate. I think the hardware and software idea is great for the APL1 but if a few things were fixed, it really should be more popular than it is. And for a device that has been out this long, we should be talking about details of how to get a better tune or tweak it better, not "I'm not sure how to do this." I see potential in the APL1 but it has been frustrating watching it flounder when it shouldn't be but that is just my opinion. I'd like to point out that I have an APL1, two actually that I picked up from DIYMA members, but haven't had time to move my vehicle installs forward yet.
The main reason that software package is sold separately is that the whole concept was intended to be used by tuning workshops. One set of the software should be bought for themselfes, hardware boxes (apl1) - for their custommers. On the other hand, the apl technology could be used for carPC or other systems based on Windows and Android. In these cases hardware is not needed. One can use more cheap vst plugin or irs-files for the convolver.

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Ok. Here are my Left speaker only, TDA plot, GDR, DFR with apl in bypass and apl tune. The plots for some reasons does not seem to have improved much. But the sound is pretty fantastic. It sounds like I have added a subwoofer. Mid bass punch is great. Tonality esp guitars strums and plucks is just crazily good.

However, I am still not seeing why it does not seem to be improving my plots much. I would have thought that it would show much after with the tune in place. Any ideas?

Also let me know if I can further improve my TA with APL in bypass.

Thanks!
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Nice, the tda plot seems much cleaner on midbass.
Where do you cross everything? And did you spend some time on your Ta with TdA before the APL? You can use a shorter scale like 5 or 10ms total to get a precise view.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It seems that you ought to do more precise TA before apl run. The graphs show that a little delay of midbass compared to the tweeter might be needed, but down to appr. 500 Hz is not so critical for a human far if it is less 2 msec.

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Nice, the tda plot seems much cleaner on midbass.
Where do you cross everything? And did you spend some time on your Ta with TdA before the APL? You can use a shorter scale like 5 or 10ms total to get a precise view.
My crossovers are 250hz for my woofers, 250hz and 3500hz for my mids and 3500hz for my tweeters. I did TA for my system with APL in bypass. Raimonds, did tell me LR24 would have a 0.14ms delay on my mids and 2ms for my woofercompared to my tweeter. So I guess I could improve a little on my mids by reducing around 2ms delay.


It seems that you ought to do more precise TA before apl run. The graphs show that a little delay of midbass compared to the tweeter might be needed, but down to appr. 500 Hz is not so critical for a human far if it is less 2 msec.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk
When you say delay of midbass. Do you mean the mid bass needs to be a little more delayed? Mid bass as in the woofer?
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So am I understanding correct you need to buy the apl-1 and the software?
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So am I understanding correct you need to buy the apl-1 and the software?

If you have a android base Head unit or play your music from a android player, you would only need to get the software.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

My crossovers are 250hz for my woofers, 250hz and 3500hz for my mids and 3500hz for my tweeters. I did TA for my system with APL in bypass. Raimonds, did tell me LR24 would have a 0.14ms delay on my mids and 2ms for my woofercompared to my tweeter. So I guess I could improve a little on my mids by reducing around 2ms delay.




When you say delay of midbass. Do you mean the mid bass needs to be a little more delayed? Mid bass as in the woofer?
I did not know that you have 3-way system. It seems that a sound from the tweeter comming earlier that from your mid. 2 msec less delay for a mid would be fine as a starting point. You definitely have some problems between 150-510 Hz. Could be of a modal character due to placement and orientation of the loudspeakers. Can you show afr graph? Do you have peaks at the same frequencies on the amplitude plot?

Ideally your dfr curve should be as close to gdr as possible, as I undesrstood it correct.

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Hi Friends,

I must explain Oliver`s case:

Ok. Here are my Left speaker only, TDA plot, GDR, DFR with apl in bypass and apl tune. ....
....
Also let me know if I can further improve my TA with APL in bypass.

Thanks!
The IR and TDA image is highly disturbed by pretty large distance from loudspeakers and they directivity side lobes. That is causing situation when reflected side lobes are stronger then direct sound and they are causing some kind of mess in IR and TDA image. This mess can not be improved by any kind of electronics. It can be improved only by change of drivers and its placement much closely to a listener (mic).
Same time, it is possible to find better place for mic just by changing its place by few centimeters to improve TDA image for particular measurement and make it more usable for time alignment.
You must use GDR with "subtract minimum phase" and try to see the earliest undisturbed parts of GDR. It requires some skills.
You must take into account that particular time alignment is just for one mic placement(listening position) also, for car environment where loudspeakers of "ways" are placed in different positions.
It is almost impossible to see the timing improvement of APL`s equalizer work in such "mess" also.
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

If it works on android how does MECA check stock class competitors if they are using the software or for that matter since the competitors can provide their own digital files they arent using that music manipulator software?
 

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Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It is not a manipulator. It is sound reproduktion improver, which every manufactorer of OEM Hu must have in their basic setups. It is a killer for DSP market, as I can see. Thats why so high resistance from this industry.

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